Hydrogen from water as fuel

[marton]

Hydrogen produced from water disassociation by mean of a electrical current has been known from at least 150 year.

The hydrogen is one of the most powerful fuels and the same time the most economical to produce and almost infinitely available, just think in all the water in the world. The combustion of a motor running with hydrogen produces water vapor and some oxygen compound as combustion products, plus additional oxygen from the water disassociation.

I think that among all the alternative energies, the most economical and efficient would be the hydrogen produced from water on demand, at least for transportation, that what is your opinion? Unfortunately seems that this won't be possible in the near future due to oil companies’ economical interests.

 

LINK REMOVED

All Engineering information in one site

Edited April 22, 2010 by Klaynos
link removed.

[Klaynos]

You always use more energy creating the hydrogen than you do from combining into water.

[John Cuthber]

Could we run the planet on energy wasted by people who think burning hydrogen is an energy source?

[insane_alien]

and then some. that would probably bump us up to a type III civilization.

 

on the otherhand, hydrogen can potentially be a good form of energy storage.

[marton]

You always use more energy creating the hydrogen than you do from combining into water.

 

Not really, actually the energy used to get the hydrogen from water is several time less that the power content of the hydrogen, the trick here is use the proper electrolyte and a good current source, this could be a good generator.

[insane_alien]

marton, have you ever taken a chemistry class?

[Greippi]

Indeed - it's just not going to work efficiently.

I think the future is designing a cell that takes in carbon dioxide and light and releases water and oxygen, producing energy. But until we fully understand photosynthesis that's unlikely to happen!

[Sisyphus]

actually the energy used to get the hydrogen from water is several time less that the power content of the hydrogen,

 

No, it isn't. Ever. If that were true, that would be a perpetual motion machine, violating fundamental laws of thermodynamics.

[marton]

marton, have you ever taken a chemistry class?

 

Yes I did in college but it isn't my profession, I exactly why you are asking:

In theory if you go by the entropy law and the principle that you cannot get more energy that you use in a process it would be impossible, the trick is how you handle the whole process, in very brief way the water is dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen by mean of a powerful current, the hydrogen feeds and internal combustion engine with some modification to use the more energetic properties of the hydrogen but generating less heat that the combustion with gasoline so less energy is wasted as heat, then the combustion motor moves the generator that is used to feed the hydrogen disassociation and then the cycle is repeated.

 

I do recommend these site for further information

 

I hope that these links aren’t removed from the administrator since they provide relevant information for this theme

 

http://waterpoweredcar.com/inventors.html

http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html

 

Also you can check many videos on youtube regarding this subject

[insane_alien]

water is hard to split up, you cannot chnge this. it takes the same amount of energy no matter the electrolyte. that just reduces resistance losses.

 

both those sites are known hoaxes and have some very bad science on them

[John Cuthber]

He's right; those links provide relevant information. The information being that the idea is total eyewash.

 

Marton,

Re. "the trick is how you handle the whole process, "

There is no "trick" that lets you get round the conservation laws.

Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or lying (or both).

[Mr Skeptic]

It would be awesome if this could be done. However, using water as an energy source is impossible. Why don't you try something that is actually possible, like turning lead into gold?

[Klaynos]

using water as an energy source is impossible.

 

Hydroelectric dams

 

*awaits comment about that being gravity*

[Newbies_Kid]

water alone won't enough to turn the turbine on.

[mississippichem]

Re. "the trick is how you handle the whole process, "

There is no "trick" that lets you get round the conservation laws.

Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or lying (or both).

 

You are right. There are no "tricks", but that doesn't mean one has to use power from the grid to split water. Several transition metal catalyst are currently being developed that utilize sunlight to "photolyze" H2 from water. The enthalpy recquirments are met for splitting water. So using that same hydrogen in, lets say, an automobile fuel cell doesn't yield any net gain in energy, but does yield a profit as sunlight was used to generate the hydrogen to begin with. Of course this is all still in the developmental stages. Last time I checked (saw a seminar at the MS academy of sciences) they had used cyclic voltarymetry [sorry, spelling] to prove that the catalyst displayed an irreversible redox couple from MLCT then to water.

 

http://energy.gov/media/Hydrogen64MillionAttachment.pdf

 

http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/annual_progress05_production.html

 

for the second link, see section F: photoelectrochemical

[Mr Skeptic]

Hydroelectric dams

 

*awaits comment about that being gravity*

 

Solar...