Artificial Intelligence

[blike]

Will science ever create A.I. more intelligent than ourselves?

[5614]

NO, it is impossible to program or make something which is more intelligent than us because it will be based on our knowledge........

[an obvious overlooked fact]

 

you cant create something more clever than you, if it is based on your brain!!!!!

 

but it is highly possible to have AI which thinks quicker, that is possible, already, computer calculators are quicker than humans! just not cleverer, because it was based on be-known knowledge!

[pulkit]

If it ever happens, I do not see it happening in the next half century atleast.

[blike]

you cant create something more clever than you, if it is based on your brain!!!!!

 

But that limitation is easily overcome if we can program something that can learn and apply knowledge like we can.

[pulkit]

It is possible to make things "clever". The fact is that it is extremely difficult. At the present moment we probably can mimic the comprehension of a human a few months old. But if you have ever worked on the problem of comprehension(natural language processing), you will have realized, it is an extremely difficult thing to do.

[LucidDreamer]

In the 50's people saw machines that were capable of calculating numbers more efficiently then we could and they thought artificial intelligence was just around the corner. 50 years later, we are no closer to realizing this. We can't even program artificial intelligence capable of mimicking the intelligence of an ant.

 

Truth is that we don't even understand how intelligence works. We are still a long way away from figuring out how all the neurons, glial cells, and neurotransmitters work together to make creativity, memory, logic, etc. Until we understand how our own brains work we will not be able to create anything as intelligent as ourselves. Besides, by the time that we figure out how our brains really do work biochemistry and genetics will have advanced to the point that we will probably use organics to create intelligence instead of machines. I would put money on mankind genetically engineering a chimpanzee with our intelligence before programming a computer with it.

[Sayonara]

50 years later, we are no closer to realizing this. We can't even program artificial intelligence capable of mimicking the intelligence of an ant.

Ants don't display intelligence, they only react to stimuli.

 

The reason we cannot simulate an ant is not because we lack the technology - it's actually quite easy to do (ignoring species differences).

We can't do it yet because we don't have a complete map of an ant's behaviour.

[jordan]

I'm really unsure whether we could program something more inteligent than ourselves. The main reason is that I don't see exactly how much more we have to learn. Who knows, we could be very far off on everything, but that seems unlikely. More likely, we know most of the stuff that AI could ever teach intself. What's left (for example, what happen in a black hole?) would be pretty innacessable to both sides. I think we could very well create AI capable of learning what we know in a much shorter time frame. It's taken us thousands of years to get to where we are. I think we could program something to do it much quicker. I hope that makes sense.

[Jonfraz]

Programs that evolve on their own are the only conceivable way of having AI which is more intelligent than humans

[NavajoEverclear]

that depends on what you mean by intelligence. It will be DIFFERENT because our intelligence has come about through evolution, we aren't even totally sure of our own abilities. The abilities of the A.I. will be more measurable. I just hope some retard doesn't invent something capable of killing us all. I bet you we have the technology now to make such an error. At the time what we create might not be able to sustain itself after we're gone, but it would be rather simple to create effective killing machines that slaughter at lightening speed, and a too stealthy to be destroyed before its too late.

 

I have faith that there will always be a few smart people around to have a backdoor save our butts plan for avoiding extinction when the idiots screw up. Hopefully we'll think long and hard before giving A.I. very much power in our lives.

I think it would be more beneficial to the preservation of our race to learn how to be self sufficient without being slaves to machines we cant completely control (or if we give them contol/life, not give it such a degree as to jepordize our own existence

[5614]

i still think that YOU cannot create something cleverer than yourself, as it would be based on you:-

 

unless: you taught it stuff, and other people taught it stuff, and then it would be as clever as multiple people combined, it would be cleverer than one individual, but at the same time, there is only a certain amount one can program into a robot, think of everything you know, then multiply it by the number of ppl the robot will think like! its soooooo much info, it would take years to program it all!

 

plus, its one thing doing something biologically, there is no limit, in a sense

 

but there is a limit to how much one can program into a robot! and i think that to make a robot significantly cleverer than us, would be tooo much!!

 

sure you could make it cleverer than ur average class working man, but it would be based on one, or a few people, and there are things that those people wont know, and that will be a floor for the robots inteligence, if you see what i mean!

 

unless you program everyone, in the worlds brain into a robot, there will still be some things it doesnt know!

 

this is all based on pre-known knowledge, as well:-

 

and quite how you could program something to invent something new, like an Einstein Bot V1.2 or sumin! who knows

 

its one thing program already known stuff, but whats the point?????? you need it to invent, be creative, think for itself, and thats beyond our program capabilities...

[NavajoEverclear]

That really depends on what you mean by clever. Clever applies to humans, the robots we make probably would NOT be improved versions of humans, they would not think LIKE humans. so you cant really compare them to humans. Like other animals to humans, humans are smart at what we do, but animals are efficient at what THEY do. More so than we would be in their job. The robot's intelligence is mathmatical basically, depending on the purpose of the robot, brilliance is more a matter of speed in operating a few simple strategies. Robots manage speed very easily if they are programed to.

 

So clever depends on how you apply it. It would be much more complex to create a robot capable of carrying competant conversation. So if this is the kind of clever you are talking about, I would agree that we do not have the power to make a machine that rivals our capabilites. Why would you want to? there are plenty of people around to have conversations and such with.

 

But if you were speaking of military cleverness, i would dissagree, it is simply a matter of the money needed to create such powerful machines, but I think the programs to run them would be relatively simple. Everything is simple if you break it down. It just the building up of many simple things that makes something complex. And electronic circuits are more stable than our brains, so in their programmed abilities, it would be very simple to make a robot more effecient than us at a particular task. I would not call this cleverness, cause they do only what they are programed to do.

[jordan]

i still think that YOU cannot create something cleverer than yourself, as it would be based on you

You are right, but that's not AI. AI would be YOU creating something that has the ability to MAKE ITSELF more inteligent than you. (Substituted caps for italics just because you did).

[5614]

oh yeah, AI is inteligence, does something pre-programed count as AI, surely, [heres a turn round on my behalf] surely AI MUST think for itself to be classified as AI, otherwise it wouldnt be inteligent! it would just be pre-programmed,

 

in which case, we are no where near creating AI, sure we can pre-proram something, but can we actually create something with inteligence???

 

thats like saying: can we copy God, [or a massive fluke, depending on ur view of creation] and make life, inteligent life, AI?????

[YT2095]

I vote "Yes, but not in my lifetime"

 

as for the "in my lifetime" bit, I`m uncertain (I don`t know). the Yes part is a certain however, it seems to be the way Mankind is heading, like some "DNA writen Goal". besides the Obvious uses such as deep space exploration craft and Military strategy AI "Minds", there`s the the drive towards "can it be done", that same drive is what got us to where we are today, so Yes, I recon one day, it`ll happen

[5614]

but yt.... r u thinking what AI actually means?

 

it means something that can think for itself, not a pre-programmed robot.

 

do you know how complex the human brain is????

 

im sure you do, even as a chemist-y-person, you must have some idea, the brain is far too complex to program.

 

and if you think AI just has to act, on pre-programmed programming, then think, to actually make this thing clever enough, think how massive the program would have to be. to actually be able to make up its own mind, what if it goes nuts and kills people? decides it doesnt like yt, and chops his head off, or decides it wants to mix, i dunno, some dangerous chemicals, u couldnt control it, if it could make its own decesion, which is far too complicated to program anyway

 

and to start putting limits on what it can do A) stops it being true AI, and just makes the program, even more complicated.

[jordan]

Think how complicated particle accelerators must be to men fighting with sticks and stones.

[TheProphet]

A baby isn't really that complex... most of what it will know is learned on form it's parents, others and itself. So would also the AI be needing to do! But the basics for this sort of programing would be, as said, extremly extensive.. altough most certain possible im afraid! But too me AI woulnt be made like we think! Or atleast i hope.. but with the computers today we are far far away but with a quantum processor and and an memory not yet known it will shure be far far far out of reach for our capabilitis.. but only the mathematical! Since such a machine isn't for cleaning ur room nor anything else of your normal life! But when it comes to things our computers have dreadfull problems of computing.. hope u follow me on this one.. im darn tired..

[Dave]

I can't see it happening anytime soon, if at all. We don't even know half the secrets of the brain, and I don't think that we'll be able to create truly intelligent systems until we do.

[Sayonara]

it means something that can think for itself, not a pre-programmed robot.

This is where you keep falling down.

 

It is pre-programmed, just not in the way you are thinking. An Artificial Intelligence is programmed with rules that allow it to learn. Not only is it capable of learning, it is able to do it in a heuristic fashion, and it can teach itself to think in new ways.

 

To a certain extent, this has already been done. The only question we need to answer is the "more intelligent than ourselves" part, for which we will need a common definition of intelligence.

[jordan]

Let me know if this is too off topic to continue:

 

How is it that so many common terms (inteligence, life, science...) are disagreed upon in their definition? Shouldn't there be a universal definition for those? But no two people can seem to agree. Surely there must have been a definition to the word when it started, but somehow got lost. Or is it just that as our knowledge expands, the old definitions are useless? But then is that to say we will never have a solid definition for these words again?

[LucidDreamer]

I think part of the problem is that there are multiple definitions of the same word. I think the main problem is that words cannot sufficiently describe the many complex thoughts that go through our minds. You will notice that most of the words that people argue over are abstract, like intelligence or evolution that represent many things that don't have an exact concrete representation. No one ever argues over the word doorknob. A lot of the arguments people get into are because of the ambiguity of abstract words and the lack of ability to adequately express themselves with them. These words rarely have solid definitions to the general public because of their lack of specific knowledge. If this AI argument was among AI experts they would use more specific technical terms like complex behavior patterns or Genetic Algorithms that would cause less confusion

[5614]

This is where you keep falling down.

 

It is pre-programmed' date=' just not in the way you are thinking. An Artificial Intelligence is programmed with rules that allow it to learn. Not only is it capable of learning, it is able to do it in a heuristic fashion, and it can teach itself to think in new ways.[/quote']

 

yeah, i know, i keep changing my definition of AI as each day goes on, you have your original thought, then you think some more and change it, and it keeps going on,

 

so keeping that in mind, here is my new thought on the matter:-

 

to create AI, would be imensly complicate.

 

so far, it is impossible to us because:

 

1) our programming skills are not good enough, the program would be far too complicated for us to yet consider,

 

2) we do not understand enough about the brain, to re-construct it in a computer, or some kind of other program.

 

i have done some basic programing, and trust me, its not that easy, sure, i picked it up quick, and consider myself and expert basic programer, but the key word there is basic, e.g. to create a proper computer game, takes a massive company, months, normally years to create a proper-full-length-up-to-date, computer game.

 

to program AI, something which can think for itself, is too complicated for us to yet consider, in our programming skills, and our understanding of the human brain, so far.

 

by saying "so far" i am implying tha it is a possibility one day in the future, but not for a while yet...

[Sayonara]

I don't think anyone is in any doubt that it is complicated.

 

Again, I have to point out that learning, intelligent programs do exist. Artificial Intelligence - to a certain degree - is a reality now. That wasn't the original question.

 

We don't necessarily need to know about the human brain to make a program that is more intelligent than we are.

 

I don't think it's in any way helpful to compare your experience of programming with that of, say, computer science professionals who have been writing in assembly language for the past forty years.

[TheProphet]

But Sayonara what 5614 says isn't that far fetched either! Of course there are learning software today.. but it has strict and very shallow barriers! What a real AI would be doing is still far far away.. both technicaly and programing part of it!