Homeschooling pros and cons

[the tree]

Following the thread about homeschooling in Germany I thought it would be good to have a more general discussion on homeschooling and take a look at both sides of the argument. Please add any points or refute any of mine.

 

Pros

• Child Safety: lots of parents want to keep their impressionable kids away from drugs and knives and peer pressure and keeping them at home is obviously going to help with that in the short term. If you view school as a dangerous place then it's natural to want to keep your kid away from it.
  
• Time dedicated to education: one teacher split among thirty children is obviously going to have less time to help an individual child than one parent taking care of three or four kids. There'd be time for personal attention and really making sure that work gets done.
  

Cons

• Lack of specialism: unless the parents have degrees relevant to all the subjects that they are teaching, they aren't going to be able to offer as much specialist knowledge as a group of teachers and will in most cases be limited to teaching from the textbook which at best is just really boring.
  
• Lack of accountability: teachers are well regulated by external bodies, by their peers and by their students all of whom have the ability to call foul if a teacher does something seriously wrong. In an isolated environment such as home-schooling there could be a serious case of misconduct that just doesn't get noticed.
  
• Lack of social education: a lot of the things learned in school aren't the same as those taught - how to cope with other people (including those you don't get along with), how to deal with relationships and particularly how to resist peer pressure and dare-i-say-it how to not get completely screwed over should you get into a fight. All these things require exposure to a peer group.
  

[ParanoiA]

• Lack of accountability: teachers are well regulated by external bodies, by their peers and by their students all of whom have the ability to call foul if a teacher does something seriously wrong. In an isolated environment such as home-schooling there could be a serious case of misconduct that just doesn't get noticed.
  
• 
  
• Lack of social education: a lot of the things learned in school aren't the same as those taught - how to cope with other people (including those you don't get along with), how to deal with relationships and particularly how to resist peer pressure and dare-i-say-it how to not get completely screwed over should you get into a fight. All these things require exposure to a peer group.
  

 

I dispute the impact of these two cons. The first one suggests an opportunity for abuse, which already exists whether or not they go to public school. That seems more like filler for the cons column. As far as teaching talent, or method though, it is a valid con. I would agree with that.

 

The second one suggests kids never leave the house except to go to school. I don't get that. Kids generally go out and play and socialize with the neighborhood after school, and I'm not sure why homeschooling supposedly precludes this. However, certainly the measure of how much social interaction would be decreased. I would suspect the advantages of better managing their peer group choices and perceived harmful external influences would be worth the decrease in social interaction. They're not hermits, they're just doing school at home.

 

 

Also, where's the pro on costs? Granted, I don't know that any districts in the United States reimburse school related taxes, but maybe they do in your country Tree? At any rate, it's certainly a potential incredible savings (which is why our government will *never* give up that money).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States

 

According to a 2005 report from the OECD, the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency).[71] Despite this high level of funding, according to the OECD, U.S. public schools lag behind the schools of other developed countries in the areas of reading, math, and science.[72]

 

Or directly from that link used by Wiki:

 

http://www.oecd.org/document/34/0,2340,en_2649_201185_35341645_1_1_1_1,00.html

 

OECD countries now spend an average of USD 7,343 per student per year between primary and tertiary education, but this masks a broad range of expenditure across countries. Switzerland and the U.S. spend the most, with average annual outlays per student of more than USD 11,000.

 

There will be costs associated with homeschooling, but no doubt it will pale dramatically in comparison to $11,000 per kiddo, per year, in public schools. Comparing this to my community college costs - subtracting tuition and parking fees of course - I doubt it would top over a few hundred bucks. But that's an inexperienced opinion to be sure.

 

And considering the utter disgrace in quality we're getting with this monetary hydrogen bomb of funding, public school advocates aren't in any position to be talking smack about home schooling.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

The second one suggests kids never leave the house except to go to school. I don't get that. Kids generally go out and play and socialize with the neighborhood after school, and I'm not sure why homeschooling supposedly precludes this. However, certainly the measure of how much social interaction would be decreased. I would suspect the advantages of better managing their peer group choices and perceived harmful external influences would be worth the decrease in social interaction. They're not hermits, they're just doing school at home.

 

I'd dispute this. That may be true in elementary school, but my experience in high school is that social groups are almost exclusively in-school. Nobody I knew socialized with the neighborhood unless someone they knew from school lived nearby.

 

Also, being in a school exposes you to far more people on a regular basis than you could ever be exposed to in a neighborhood. At school, you can't simply avoid that one annoying kid down the street -- you might share a class with him. Rather than avoiding uncomfortable situations by avoiding the neighborhood jerk, you're forced to learn to deal with the situation and overcome it.

 

Of course, there's the downside that you might suffer emotional or physical harm at the hands of the jerk when at school.

 

I'm going to do a search of the literature on this and see if studies have been done on the socialization of homeschooled children.

[jackson33]

the tree; I was going to post this on the that other HS thread, but just as applicable here. I really don't think many have any idea what HS, is or how it's treated in the US. Education is a State issue and HS is treated very different, in EACH State.

 

Law and requirements very so much in the various States, it would be hard to determine exactly how many are in fact home schooled. Ten States have virtually NO regulation, not even notification. Most the remaining have little or no regulation, requiring only notification and it would be my guess, not enforced, in most of these. For a State by State;

 

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

 

Then with out much or any regulation, the objective for the parents would be educating to the point of obtaining a GED (General Education Development) Equivalent, which can be done at anytime, after the age of 16 (some jurisdictions 18) and most Colleges/Universities (95%), will honor these test for entrance. There are some HS study guide plans that offer graduation certificates and each University or potential employer will address these in a different manner, but the GED approach is the best and most accepted means to show success for the average student. Additionally, many higher learning institutions have system of entrance exams, that can be used.

 

Those that offer Study Plans, (study guides, which includes GED Testing), do say about 85% that are asked for a reason, claim religious reasons, but would be high problematic to the actually children being Home schooled, in the first place. Then a good many Asian families prefer home schooling (oriental/Indian) for cultural reasons in addition to a possible religious cause, I don't know today's statistics, but would think many Muslim Families would also prefer Home Schooling, for the same reason.

 

On pro/con; Think it would be based on the parent or parents, the circumstances and the parents ability to actually teach, no less than any particular teacher or school system. I once married into a family of 5, with the oldest boy in the fifth grade, public schools. After about 2 or three weeks, I noticed he was the only one not bringing home any books, though none of the others seem to be looking at them, but found in ONE minute, this kid could not read any word, then had no idea what the alphabet was and not capable of writing anything other than his name, not knowing what the letters were. With respect to the mother, who was trying to learn herself how to read and write, beyond a third grade level, I failed to understand him being in the fifth grade...This was in a small town (South Texas) and should never had happened. I feel sure today, in half the Public Schools kids are passed on from year to year in no better shape than this young fellow was. Point; pro/con, can work both ways.

 

There will be costs associated with home schooling, but no doubt it will pale dramatically in comparison to $11,000 per kiddo, per year, in public schools. Comparing this to my community college costs - subtracting tuition and parking fees of course - I doubt it would top over a few hundred bucks. But that's an inexperienced opinion to be sure. [/Quote]

 

ParanoiA; The National Average is around 9k/year and think NJ and Washington DC the averages are near 15k/child (figures include territories). However, whether the parents HS, use a private or religious school or have any kids themselves, ALL the taxes used for Public Schools comes from the general population of the States. In collecting taxes (Property/School/City/County/State) are paid by everyone....

 

And considering the utter disgrace in quality we're getting with this monetary hydrogen bomb of funding, public school advocates aren't in any position to be talking smack about home schooling. [/Quote]

 

Perfect...

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Well, here's one perspective:

 

The booklet advances the view that pivotal social experiences plus daily age-peer contact are not needed to produce socially competent individuals, that real world socialization will better prepare students for the challenges they eventually will face than will school-based socialization, and that looking at socialization as a goal may be fairly nonproductive.

(the booklet is Happily Homeschooling Teens: Moving into the World.)

 

I found a dissertation on homeschooling, but in the literature review its claims that homeschooling can have a positive impact on socialization were backed up by the Journal of Research on Christian Education, which unfortunately does not have its complete archives online.

 

There's a cited article in the Home School Researcher, but our university library does not subscribe and I'd have to pay for access. Apparently it says that "children who were home-educated had fewer behavioral problems than their public schooled counterparts."

 

The rest of the dissertation is about academic achievement rather than socialization, and it is written by a Christian in direct favor of homeschooling.

 

Another MS dissertation asserts that "children who were schooled at home ‘gained the necessary skills, knowledge, and attitudes needed to function in society...at a rate similar to that of conventionally schooled children.’" This was based on a study of 30 homeschooled families.

 

From this quick research, I think the real answer is that nobody has done conclusive research either way. The sources in favor of homeschooling, like the Journal of Research on Christian Education, claim it's good; the educators in favor of public school claim it's bad. The research I've dug up so far seems to me to be inconclusive.

[ParanoiA]

I'd dispute this. That may be true in elementary school, but my experience in high school is that social groups are almost exclusively in-school. Nobody I knew socialized with the neighborhood unless someone they knew from school lived nearby.

 

Also, being in a school exposes you to far more people on a regular basis than you could ever be exposed to in a neighborhood. At school, you can't simply avoid that one annoying kid down the street -- you might share a class with him. Rather than avoiding uncomfortable situations by avoiding the neighborhood jerk, you're forced to learn to deal with the situation and overcome it.

 

Of course, there's the downside that you might suffer emotional or physical harm at the hands of the jerk when at school.

 

I'm going to do a search of the literature on this and see if studies have been done on the socialization of homeschooled children.

 

Ah, very good points. Yes, I have to agree with you here. You're right, I was focused on elementary level.

 

 

From this quick research, I think the real answer is that nobody has done conclusive research either way. The sources in favor of homeschooling, like the Journal of Research on Christian Education, claim it's good; the educators in favor of public school claim it's bad. The research I've dug up so far seems to me to be inconclusive.

 

I agree, we need something more rigorous and at least a resemblance to impartiality if possible.

Edited March 20, 2010 by ParanoiA
misspelled resemblance...what can I say, I went to public schools.

[Pangloss]

Home schooling requirements for the state of Florida:

http://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/information/home_education/

 

That program oversees "more than 60,000 students". Every student has to submit to a certified annual evaluation, and the parent has to keep up with certain paperwork. They're definitely not operating in a vacuum.

 

One of the interesting points I notice on that page is that home-schooled students are eligible for Bright Futures scholarships. This is a lottery-funded program that guarantees free college tuition if you can maintain a certain GPA (I think it's a "B" average).

 

This page has an interesting chart showing some homeschool requirements by state:

http://www.letshomeschool.com/articles4.html

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

This well-sourced article in the Wikipedia seems to have a number of statistics on the relative success level of home-schooling. The general thrust of it seems to be that it's no better or worse than public school, in terms of academic achievement. (The numbers in the quote below indicate sources for the points being made, which can be found on the Wikipedia page linked below.)

 

Although there are some studies that show that homeschooled students can do well on standardized tests,[26] some of these studies compare voluntary homeschool testing with mandatory public-school testing. Homeschooled students in the United States are not subject to the testing requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act.[27] Some U.S. states require mandatory testing for homeschooled students, but others do not. Some states that require testing allow homeschooling parents to choose which test to use.[28] An exception are the SAT and ACT tests, where homeschooled and formally-schooled students alike are self-selecting; homeschoolers averaged higher scores on college entrance tests in South Carolina.[29] When testing is not required, students taking the tests are self-selected, which biases any statistical results.[30] Other test scores (numbers from 1999 data in a year 2000 article) showed mixed results, for example showing higher levels for homeschoolers in English (homeschooled 23.4 vs national average 20.5) and reading (homeschooled 24.4 vs national average 21.4) on the ACT, but mixed scores in math (homeschooled 20.4 vs national average 20.7 on ACT, although SAT math section was above average 535 homeschooled compared to 511 for national average of 1999) .[31]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

I spoke with a friend of ours who homeschools her child (I believe he's 9 now, unless I missed a birthday). I've asked for her permission to quote some of what she told me in a recent email, but until then I just wanted to pass along one really interesting point that she made in paraphrase.

 

She said that one thing that is very different about homeschooling is that the child can spend extra time on a subject and not necessarily fall behind on other subjects, because they can make it up on stuff they get more quickly. That actually makes common sense, because we all know that people do better at some subjects than others -- we conveniently ignore that fact when we send kids off to school together, hoping it will all average out.

 

We applaud tutoring for the same reason, right? Isn't the purpose of tutoring to make up for what amounts to a deficiency in the system based on the fact that not all students learn every subject at the same rate?

 

Incidentally, she doesn't really teach him much personally. Her job is more mentor and facilitator. That wasn't the case early on, but at this point, still well before "high school", he's pretty much self-educating through online school and textbooks.

 

I'm having a hard time finding a problem with any of this, personally. Though I certainly recognize that it wouldn't work for all families.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Pangloss
Consecutive posts merged.

[CharonY]

I would assume that depending on the average quality of schools (and sadly from what I have heard and seen it appears that in the US the level is not very good) homeschooling can, if done correctly and by people who know how to do it be an improvement. I would think, however that it would not work for the majority of families. Adding time and constraints to the mix (assuming both parents having jobs which is increasingly common), it will be very hard. Many people that I know spend extra time with their kids to help them in certain areas and provide additional education in areas the kid is interested in, but then most of them are academics to begin with. They rarely do have time for a complete homeschooling curriculum, though.

An additional problem that I mentioned in another thread is the potential isolation of the kids from dissenting "mainstream" views. I was initially interested whether there are specialized textbooks for parents that want to homeschool and was kind of shocked to see the biology books on display. Question is whether that is a fringe market or mainstream.

[Severian]

I am fairly sure that I could teach all school subjects to a child at a level better than they would receive at an average High school. However, I wouldn't have the time (or the inclination) and they would them lose out on the experience of social interaction with their peers. That is something that I could never provide, which I believe is essential to a child's development.

[Brainteaserfan]

Firstly, several have mentioned concerns about socialization. I can't speak for all parts of the world, and I am sure that some homeschoolers are undersocialized, but I find that to be no problem for most homeschoolers. Near DC, there are thousands of homeschoolers that are involved in activities and coops with each other. I'm a homeschooled 9th grader, and I think that I am relatively typical (in terms of socialization) of most of my homeschool friends. On Monday I am part of a homeschool science team; there are about 20 kids. Tuesday I have a wind ensemble and jazz band; about 25 kids. Wednesday; orchestra with around 40 kids in it. Thursday, I have a biology class with around 20 children. Thursday afternoon I have a golf lesson with around 20, and Thurs night, bible study; only a few kids, but 15? adults. Friday is PE coop, and there are around 30 there. Sometime Fri evening we go play chess at a local chess club, although recently, that has gotten rarer. Saturday I have a science class in the morning with around 80 kids. Sunday is church, and usually we go to someone else's house afterwards. (note, I didn't include my spanish lesson taught by my grandmother, trumpet lesson, or other activities where I don't see many people.)

 

Is that undersocialized?? Public schoolers seem to often be uncomfortable with someone a few years older or younger then themselves; homeschoolers are usually fine with any age. When I first did activities with other public schoolers, I was surprised to find they always ask your grade first.

 

As to specialization; my dad does computers and finance, and my mom is a former music teacher. But with homeschooling, we form classes and each parent teaches their specialty. I want to note that in "elementary school," my mom helped me a lot, but now it is pretty much only on my trumpet. I take a few online classes, do some on my own, and have some physical classes.

 

 

Someone said in this thread something about it being cheaper than public school?? Actually, usually a parent stays home, in which case the cost is the lost salary.

 

I know several who have gone to public school for a semester (no doubt, not all schools are equal) and said that it was a enormous waste of time as compared to homeschooling.

 

Lastly I want to state that my test scores are not lacking, in fact last year on a standardized test I had 99th percentile. (haven't gotten this years)

Edited November 2, 2011 by Brainteaserfan

[Moontanman]

In my area home schooling usually means "white people" teaching their kids creationism, and keeping their kids away from black kids but far and away it's the religion part than has driven the home school craze. We do have a couple of private schools here who tout they give a good christian education to their students I don't know what a christian education is but when i was in grade school, public school, they actually taught that Noah's ark was real and i was punished for not swallowing the fairy tales of the bible but that was 50 years ago....

[Brainteaserfan]

In my area home schooling usually means "white people" teaching their kids creationism, and keeping their kids away from black kids but far and away it's the religion part than has driven the home school craze. We do have a couple of private schools here who tout they give a good christian education to their students I don't know what a christian education is but when i was in grade school, public school, they actually taught that Noah's ark was real and i was punished for not swallowing the fairy tales of the bible but that was 50 years ago....

I have some black homeschooled friends.

 

Is creationism really that big an issue for why people homeschool??? I can't imagine anyone homeschooling for that reason.

[Phi for All]

I think it varies as much as any educational environment. Great experiences and horrible ones, and everything in between. And like the environment, the students can vary the same way. I don't think there is an optimum way for everyone.

 

Socialization definitely needs to be augmented, imo, but there are lots of after school activities, organizations and groups that can do that.

 

Is creationism really that big an issue for why people homeschool??? I can't imagine anyone homeschooling for that reason.

Look at your average textbook and think about having to remove anything that talks about the world before 4000 B.C.E. Your books have to have pictures of dinosaurs and early humans co-existing. You can't get those in public schools.

[Brainteaserfan]

I think it varies as much as any educational environment. Great experiences and horrible ones, and everything in between. And like the environment, the students can vary the same way. I don't think there is an optimum way for everyone.

 

Socialization definitely needs to be augmented, imo, but there are lots of after school activities, organizations and groups that can do that.

 

 

Look at your average textbook and think about having to remove anything that talks about the world before 4000 B.C.E. Your books have to have pictures of dinosaurs and early humans co-existing. You can't get those in public schools.

My point was that if I'm not socializing or in a class, I'm either studying, eating, sleeping, or on here (which I could make an arguement for being extra writing). There is no more time for augmenting socialization.

 

I still don't understand why it matters whether one small part of one subject is different from what is widely accepted. It seems almost irrelevant to pros and cons of homeschooling, does it not?

Edited November 2, 2011 by Brainteaserfan

[Phi for All]

My point was that if I'm not socializing or in a class, I'm either studying, eating, sleeping, or on here (which I could make an arguement for being extra writing). There is no more time for augmenting socialization.

Your situation seems better than average, and I'm not sure it's representative of homeschooling in most areas. I think you have a well thought out program that lends itself to creating great potential.

 

I still don't understand why it matters whether one small part of one subject is different from what is widely accepted. It seems almost irrelevant to pros and cons of homeschooling, does it not?

Again, you may be an exception. Most young-earth creationists I've had discussions with believe all of science is suspect since they think it's deceiving everyone about the true age of the earth. And it's not just one small part of one subject. Geology, history, astronomy, biology, so many areas of education are affected when you ignore evidence of an ancient Earth.

 

And not all homeschools are for religious reasons. In fact, some people in areas where religion takes precedence over education homeschool their kids to keep them away from public schools where the teachers fudge the curriculum in favor of their religion.

[Moontanman]

My point was that if I'm not socializing or in a class, I'm either studying, eating, sleeping, or on here (which I could make an arguement for being extra writing). There is no more time for augmenting socialization.

 

I still don't understand why it matters whether one small part of one subject is different from what is widely accepted. It seems almost irrelevant to pros and cons of homeschooling, does it not?

 

 

Brainteaserfan, I have no doubt that some home schoolers are motivated by academic excellence, but many are motivated by religious belief and or bigotry. What does it matter if one small part is different from what is widely accepted? Evolution, is the foundation of modern biology, while it is called a theory most who say that have no understanding what a theory is but the real situation is that evolution is a fact, evolution is the best supported theory in modern science. There is no doubt that evolution is responsible for the biodiversity we see today, nothing about biology makes sense with out evolution and if you deny evolution in favor of creationism you have to deny cosmology, geology, astronomy, biochemistry, physics and in fact pretty much all of the science that has given us this first world civilization we enjoy so much. The simple idea of humans coexisting with dinosaurs ignores pretty much all of science. How can you say someone is getting a real education if they ignore the very things that have brought us to this world we call civilization?

[Brainteaserfan]

Brainteaserfan, I have no doubt that some home schoolers are motivated by academic excellence, but many are motivated by religious belief and or bigotry. What does it matter if one small part is different from what is widely accepted? Evolution, is the foundation of modern biology, while it is called a theory most who say that have no understanding what a theory is but the real situation is that evolution is a fact, evolution is the best supported theory in modern science. There is no doubt that evolution is responsible for the biodiversity we see today, nothing about biology makes sense with out evolution and if you deny evolution in favor of creationism you have to deny cosmology, geology, astronomy, biochemistry, physics and in fact pretty much all of the science that has given us this first world civilization we enjoy so much. The simple idea of humans coexisting with dinosaurs ignores pretty much all of science. How can you say someone is getting a real education if they ignore the very things that have brought us to this world we call civilization?

Biology is the scientific study of life, right? Knowing where life came from is only a small part of that. If for an analogy we replace life with cars, we could learn all about cars, their parts, how they work, etc, without ever knowing how they are manufactured.

 

Your situation seems better than average, and I'm not sure it's representative of homeschooling in most areas. I think you have a well thought out program that lends itself to creating great potential.

 

 

Again, you may be an exception. Most young-earth creationists I've had discussions with believe all of science is suspect since they think it's deceiving everyone about the true age of the earth. And it's not just one small part of one subject. Geology, history, astronomy, biology, so many areas of education are affected when you ignore evidence of an ancient Earth.

 

And not all homeschools are for religious reasons. In fact, some people in areas where religion takes precedence over education homeschool their kids to keep them away from public schools where the teachers fudge the curriculum in favor of their religion.

Ok, I'll see if I can get anyone from my online classes (in different parts of the country) to chime in and see whether my situation is different from most.

[imatfaal]

Brainteaser - i went to a school with over a thousand people (as will many of the forum members) , from 8am till 5pm I was out of my parents sphere of control, the rules of behaviour and social mores changed, and the world was a very very different place.

 

it is this change that is crucial; from a small family sized grouping within which everybody is known (and trusted) through multiple connexions and there is little social cultural challenge; to a more heterogeneous and anonymous mixing pot where you will be forced into relations with those you have no prior knowledge of, nor connexion with, nor shared experience/culture. I cannot help but think that exposing children to the differences that even a small community has within it is vitally important; and to withhold this from a child might lead to an overly sheltered upbringing that does not fully engage with the rich array of people and persons within society. home-schooling removes much of the danger, the hazard, and the risk from the school years and it is quite understandable why parents would want to do this; but unless you can control and quarantine the risks and dangers of the world for the rest of your life then you do need to start to come to terms with the slightly inhospitable nature of the world.

 

you write and argue very well for a 14/15 yo and it is clear you are not missing out there - but I think there is so much more to the "school experience" than academic education

[Brainteaserfan]

Brainteaser - i went to a school with over a thousand people (as will many of the forum members) , from 8am till 5pm I was out of my parents sphere of control, the rules of behaviour and social mores changed, and the world was a very very different place.

(italics added) I don't understand how. Maybe I would need to go to a public school to find out. I mostly just get my stuff done and report to my parents what I have done, and as long as I am getting A's in my classes, they don't really "control."

 

 

it is this change that is crucial; from a small family sized grouping within which everybody is known (and trusted) through multiple connexions and there is little social cultural challenge; to a more heterogeneous and anonymous mixing pot where you will be forced into relations with those you have no prior knowledge of, nor connexion with, nor shared experience/culture. I cannot help but think that exposing children to the differences that even a small community has within it is vitally important; and to withhold this from a child might lead to an overly sheltered upbringing that does not fully engage with the rich array of people and persons within society. home-schooling removes much of the danger, the hazard, and the risk from the school years and it is quite understandable why parents would want to do this; but unless you can control and quarantine the risks and dangers of the world for the rest of your life then you do need to start to come to terms with the slightly inhospitable nature of the world.

 

 

I do not know all of the people at most of the activities, or if I do, it has only been since the start of the year. Church and band are the two exceptions.

 

Some may be "overly sheltered," but I don't believe most are. I suppose I can't very easily say anything if I am still in an "overly sheltered" state however.

 

you write and argue very well for a 14/15 yo and it is clear you are not missing out there - but I think there is so much more to the "school experience" than academic education

Thanks! I guess it doesn't count as a way to find out what I am missing to sometimes play in (and help) various local high school bands, but from the little time there, I am quite glad I don't go to public school! You can't get much done in their short band sessions, there is only a brief time to warm up, so frustrating to me, and I am confident that more gets done in 120 min a week of my band then the 225 min a week (I think I calculated that right, maybe only 200...) of most public schooled bands. Not having been to the other classes I don't know, but if other classes are like that, I can see why friends have said that it is a waste of their time.