Stone in altars...

[Externet]

All Christian altars have a piece of 'different' stone in it. From what I learn decades ago, it is a stone taken/sourced only from a certain mountain in Israel? Rome? and all churches use one when building the altar.

Where is the exact source of such Ara (in spanish) stone ?

[Moontanman]

Any chance you have anything to back up this assertion? Hard to believe the Rod of God ministries in the local run down strip mall has a special stone from anywhere in it.

[Externet]

This was somehow, veeeery hard to find on the net, but I know I did not dreamed it. At least I have it partially right...

 

The eighth picture shows the altar cavity where the ara stone is to be inserted.

http://deespana.blogspot.com/2007/01/el-mayor-altar-visigodo.html

 

If you look carefully, is inserted here too. :

http://www.stpeterscathedral.org/altar%20a.JPG

 

Last paragraph here mentions something :

http://catholic-hythe.org/Floor_plan/altar_tabernacle.htm

 

http://www.fcpeace.com/images/euc_piedra.jpg

 

...and I have seen them...

 

Edited April 14, 2010 by Externet

[Moontanman]

This was somehow, veeeery hard to find on the net, but I know I did not dreamed it. At least I have it partially right...

 

The eighth picture shows the altar cavity where the ara stone is to be inserted.

http://deespana.blogspot.com/2007/01/el-mayor-altar-visigodo.html

 

If you look carefully, is inserted here too. :

http://www.stpeterscathedral.org/altar%20a.JPG

 

Last paragraph here mentions something :

http://catholic-hythe.org/Floor_plan/altar_tabernacle.htm

 

http://www.fcpeace.com/images/euc_piedra.jpg

 

...and I have seen them...

 

 

Your assertion was that every Christian Church contains a stone form a specific place, not that every Christian church has a stone alter but I have seen many churches with no stone alter.

[tomgwyther]

It appears that the use of stone from Israel is only prerequisite in Jerusalem.

From The Jerusalem stone company:

In fact, to this day the City of Jerusalem requires the use of Jerusalem stone on all buildings in order to preserve the unique character of the city.

I can't find any evidence that it is necessary in all churches. Nor that it exists in the majority of churches. A friend of mine - devout Christian, pasture, evangelist, theological studies type - seemed unaware of it, but added it would be a 'nice touch.'

 

you can order Jerusalem stone for construction if you so desire. I also found that you can order a floor to be laid in your church made from stone containing pre-historic fossils. A nice touch I thought... To have a 300 million year old animal fossil embedded in the floor beneath you feet as you read a book which claims the world is only about 6000 years old. Ironic flooring; a whole new market.

[zule]

In Sapnish "ara" means "altar". But it doesn't have to be made with a particular kind of stone.

 

On the other hand, I spent 16 years in a nun school, so I know about Christianity more than I wanted; and i have never heard about such requirement here.

[Externet]

Why is it so often responders do not read the original post properly ? My English is not perfect, but far from bad.

 

No! Moontanman.

My assertion says every altar contains a 'different' stone. I did not say church. You twisted it there. Go back and read.

If the altar is made of wood, it should also contain such Ara stone in it. That is the subject.

 

Tom : This is not about building material for a church. It is about a stone inserted in the altar table, whatever the material of the table is, whatever the country be.

 

zule : The altar does not have to be built with any particular stone. You have that part right, and it is not the subject of the thread.

It is about the insertion of a stone in the altar table, whatever the material of the table is. Very strange you never saw an altar without the cloth on it.

 

Seems the link pictures do not mean anything as to "backup the assertion"

 

My curiosity is the source of the stones, not to argue if they are in altars or not.

[Moontanman]

Why is it so often responders do not read the original post properly ? My English is not perfect, but far from bad.

 

No! Moontanman.

My assertion says every altar contains a 'different' stone. I did not say church. You twisted it there. Go back and read.

If the altar is made of wood, it should also contain such Ara stone in it. That is the subject.

 

First your post does indeed say the stone has to come from a specific place, Israel or Rome, your words.

 

All Christian altars have a piece of 'different' stone in it. From what I learn decades ago, it is a stone taken/sourced only from a certain mountain in Israel? Rome? and all churches use one when building the altar.

Where is the exact source of such Ara (in spanish) stone ?

 

Second i know for a fact the alter in a local Church i go to contains no stone at all, i know i have been to several churches in my life that had no stone in their altars as well.

 

Tom : This is not about building material for a church. It is about a stone inserted in the altar table, whatever the material of the table is, whatever the country be.

 

Again, i say this is not true, all altars do not contain stone of any kind.

 

zule : The altar does not have to be built with any particular stone. You have that part right, and it is not the subject of the thread.

It is about the insertion of a stone in the altar table, whatever the material of the table is. Very strange you never saw an altar without the cloth on it.

 

I've seen many altars with no stone, i suggest you look. The altar in all Churches is not covered all the time.

 

Seems the link pictures do not mean anything as to "backup the assertion"

 

Nope they do not.

 

My curiosity is the source of the stones, not to argue if they are in altars or not.

 

I would have to say if the altar has a stone in it a stone quarry would be the source.

[zule]

It is not compulsory for an altar to have a stone coming from a mount of Jerusalem or wherever in it. Perhaps some altars have it, but it is not compulsory. And I do not find in your links anything about that compulsoty stone from Jerusalem or wherever it comes.

 

The only thing related to your question I can think is that the altar can contain a Saint’s relics, and in this case these could be in a stone inserted in the main stone. But there are not many Saints dead in Jerusalem and that is not compulsory either.

 

And yes, I have seen many altars: of stone, of wood, of metal, and they do not have to have a stone from a certain place in them compulsorily.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altar_stone

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_%281913%29/Altar_Stone

 

Looks like it's no longer mandatory. It's a stone consecrated by a bishop, not necessarily from a particular place, although perhaps there used to be some specific source that was popular.

[Moontanman]

I see, so it's was a Catholic thing, since I have never been in a Catholic church I know I never saw it in any of the Protestant Churches I've been in. Of course some of them might have one.

 

On a side bar, doesn't Islam hold a certain stone as sacred? Often thought to be a meteorite?

 

yup, here it is

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

Edited April 15, 2010 by Moontanman

[Externet]

It is rare to see an altar without the cloth:

 

"...A plain linen covering (Greek: Katasarkion, Slavonic: Strachítsa) is bound to the Holy Table with cords; this cover is never removed after the altar is consecrated, and is considered to be the "baptismal garment" of the altar. The linen covering symbolizes the winding sheet in which the body of Christ was wrapped when he was laid in the tomb. Since the altar is never seen uncovered thereafter"...

[From http://www.answers.com/topic/altar]

 

Long video : http://homepage.mac.com/stlawrence/iMovieTheater20.html

 

What is kept under the ara stone in the altar is not the subject either, but shows there is one :

 

"...The relics of at least two saints, at least one of which had to be a martyr, were inserted in a cavity in the altar which was then sealed, a practice that was meant to recall the use of martyrs' tombs as places of Eucharistic celebration during the persecutions of the Church in the first through third centuries. Also in the cavity were sealed documents relating to the altar's..."

[From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altar_stone]

 

http://www.antiochian.org/node/22564

 

http://www.orthodoxytz.com/photos_consecration.asp

 

I believe this one has it on the side wall :

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/710650

 

I believe the Pope is placing it here:

http://www.dominicanfriars.org/2008/07/20/popes-wyd-message-to-young-religious/

 

Another picture of the stone that 'does not exist' :

http://www.mansaf.org/tarmim/re-openeing.htm

 

This does not exist either :

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1216932793059399543btUycI

 

Another optical illusion :

http://www.vroma.org/images/raia_images/altar4.jpg

 

More optical tricks ? :

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/civitas.dei/easter09_09.jpg

 

Sorry, :

http://fssp.com/images/chapel2010/altarstone.jpg

[Moontanman]

Now you are just being difficult, no one has said there is no stone in Altars, just that all Altars do not contain stones. Nor are the stones in Altars from a specific place. i suggest you ask a Priest, Pastor, Preacher, or other religious icon if you did not believe or read the links provided.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Moontanman
emotional response

[Externet]

Difficult ? If the links provided you talk about are the ones in post #10, I did not know they existed because took me one hour to put together response #12.

 

Thanks zule and Cap'n Refsmmat for your responses; instead of "a stone quarry"