Avatar

[michel123456]

Avatar in the sense used on the internet is that little image representing yourself. Your incarnation on Web. The original meaning of the word was the incarnation of Vishnu.

 

"The proliferation of avatar’s second meaning can be traced to Second Life, a multiplayer online virtual world, where players fashion their own online personae called avatars. The popularity of the game has shot the term into the mainstream. Philip Rosedale, the creator of Second Life, defines avatar in the gaming sense as “the representation of your chosen embodied appearance to other people in a virtual world.” Considering that Second Life avatars may assume literally any guise — wings, a dragon’s head, gills and flippers — the key to avatarness, in Rosedale’s view, is user control. And insofar as a Second Life avatar does and is precisely what the player wants, not just a little Mario who can be made to run and jump or a shapely diva gyrating of her own programmed will, it comes far closer to being a full-fledged virtual persona." (from http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/magazine/10wwln-guest-t.html?_r=2&scp=2&sq=avatar&st=cse&oref=login)

 

I am asking: is this Forum a game?

Is there any reason to hide behind a fake image?

 

When having a conversation, I like to know who I am talking to. I hate burkas, masks & avatars.

Avatars make me feel like Ku klux Klan.

 

I can understand that some members want to remain anonym. But some basic information can make no harm. It is actually intimidating to engage a conversation (especially with an important person like administrator or moderator) without knowing who that person is.

 

IMHO.

Michel.

[insane_alien]

dude, its just a picture that you wish to use as a representation of yourself.

 

it doesn't matter what it contains, it could be a picture of your self, a caricature, something you like, something that reflects your personality a bit whatever.

 

it doesn't turn anything into a game.

 

is it really any different to using a forum where there are no images?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I'll agree that discussions feel more personal when you actually know who you're talking to, but I'll also point out that SFN predates Second Life by a year.

 

It'd be nice if more people chose to be less anonymous on SFN, but that's hard to encourage. Many people are afraid of what will happen if they put their personal information on the Internet.

 

But anyway, hi, I'm Alex.

[ydoaPs]

Hi, I'm Sylar and I'm an alcoholic. Oh, wait, wrong forum.

 

 

Um, I'm Nick and my posts in no way represent the US Navy.

[michel123456]

Hi Nick, Hi Alex.

[Phi for All]

I'll bump this old thread and see if we can get more names.

[ydoaPs]

Pay not attention to the 2004 me, for he is an idiot.

[michel123456]

dude, its just a picture that you wish to use as a representation of yourself. (...)

 

It is a representation.

Not a presentation.

If you see the difference.

Since this is a Science Forum, I suppose it's all about the real world, not a fictive world with fictive players.

You are you and I am I.

 

The best presentation is a picture of yourself.

You don't want to learn what your avatar suggests to a dude like me...

[Phi for All]

I can understand that some members want to remain anonym. But some basic information can make no harm. It is actually intimidating to engage a conversation (especially with an important person like administrator or moderator) without knowing who that person is.

Many of the people I work under contract for wouldn't understand the time and effort I put into this site, since I don't work in a scientific field (I'm a sales and marketing consultant). Even when my contract is specific about results, most of my employers would probably question my work on the forum and I would prefer not to jeopardize those relationships.

 

I know many others here log on while at work, so it could be very detrimental to have their real identity coupled with time-stamped entries. Especially in the US, employers don't give much credence to the idea of taking a quick break from work to refresh your mind with puzzles or music or discussion forums. They're more understanding of a need to pollute your lungs with nicotine than to post a political opinion or read about a scientific discovery.

[Sisyphus]

In my mind, the biggest benefit of anonymity is democratic. i.e., because you don't know who you're talking to or anything about them (at least at first), you're forced to treat everyone the same. Young or old, male or female, gorgeous or troglodyte, all prejudices are bypassed, and all you have to go on is what they say. And yes, we all do treat people differently based on stuff like that, consciously or not.

 

That said, I feel like I know many regular members quite well, despite not knowing their names, what they look like, or very much if anything about their biographies. What I know is how they think, and I like that.

 

A secondary benefit of relative anonymity is, ironically, that people can feel more free to be open. If you don't care if anyone at all can see what you say on SFN, more power to you, but for most of us it's just an unnecessary liability. I personally don't have anything in particular to hide, and I haven't gone to great lengths to conceal my identity, and I'm sure I've given enough personal details that any determined person could find me easily enough. But what's the point in broadcasting it?

 

So for the record, I am not, in fact, the mythological trickster/proverbial symbol of pointless labor Sisyphus, nor a mischievous looking cartoon robot devil. I think it's strange that anyone would read too much into usernames or avatars. I certainly don't.

 

If it really matters, my real first name is Matt.

[StringJunky]

My name's Tony. It's interesting for me watching people's personas and mindsets naturally manifest over time through their writing without actually seeing them which is most probably completely at odds with how they are in 'real life'. Although it is real people putting the words here, it is the words and the subsequent mental constructs one generates from them that really matters and not their physical selves and personal circumstances that I'm generally interested in here.

 

Not being of a formally trained scientific disposition myself it's useful to know if a person is relevantly qualified in a field so I can presume some creedence to their words and learn from them without having to be unduly sceptical beforehand...if they are skilled it's beneficial to know but any other personal info is not necessary IMO, so, anonymising avatars are fine with me if people feel the need.

[iNow]

I think Sisyphus hit the nail on the head. In these fora, all that matters is words... how we articulate our points... the logic we use, the consistency of our case, and the support and references we offer in support.

 

It doesn't matter if you are male or female, white or brown, old or young, hairy or bald, attractive or ugly, malnourished or corpulent, wrinkled or taut...

 

All that matters is how we present our arguments, how we articulate our cases, and how we support our assertions. The even playing field is an ENORMOUSLY powerful thing for driving to the heart of issues and avoiding our unconscious biases.

[ydoaPs]

Okay, guys. I'll come clean. I'm Barack Obama. Now you know.

[Moontanman]

Michael is my name but i've been called moontanman for a very long time, from way before my computer. many of my friends shorten it to moon but I don't like Mike!

[Mr Skeptic]

"The proliferation of avatar’s second meaning can be traced to Second Life, a multiplayer online virtual world, where players fashion their own online personae called avatars.

 

Or, it could be traced a bit further back than that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar

The use of the term avatar for the on-screen representation of the user was coined in 1985 by Chip Morningstar and Joseph Romero in designing Lucasfilm's online role-playing game Habitat.

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In my mind, the biggest benefit of anonymity is democratic. i.e., because you don't know who you're talking to or anything about them (at least at first), you're forced to treat everyone the same. Young or old, male or female, gorgeous or troglodyte, all prejudices are bypassed, and all you have to go on is what they say. And yes, we all do treat people differently based on stuff like that, consciously or not.

 

That said, I feel like I know many regular members quite well, despite not knowing their names, what they look like, or very much if anything about their biographies. What I know is how they think, and I like that.

 

A secondary benefit of relative anonymity is, ironically, that people can feel more free to be open. If you don't care if anyone at all can see what you say on SFN, more power to you, but for most of us it's just an unnecessary liability. I personally don't have anything in particular to hide, and I haven't gone to great lengths to conceal my identity, and I'm sure I've given enough personal details that any determined person could find me easily enough. But what's the point in broadcasting it?

 

That's pretty much how I feel.

 

And remember, even if people put pictures of themselves, or seem to, it is absurdly easy to put a picture of someone else instead. You can't really trust people to actually look like what they appear to look like. As it is, I think that for the most part it is obvious when someone is posting a picture of themselves or not -- but if we had everyone put up a portrait, I doubt that would still be the case.

 

Also, the fear of having job troubles is quite real: people have lost their jobs for showing up on an internet search saying something their current or prospective employers don't like. PS: if this happens to you, say it was someone else. Names aren't unique.

 

Anyhow, you can call me Chris if you prefer.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Mr Skeptic
Consecutive posts merged.

[michel123456]

Hi Matt.

Hi Tony.

Hi Barack.

Hi Michael.

Hi Chris.

 

I understand Φ's point.

 

But the "who is talking" is important in human relationship.

Isn't it, Barack?

 

BTW this is my picture, about 6 months ago.

And my name is Michel. I don't like it. I haven't choose it. I cried a lot when I once learned I could never change it (I was about 4 years old). But that's it.

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Hi Stephen.

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I'll bump this old thread and see if we can get more names.

 

Hi Bill.

[the tree]

Is there any reason to hide behind a fake image?

What's fake about it? It might not be an accurate representation of what you physically look like, but since you chose it, it says more about you than your face which is relatively speaking, fairly fixed.

 

I'll also point out that SFN predates Second Life by a year.

People have had avatars on forums for at least as long as I can remember (I used to make mine in paint) which would be some time in the late nineties I guess.

[Sisyphus]

But the "who is talking" is important in human relationship.

 

I consider a name and a face irrelevant to the "who" in this context.

[insane_alien]

mmm, if you hang around here you do get to now the various members. i don't necessarily know their real name, i don't know what they look like, i don't even know what they sound like.

 

BUT. i know how they behave, likes and dislikes, interests, talents, etc. etc.

 

this fits well in a science forum as in science its not who says it, it's can they justify it?

[the tree]

i_a, for instance is a chemical engineer, a bit older than me and doesn't feel society's pressure to capitalise first person pronouns.

[insane_alien]

it's really just laziness, i could hit the shift key but my brain keeps going 'meh, leave it'.

 

i'm trying to change, but it's not happening

[michel123456]

I fell like a zombie.

 

In the real life, when you are talking to someone, in the street, in a coffee shop, at school, at home, anywhere, do you hide behind a mask?*

 

If you see someone hiding, it is:

_a thief

_a carnavalist

_a motorcycle driver

_an Afghan female with a burka

 

"Hello, I am Mike, how are you? Fine, thank you."

 

That has been lost on the web, generally speaking.

I made the errouneous thought that maybe this Forum could engage on a more civilized path on the Internet.

 

* I insist it is a mask. This forum is not a game. Some may think they choose an avatar to represent themselves better than what they really are, I don't think so. As an example, for me, as he presents himself, Insane Alien is a young clever exhuberant immature individual who has put himself exactly at the opposite of "homo sapiens" (as his chosen name shows). That is certainly a misjudgment, but not a good start for a conversation...

---------------------

Sorry nothing personal.

 

 

 

 

Another example: Pink_Trike's avatar is The ouroboros (the snake eating his own tail) is a symbol used by alchemists. Not a good start too.

 

Most generally, the avatar plays a role of symbol, intentionaly or unintentionaly, and symbolism is a very complex feature, with different interpretations in different cultures. IMO it is not a good idea to play with such things.

 

---------------------

 

Another example: Sisyphus's avatar is the interpretation is maybe a "intemischievous looking cartoon robot devil" but not only: the gesture of the figure with the hands, the look, the prominent teeths, the colour, the background, everything counts. For me, Sysiphus is a professor, and we are the classroom: terrifying for engaging conversation.

 

---------------

SwansonT's avatar is He has a licence to kill.

 

----------------

 

Phee's avatar is It reminds me a picture that you could encounter on the wall of an old cafe in Belgium, with the eye in a triangle, and the words "God sees you, Here you don't jar" (God ziet U, Hier vreest men niet in flemish language). The Eye of God. Is that you, Φ ?

Edited April 20, 2010 by michel123456

[Klaynos]

I fell like a zombie.

 

In the real life, when you are talking to someone, in the street, in a coffee shop, at school, at home, anywhere, do you hide behind a mask?*

 

If you see someone hiding, it is:

_a thief

_a carnavalist

_a motorcycle driver

_an Afghan female with a burka

 

"Hello, I am Mike, how are you? Fine, thank you."

 

That has been lost on the web, generally speaking.

I made the errouneous thought that maybe this Forum could engage on a more civilized path on the Internet.

 

* I insist it is a mask. This forum is not a game. Some may think they choose an avatar to represent themselves better than what they really are, I don't think so. As an example, for me, as he presents himself, Insane Alien is a young clever exhuberant immature individual who has put himself exactly at the opposite of "homo sapiens" (as his chosen name shows). That is certainly a misjudgment, but not a good start for a conversation...

---------------------

Sorry nothing personal.

 

 

 

 

Another example: Pink_Trike's avatar is The ouroboros (the snake eating his own tail) is a symbol used by alchemists. Not a good start too.

 

Most generally, the avatar plays a role of symbol, intentionaly or unintentionaly, and symbolism is a very complex feature, with different interpretations in different cultures. IMO it is not a good idea to play with such things.

 

---------------------

 

Another example: Sisyphus's avatar is the interpretation is maybe a "intemischievous looking cartoon robot devil" but not only: the gesture of the figure with the hands, the look, the prominent teeths, the colour, the background, everything counts. For me, Sysiphus is a professor, and we are the classroom: terrifying for engaging conversation.

 

---------------

SwansonT's avatar is He has a licence to kill.

 

----------------

 

Phee's avatar is It reminds me a picture that you could encounter on the wall of an old cafe in Belgium, with the eye in a triangle, and the words "God sees you, Here you don't jar" (God ziet U, Hier vreest men niet in flemish language). The Eye of God. Is that you, Φ ?

 

I wonder what you would think of mine? I'll then explain why I have it...

[the tree]

In the real life, when you are talking to someone, in the street, in a coffee shop, at school, at home, anywhere, do you hide behind a mask?*

Only a little bit. I can be a little bit more open on the Internet than IRL.

 

If you see someone hiding, it is:

_a thief

_a carnavalist

_a motorcycle driver

_an Afghan female with a burka

See, in that list only the thief is hiding. In the other cases the mask is decorative, protective and in a kind of complicated way, protective again.

 

 

I insist it is a mask. This forum is not a game. Some may think they choose an avatar to represent themselves better than what they really are, I don't think so.

Would no image at all be a better representation?

 

As an example, for me, as he presents himself, Insane Alien is a young clever exhuberant immature individual who has put himself exactly at the opposite of "homo sapiens" (as his chosen name shows). That is certainly a misjudgment, but not a good start for a conversation...

Really? That's what you'd naturally assume? Over maybe 'he once thought that'd make a cute name'?

 

Phee's avatar is [the ring nebula] It reminds me a picture that you could encounter on the wall of an old cafe in Belgium, with the eye in a triangle, and the words "God sees you, Here you don't jar" (God ziet U, Hier vreest men niet in flemish language). The Eye of God. Is that you, Φ ?

It's fairly obviously the Ring Nebula, which at worst should make you assume Phi has an interest in astronomy.

 

What you've really got to consider is how standard this is across the Internet and how it has been for over a decade. It's really got nothing to do with this specific forum at all.

 

The establishment of an on-line identity is ultimately an act of self expression which is going to be inherently filtered, it's not quite a best-case scenario but it's what people consciously decide to put out there which says a lot more about a person than what they are forced to display by the circumstances dictated by meatspace.

[insane_alien]

... Insane Alien is a young clever exhuberant immature individual who has put himself exactly at the opposite of "homo sapiens" (as his chosen name shows). That is certainly a misjudgment, but not a good start for a conversation...

 

i'd agree with the statements up intil "opposite of homo sapiens" i'm quite human and would like to remain so.

 

but really i just chose the name because it sounded pretty cool and i suppose the fact that it originally came about when playing a space based MMORPG had an influence on it. i just liked it a lot so i reused it here.

 

however, i wholeheartedly and vehemently reject the tree's idea of me think of it as "cute" at any stage past, present or future of my life.

 

if i wanted "cute" i would have went for something like "fluffykins" or something. i don't really do "cute".