Leaving the U.S.A. for a graduate program overseas?

[Genecks]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of America.

 

As such, I've often considered leaving the U.S. and taking up residence as an academic elsewhere in the world.

 

At the graduate level, when seeking graduate programs, how feasible is this?

Is it practical to seek a foreign graduate school?

Do foreign academic institutions often pay their graduate students to do research and teach? Do they waive tuition?

 

I've often questioned what it would be like to do neuroscience in Spain, but I'm not too familiar with foreign lands and how their academic institutions work.

[Mr Skeptic]

My parents studied in France; they had very good benefits for students. I don't know whether that is still the case.

[Icefire]

All that I know is that here in Canada we get a lot of Asian students, and that our student loan programs are pretty decent.

Other than that sorry can't help.

[Greippi]

If you're looking to do a PhD, many PhDs in the science field come with funding. In England it generally doesn't matter where you come from - as long as you're the best person for the "job".

[CharonY]

It is largely dependent on the country. The programs vary a lot. For instance, graduate programs in Germany are shorter and are mostly focused on doing research rather than having classes. However, most entering usually have a master's equivalent (though this has been changed in recent years).

As a doctoral student there were no tuition fees and you got paid for the work. Generally you should check the programs available, and either apply for open positions or try to get a scholarship. But what you get is will differ a lot from country to country.

[TeslaFan]

How is the language barrier? I would imagine it would be tough for an intermediate level speaker to read a technical textbook or follow a fast speaking professor.

[CharonY]

If you are not proficient in the particular language, it may be advisable to to look for specifically for international programs that are generally taught in English (and if you want to study science, you have to learn English anyway).

[DevilSolution]

england it is then? =D

[Marat]

One problem with foreign graduate study is that while the U.S. often extends special help to foreign students on the theory that they have fewer financial resources than American students do, most foreign countries assume that domestic scholarships, grants, fellowships, teaching assistantships, and perks of all kinds should be reserved for their own nationals, who generally do have less disposable income.

 

Another issue to consider is that foreign countries all have their own unique educational systems which make a number of arbitrary assumptions that an American student will not be familiar with. You might not understand the importance or the nature of tutorials or the college system if you are an American going to England, or you might be surprised at the need to register with the police and get health insurance before you can matriculate at the university if you go to Germany. In almost all continental European countries, you will be amazed at how vital a high school diploma, produced in the original, is, when no U.S. grad school would care about it.

 

A final disadvantage is that the rituals and networking structure for propelling you from getting your Ph.D./M.D. to an academic position are often quite different abroad than they are in the U.S., and often the system abroad simply won't link up with the jobs available in the U.S. You may then decide to stay in Europe, where life is in some ways better, though there are other assumptions of everyday life which will be startling to an American. (E.g., in Germany you can only name your children with a name from a government list of approved names; you can't leave or enter a new town to live there without registering with the police; you must carry ID with you if you go near a political demonstration, etc.)

 

These cultural dissonances take a while to adjust to, so if you plan to study abroad make sure that you go three or four months in advance to acclimatize yourself first. When you are in the midst of all the pressure of doing your graduate work you don't want to have to deal with the surprise that, for example, in Italy you cannot buy postage stamps at the post office, but only at a tobacco store (?!), or that you cannot pay any government fees in cash at a government office in Austria, but you must first buy stamps at a store to pay for these petty transactions, etc.

[timo]

It's not Spain, but it's Europe and it's Neuroscience, and I happen to know of the program. So maybe this is an interesting read for you: http://www.gpneuro.uni-goettingen.de/ . Considering Marat's post: if buying your stamps somewhere else than where you are used to in the US is a problem for you, then don't even consider going to any foreign country for more than a guided tour. Things like bureaucracy may seem scary, but you're probably not the first and only foreign PhD student at the university you apply to. So unless you suffer from a complete absence of social skills you will always find someone who can help you around with such issues (for example, for finding housing it is rather common that someone of your group will assist you with that in making appointments and visiting the flats together with you - at least in the groups that I have been in).

[Marat]

I agree that it is possible to get around in a foreign environment; I've spent more than half my life living outside of my home country, and have taught in three countries outside the one where I grew up. My point was simply that you have to expect there to be some unexpected inconveniences adjusting to any foreign culture, so since you will already have your hands full with adjusting to the stresses of graduate work, it is best to ensure that you have already mastered the skills of living in a foreign country before school starts.

 

There are also even more challenging problems in adjusting to the internal culture of foreign universities, which is often different in unexpected ways from your experience. Thus for example, when I first began studying medicine in Germany, I thought the students were simply foolish to be copying down every single word the professor said in each lab introduction and to be laboriously transcribing every little detail he wrote on the blackboard when introducing the labs, while yet failing to pay any attention at all during the regular lectures. Also, they seemed foolishly to ignore the recommended textbooks, and to spend way too much time memorizing every minor aspect of the labs. It was only when I got to my first final exam that I was suddenly shocked to learn that Germans make the surreal assumption that an adequate examination of a subject consists in asking questions ONLY about the labs while asking nothing whatsoever about the general principles of the subject.

 

Even though I had read standard German guidebooks about medical studies before that, what I did not appreciate was that these guidebooks only explained what Germans would not automatically assume, which did not include the generally understood rule that exams were only about labs -- which was simply too well known to count as something worth explaining.

[CharonY]

The point regarding diplomas is valid, at least in Germany they generally want full coverage of your academic records. However, there are also scholarship specifically for foreign students.

 

In addition, as a foreigner you do not need to register with the local police, but you have to have health insurance (same as in US as foreigner, often covered by stipend) and you have to register your primary residence (which is mandatory for all citizens). As a foreigner you have additionally to register with the "foreigner's office" but only need to declare if you change states. It may sound complicated, but honestly, it is not really more paper work than coming to the US, for instance.

 

I cannot really agree with the description of the lectures, however. They are extremely dependent on the teacher (and meds are pretty weird anywhere). Having worked in both academic settings I would say that in Germany more independence is expected from the students. Extensive office hours and tutoring are less common, for instance. However, the system has been revamped recently so much is still in transition.

[Marat]

In Germany the situation varies by 'Land' or province, and when I was in Berlin, the initial settling-in requirements were so extensive that the Land officials allowed only part of them to be completed by foreign students on first arrival, with the rest to be completed later. I was in Germany from 1984 to 1990, however, so things are no doubt different by now.

[CharonY]

Off-Topic:

 

Pre-reunification Berlin is quite a different beast than compared to the rest of Germany, so it makes sense that there were some oddities not found in other (West-German) states in that area. But it is true that as a non-resident on a student Visa there are quite some hoops you have jump through there. But again, it is the same if you are a student coming to the US as student visas in most countries are somewhat strictly regulated.

[preciseenergy]

Oh actually US offers great graduation programs..