Cheating in School

[Phi for All]

Is it ever justifiable to cheat on work assigned to you in school? Is it more justifiable in public school than in college? Are tests different than other assignments when it comes to cheating? Are some methods of cheating more justifiable than others?

[Dudde]

the only real moral issue is of stealing the hard work that someone else does to know and complete the required information - I think after that, cheating is really just cheating yourself.

 

If I copied off my neighbor in a computer class (assuming they knew what they were doing) and applied for the position I have now, I would've been fired within a week for incompetence, and I think a majority of higher education positions are like that

[ecoli]

Since I'm applying to grad schools now, I realize how easy it would be to lie on my application, maybe even send in my own recommendation letters under professor's names. They don't really check up on this stuff.

 

You couldn't lie about GRE scores of transcripts, but you could definitely pad up your resume. In a 30 minute interview, as long as you got all your bases covered, no one would ever know.

[Phi for All]

In a 30 minute interview, as long as you got all your bases covered, no one would ever know.

Is that a justification for cheating?

[CharonY]

I realize how easy it would be to lie on my application, maybe even send in my own recommendation letters under professor's names. They don't really check up on this stuff.

Ugh. That is a way to get kicked out. It is not that people do not talk to each other, you know?

[ecoli]

Is that a justification for cheating?

 

not one that I would use, but it could be.

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Ugh. That is a way to get kicked out. It is not that people do not talk to each other, you know?

 

Right... but even stretching the truth? I did a summer research program 4 years ago in a foreign country. Is anybody really going to check if I was actually for 3 months (as opposed to the truth, 1 month)?

 

Would anyone check up on my 1000 hours of community service (that was actually only 500 hours??)

__

So if I wrote a letter under a professor's name, say a prof I had in a class with 1000 other students, even if the grad school called him to check up, so he doesn't remember writing the letter, he's a busy person, w/e. I would never do this, but I'm just saying I think it could plausibly work.

Edited March 11, 2010 by ecoli
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[CharonY]

1) if you are one of 1000 unmemorable students the letter is worthless to begin with

2) you underestimate the ability of people to recognize their own writing plus rarely does one write out hundreds of those per semester.

3) you assume that you only have to get by the admission center. However, you forget that you will at some point join a group. The group leader/prof may also get to see your letter (especially if he/she is not desperate for bodies). And he/she may know the other guy. If the letter is well forged but not memorable it goes back to 1) if it is not well forged both will be furious (I know I would).

For the minute advantage one may or may not gain the risks involved are tremendous.

[ecoli]

1) if you are one of 1000 unmemorable students the letter is worthless to begin with

2) you underestimate the ability of people to recognize their own writing plus rarely does one write out hundreds of those per semester.

3) you assume that you only have to get by the admission center. However, you forget that you will at some point join a group. The group leader/prof may also get to see your letter (especially if he/she is not desperate for bodies). And he/she may know the other guy. If the letter is well forged but not memorable it goes back to 1) if it is not well forged both will be furious (I know I would).

For the minute advantage one may or may not gain the risks involved are tremendous.

 

So I'm guessing you consider this a non-justifiable form of cheating. What if I'm only doing it to make for being a disadvantaged applicant? (like applying to Med school, where you chances of getting accepted with lower grades is much much higher if you're an underrepresented minority student)?

[Mr Skeptic]

Is it ever justifiable to cheat on work assigned to you in school? Is it more justifiable in public school than in college? Are tests different than other assignments when it comes to cheating? Are some methods of cheating more justifiable than others?

 

While it may be justifiable to cheat, those for whom that would be true would also have no need to cheat and would know better than to try. I suppose a retarded teacher giving really long and useless busywork would be a case where I'd consider it justifiable, if still unwise. Even so, the proper course of action would be to try to get said teacher replaced. I'm guessing that in the US some public school teachers would be like this but un-fireable.

[Dudde]

While it may be justifiable to cheat, those for whom that would be true would also have no need to cheat and would know better than to try. I suppose a retarded teacher giving really long and useless busywork would be a case where I'd consider it justifiable, if still unwise. Even so, the proper course of action would be to try to get said teacher replaced. I'm guessing that in the US some public school teachers are exactly like this but un-fireable.

 

caught a typo for ya

 

I remember having all these great teachers growing up, all the way through highschool - graduated 2003, so not that long ago. However, I've had to talk with several of my younger brothers' teachers (he's 17) and never had I wanted to punch someone to make them shutup and listen more

[ecoli]

Looks like this answers my question, somewhat: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/education/18brfs-STUDENTACCUS_BRF.html?ref=todayspaper

[Double K]

I remember in school having a teacher whom I suspected of marking me more harshly than other students. Who knows their reasoning. To test the theory, I had another teacher regrade my assignments for me and the grades varied significantly. My final test was to use a magazine article (it was simply a creative writing assignment) instead of my own work. She again marked me very low. I didn't ever go to her and let her know, but after, knew in my own mind for sure that she was not marking fairly, for whatever reason.

[Severian]

Cheating is always wrong and never justified.

[Pangloss]

Given how prevalent it is, the real dilemma on cheating seems to be what to do when it occurs. Options range from nothing to expulsion from the school, but there's a whole range in-between and school policies vary. My school's policy is particularly vague and rests heavily on the instructor, falling under the auspices of "academic freedom", but I think that's a bit of a cop-out because it means inconsistency and it produces situations where the school has to question the instructor's actions.

 

The best I've been able to accomplish with it is to clearly state my policy in my syllabi and go over it the first day, pointing out the fact that it may not be the same as other instructors' policies, but that I will apply it regardless. Then I make sure that I'm consistent in applying it.

 

For what it's worth, my policy is failure on the assignment/exam the first time, then failure for the course if it happens again. I think it's very lenient, but it protects me from cases of mistaken judgment. A lot of times I don't have a whole lot to go on, but I have to make a call anyway, and this is another subject worthy of discussion -- detecting when cheating has taken place, which is often quite difficult.

 

I just had a case with a final exam. Part of it was a practical test in which they had to construct a Flash project according to some instructions. There was an artistic component that called for them to use images pertaining to a certain subject. Two students turned in Flash files that were identical -- same images, same code, same sequence, everything exactly the same. I failed both exams, but they both got passing grades for the course because none of their other work was duplicated. I hate it because it feels like they're still kinda getting away with it, but the course is over and I'm sitting here grading these at home, unable to talk to them or examine the classroom -- for all I know it could be a portal problem or just a bizarre technical error. But I had to make a decision, I had to make it right then, and so I simply went with my policy, because that's what I have in my syllabus.

 

Cheating seems so simple in theory, but in practice it can be quite complicated. And it raises a lot of ethical questions for teachers, too -- not just students.

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By the way, I see cases of cheating every quarter. Often multiple cases, and one quarter I had no less than five instances of it spread across my classes.

 

I think the problem is a lot more common than a lot of people believe.

[Mr Rayon]

If I find a away to cheat and get away with it, I would. But this requires the correct amount of motivation, so only for important possibly life-changing tests that aren't conducted properly.

[DJBruce]

I honestly believe that cheating is wrong, however, the problem I have is what exactly justifies cheating. There are incidents that are blatantly cheating and others, which are less so. Some examples of the incidents where I find it difficult to decern whether it is cheating or not include:

 

- A practice test is given for a class to be done for completion credit. Meaning the teacher simply asks if you did it or not. Would it be cheating if you said you completed the test, but you completed it by simply guessed through out the entire test.

 

-A teacher for my honors English course used to give use a weekly set of analogies. These were to be done at home, and she stated we could use what ever reference material we wished. Well at some point during the class someone while using Google to research a question came across the answer key to all of the analogy assignments for the entire year. Would using and distributing these answer keys be considered cheating even though the teacher allowed the class to use the internet for research purposes?

 

-For my Orgo course someone discovered a website which contained a bank of questions and answers from the material we were studying. Many of these identical questions appeared verbatim on the exams. Would using this be considered cheating?

 

So what would be your guys feelings on these situations? Cheating or Not??

[DrDNA]

I honestly believe that cheating is wrong, however, the problem I have is what exactly justifies cheating.

Nothing.

 

There are incidents that are blatantly cheating and others, which are less so. Some examples of the incidents where I find it difficult to decern whether it is cheating or not include:

Cheating is analogous to lying.

A person knows when they are lying or they are withhold all or some part of the truth for personal gain.

Same goes for cheating.

 

- A practice test is given for a class to be done for completion credit. Meaning the teacher simply asks if you did it or not. Would it be cheating if you said you completed the test, but you completed it by simply guessed through out the entire test.

Yes.

And you are actually cheating yourself the most.

 

- -A teacher for my honors English course used to give use a weekly set of analogies. These were to be done at home, and she stated we could use what ever reference material we wished. Well at some point during the class someone while using Google to research a question came across the answer key to all of the analogy assignments for the entire year. Would using and distributing these answer keys be considered cheating even though the teacher allowed the class to use the internet for research purposes?

Yes.

And as above, you are cheating yourself.

What did you deprive yourself of by doing this?

 

- -For my Orgo course someone discovered a website which contained a bank of questions and answers from the material we were studying. Many of these identical questions appeared verbatim on the exams. Would using this be considered cheating?

Yes.

What have you learned?

 

So what would be your guys feelings on these situations? Cheating or Not??

 

Trust your instincts...as opposed to your desires.

 

You suspected that each of these situations were cheating or you would not have asked.

 

If it feels dirty, it is most likely dirty.

[Mr Skeptic]

Cheating in school allows you to trade integrity and learning, for higher scores (if you don't get caught) and experience at nefarious activities. It's a poor tradeoff unless you want to grow up to be a con artist or something.

[D'Nalor]

Do you think that study is cheating? after all, you are supposed to know the all stuff before the exam. If you need to study, you don't know it well enough, and if you don't know it well enough, you're going to forget it. there isn't really much point in learning the stuff if you just forget it afterwards, so I think study is sort of cheating. maybe it is merely legalised cheating. of course, I don't study myself and get high marks, so maybe that's just me descriminating against dumb people.

[pioneer]

Somewhere along the line, character went away. A person of character would not cheat even if it would help them look better. A person who is a character (pretender) is all about appearances; actor playing a role. For those who don't know what character is, here is a summary.

 

Trustworthiness

Be honest • Don’t deceive, cheat or steal • Be reliable — do what you say you’ll do • Have the courage to do the right thing • Build a good reputation • Be loyal — stand by your family, friends and country

 

Respect

Treat others with respect; follow the Golden Rule • Be tolerant of differences • Use good manners, not bad language • Be considerate of the feelings of others • Don’t threaten, hit or hurt anyone • Deal peacefully with anger, insults and disagreements

 

Responsibility

Do what you are supposed to do • Persevere: keep on trying! • Always do your best • Use self-control • Be self-disciplined • Think before you act — consider the consequences • Be accountable for your choices

 

Fairness

Play by the rules • Take turns and share • Be open-minded; listen to others • Don’t take advantage of others • Don’t blame others carelessly

 

Caring

Be kind • Be compassionate and show you care • Express gratitude • Forgive others • Help people in need

 

Citizenship

Do your share to make your school and community better • Cooperate • Get involved in community affairs • Stay informed; vote • Be a good neighbor • Obey laws and rules • Respect authority • Protect the environment

[DJBruce]

Somewhere along the line, character went away. A person of character would not cheat even if it would help them look better. A person who is a character (pretender) is all about appearances; actor playing a role. For those who don't know what character is, here is a summary.

 

I do not think that character went away. There has been cheating forever, and cheating will continue to exist forever. Looking back and saying in the past there were more people with character I believe is a fallacy, similar to claiming that our society is doomed to moral decline.

 

As for DrDNA's analysis, yes in those situations the person doing them, I did not say I myself participated in them, is losing something for themselves, but they are not explicitly or even intentionally breaking the rules. They are in the two final cases simply using every resource to their advantage.

[DrDNA]

Looking back and saying in the past there were more people with character I believe is a fallacy, similar to claiming that our society is doomed to moral decline.

 

Interesting point.

Do you believe that our society is not in moral decline?

[Mr Skeptic]

Interesting point.

Do you believe that our society is not in moral decline?

 

I believe morals change. Old folks will decry this as moral decline, modern folks might likewise consider the old ways immoral and/or barbaric (slavery, discrimination based on race, discrimination based on sexual orientation, etc).

[DrDNA]

Do you think that study is cheating? after all, you are supposed to know the all stuff before the exam. If you need to study, you don't know it well enough, and if you don't know it well enough, you're going to forget it. there isn't really much point in learning the stuff if you just forget it afterwards, so I think study is sort of cheating. maybe it is merely legalised cheating. of course, I don't study myself and get high marks, so maybe that's just me descriminating against dumb people.

 

I absolutely do not agree with you.

 

1. Studying generally refers to learning subject matter in a quest for understanding.

The level of understanding may be quantified, for example, on an exam.

 

2. Studying in this context is not just simply memorizing the relatively small amount of information that is only on any given, specific exam.

 

If your educational system is promoting the later and not the former, then you need to seriously consider changing schools and fast.....'cause you ain't gettin squat......and neither am I if your eduction is publicly funded by tax dollars.

[DJBruce]

I absolutely do not agree with you.

 

1. Studying generally refers to learning subject matter in a quest for understanding.

The level of understanding may be quantified, for example, on an exam.

 

2. Studying in this context is not just simply memorizing the relatively small amount of information that is only on any given, specific exam.

 

If your educational system is promoting the later and not the former, then you need to seriously consider changing schools and fast.....'cause you ain't gettin squat......and neither am I if your eduction is publicly funded by tax dollars.

 

Like it or not America's educational system, at least k-12 education, is very much promoting the later. I definitely agree that this is not a good educational system, but when a student is part of a flawed system can you really fault them for following it.

 

Interesting point.

Do you believe that our society is not in moral decline?

 

Yes I believe our society is not in moral decline. It seems to me that if our society was truly in moral decline, which has been claimed for a long long time, we would fail to exist as a functioning society. If we look through time I believe its obvious that our morals have not declined, but have simply changed as Mr. Skeptic points out. If we take a brief stroll through history lets see what at different times we viewed as acceptable.

 

Roman Era: Slavery, Persecution of Christians, Public Slaughter for Entertainment.

Middle Ages: Torture and Execution due to the Inquisition.

Colonial: Mass Genocide of Native Peoples, Slavery, Unequal treatment of Women and most other minority groups.

Early 1900's: Racism, Sexism, Intentional Killing of Civilians during war.

2010- More Gender and Ethnic Tolerance, Outrage over Civilian Casualties.

 

This debate reminds me of this comic.