The relationship between lightning and gamma rays.

[JSEverex]

I'm not quite sure if I am posting this question in the right forums due to the inclusion of this subject into several different fields:

 

I recently watched a program on either the Science channel or NatGeo that was about lightning. It stated that lightning was not produced solely by the cloud of it's origin but by the combination of the cloud's charged fields and a gamma ray burst coming from space in the form of a cosmic ray. Atleast I'm pretty sure that is what I heard. They said that the cloud itself does not have the required charge to create the initial voltage for the strike, that the gamma rays end up exciting the electrical charges to the point of creating the strike and also creating a byproduct of more gamma rays and xrays aswell. I'm looking for articles about this by so far I've not come up with anything concrete. I have only been able to find he studies that link terrestrial gamma flashes like elves and blue jets to lightning. I believe I might have a practical application of the theories that I can present in a thesis, but I need the initial findings first.

If anyone knows any information on the subject or has any links to articles it will be greatly appreciated.

[Martin]

... It stated that lightning was not produced solely by the cloud of it's origin but by the combination of the cloud's charged fields and a gamma ray burst coming from space in the form of a cosmic ray. Atleast I'm pretty sure that is what I heard...

 

This could be a great thread if you (or other contributors) keep asking questions.

 

Lightning is a really interesting topic.

 

How do clouds get their charge in the first place?

 

What is the breakdown volts/meter of dry air?

 

Either gammarays or cosmic rays passing thru some air can make it more conductive. So the air is more conductive and doesn't need such a high volts/meter for a spark to jump.

 

Radiation going thru can lower the threshhold. Lower the breakdown volts/meter ---triggering a bolt.

 

Why don't you google "breakdown voltage" and see what it says?

==========

 

I got curious and googled it, and I gather that in dry air it is about 3 million volts per meter. It also depends on the shape of the electrodes. Typically it is given for smooth round electrodes because any little bumps or pointy places can lower the threshold by providing concentrated gradient points from which sparks an jump.

It also depends if there is moisture or impurities in the air.

 

Spark breakdown is a CHAIN REACTION! Once a trickle of current starts, it further ionizes the air!

as soon as some electrons are pulled off their atoms, they begin to move and be accelerated by the voltage field. And as they move they bump into other air molecules and crash them and knock other electrons off. So then the action of the current further ionizes more air, and more air. Until the air becomes very conductive (very ionized).

 

Gammarays are photons (very short wave light)

Cosmic rays are mostly protons---hydrogen nuclei. A proton is a massive particle. Very different from light or from a gamma ray.

 

The point, I think, is that ANY energetic thing that passes thru the air can have collisions and knock electrons off the air molecules, and ionize. And so ANY of that stuff can make the air temporarily more conductive.

 

When it is more conductive then it doesn't take such a steep gradient like 3 million volts per meter to set off lightning.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Martin

[JSEverex]

Okay so I've been reading a bit about the breakdown cascades and see what you're saying about the chain reaction. It also explains why the lightning strike carries so much voltage (as there are many particles of atmosphere being ionized in between the origin of the cascade and the point of contact). I also read that breakdown occurs easier in a vaccum and now have a handy equation for differentials of breakdown occurance in varying atmospheric pressure levels. I also found the theory that links cosmic rays and the seeding of lightning that was initially proposed by Aleksandr Gurevich.

I further researched into different ionizing particles (excited alpha, beta and neutrons) and ionizing electromagnetic waves (ultraviolet, x-ray, and gamma).

The really interesting thing here is that the theory is that lightning is being seeded from cosmic rays, which are as you said excited particles traveling close to the speed of light. It would make sense that gamma, x-rays would not be seeding the lightning because they are negated from the earth's magnetic field. But as I was saying the interesting thing here is the lightning is producing gamma and x-rays in conjunction of the strike through some reaction. I'm wondering if there is more than ionization happening here with all the electrical current passing through the atmosphere. There is a bit of chemistry going on with the production of ozone, I wonder how far off it would be if there was a fission reaction occuring aswell. It doesn't have much bearing on my practical application that I'm cooking up (yet) but it's definetly something to explore. So we know that both excited alpha particles, beta particles, neutrons and shortwave electromagnetic waves can ionize atleast gasses. So potentially we could seed lightning if we wanted to with said sources. Now I have to find the medium between most ionizing and easiest to produce.

 

Now the next thing I have to research is the ionization of different gasses (preferably abundant ones) and how strong each cascade would be in a pure atmosphere of that gas under varying pressures.

Edited April 12, 2010 by JSEverex

[khaled]

cosmic rays can be triggers from unknown source in the outer space for many things in nature ,,

 

it led me to think it might be from God,

[swansont]

Let's keep this within the realm of science, please