Designing a fire-breathing dragon

[Greippi]

"Utilising your experience and knowledge of biochemistry/genetics/molecular biology, describe how you would go about designing a fire-breathing dragon?"

 

 

 

(One of the final exams for third year biochemistry is a 2 hour essay question that's meant to cover everything you've ever learnt on the degree course. We got the specimen paper for it today, this was one of the option questions. So we just spent a merry afternoon discussing how we would go about answering this question.)

 

I'll post what I came up with later.

[Moontanman]

A large lizard could belch methane and have a catalyst spray into the stream from his salivary glands as it leaves his mouth.

[Greippi]

What sort of catalyst? Where would the methane come from?

[Moontanman]

What sort of catalyst? Where would the methane come from?

 

Well all animals produce some methane in their digestive systems, herbivores more so than carnivores but who says dragons have to carnivores? They could at least be omnivores and the belches could be stored inside their digestive tracts. The catalyst you have me on, platinum is a catalyst for hydrogen and oxygen, i have no idea if it would work for methane and oxygen, maybe he could have platinum teeth coverings?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It could establish a symbiotic relationship with methane-producing bacteria. Give it exceptionally long intestines to ferment with, and a diet to go with the bacteria.

 

Then it has to ignite the methane. I'm not sure how you'd go about that; not many body tissues would survive the heat, or even generate enough heat to light methane.

 

On the other hand, you could use these beasties:

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1109_051109_rocketfuel.html

 

The hydrazine is unstable, and a catalyst (I hear aluminum oxide works, although that's not usually part of a balanced diet) would cause it to decompose in a rather exothermic manner. Dunno if it makes a fireball though.

[Moontanman]

I agree, the flames would fry the tissues of the dragon if the flame ignited inside his body. that's why i proposed spraying some sort of catalyst out through his salivary glands so the methane would ignite after it mixed with the air.

 

The hydrazine producing bacteria are way cool, has to be some way of including them in this scenario!

[Greippi]

Then it has to ignite the methane. I'm not sure how you'd go about that; not many body tissues would survive the heat, or even generate enough heat to light methane.

 

You could use thermostable proteins from bacteria that live by deep sea vents.

Or how about some sort of mucous that contains xanthan gum, which is reasonably flame resistant.

[Moontanman]

Does the dragon have to spray out flames? How about a really poisonous gas?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Hydrazine is used in some hypergolic rocket fuels, where two components ignite when they meet. If you could make both parts (I think the mixture for hydrazine involves methanol and hydrogen peroxide), you could spray them together and have it ignite after it's left the dragon.

[Greippi]

One idea I came up with was make it sneeze fluorescent protein. Maybe give it elevated levels of IgE so it's sensitive to allergens and prone to sneezing!

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Honestly, though, you should make your dragon an homage to Terry Pratchett's dragons.

 

http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Swamp_dragon

[Moontanman]

In Heinlein's book "Glory Road" he had dragons that belched a gaseous substance that ignited from some rocks that catalyzed the reaction, the dragons chewed the rocks to obtain this substance, their breath was terrible and when they belched at you you got to smell the stuff before it ignited, if gave you a chance to jump out of the way of the soon to come flame.

[Charlatan]

"Utilising your experience and knowledge of biochemistry/genetics/molecular biology, describe how you would go about designing a fire-breathing dragon?"

 

 

 

(One of the final exams for third year biochemistry is a 2 hour essay question that's meant to cover everything you've ever learnt on the degree course. We got the specimen paper for it today, this was one of the option questions. So we just spent a merry afternoon discussing how we would go about answering this question.)

 

I'll post what I came up with later.

 

Oh you really pushing buttons now! Before we see if we can, we should think if we should, yes?

 

To make a dragon you need crocodile dna. When you have that, after you take 'em out of action and drain his belly a bit, you will have your strand. Now the strand is making the crocodile small, so, you would need to take the blood and heat them up in a tube so that it will grow bigger, then the whole crocodile grows bigger, yes?

 

Next you would need to take the bigger cells and keep them that big. You can do this by freezing the size by exposure to Oxygen, as then you will, as magma is exposed to Oxygen, see that it will cool down and then become more firm in 'structure'. Then repeat process until you super sized the substance, and, well, it can get bigger and bigger.

 

Now you want to shape it before you make it bigger. To do this you need to take the crocodile dna and apply a feline or canine strand to it. This will result in a monsterou thing, so, keep all the reptilian cells but add the marrow of the canine or feline so that it has the more desirable bone structure.

 

Now you want to give it wings, and I suggest a bat because it has the same bone marrow as the mamalian type of creature, so they will gel. This could take a bit of stress release later, but, it will be worth it for the dragon, if that is what you want...

 

So we have our dragon, the pinnacle of human nightmares. But wait, let's make it breath fire too! What will make it breath fire? Well, if you were to take some glands that produce spasms in the muscles, then you will have propulsion for the fire, that it will travel as 'phlemn' through the air, forwards.

 

To make fire you need to tap the nervous system's energy and direct it outwards through the air. This will require a organ at the back of the throat to push it out, and the lungs will keep it going forwards quickly and with force. To ignite it you will need to make a 'super burp' sort of thing where there is the right gasses mixing with the right compounds, non metals of course. Things like poop are flammable, but you knew that!

 

There we have our dragon. Heaven help us.

[John Cuthber]

There are fungi that produce hydrazine derivatives too.

I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned this little creature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle

 

Hydrazine and hydrogen peroxide was one of the first successful rocket fuel combinations.

[ewmon]

"Projectile" belching of methane so fast that it creates static ignition along the breathing passages but does not ignite until it contacts the oxygen outside the body. (For example, emptied tanks in supertankers are filled with inert gas before washing them because, strangely enough, the high-speed water stream can cause static ignition of the residual petroleum-air vapors!)

[Rip:20]

It could establish a symbiotic relationship with methane-producing bacteria. Give it exceptionally long intestines to ferment with, and a diet to go with the bacteria.

.

 

Methanogensis is restricted to the Archaea, no bacteria have been found to have this metabolic capacity so far.

[Genecks]

I think when I was about 16 I started questioning the possibility of making a dragon through bioengineering. Consider the mythology of dragons: There are those that fly and those that walk. So, technically, you could make a drake (walking dragon) breath fire and still have it called a dragon. With that in mind, instill some kind of sociobiology triggers to make the dragon breathe fire when necessary. Breathing fire for a dragon would be similar to a human throwing punches. So, rises in adrenaline or other chemicals aroused by social stimulation and situation would induce it to breathe fire.

 

What all did the essay really entail? Some biochemistry of how to get it to breathe fire? Or perhaps a way to develop its anatomy and physiology and fire in addition?

 

Sometimes we see similar questions on SFN. I believe someone wanted to find a way to get humans to have wings (I'm guessing like angels). With such things in mind, mitochondrial dispersal and their taxis during development becomes an important aspect. I argued that such a creation would take many trial/error periods, most leading to the death of the developing organism. I don't think it's impractical, but I think it's unnecessary.

 

There would also be a whole realm of physics involved. Perhaps making flight somewhat similar to featherless mammals. With the controversy of dinosaurs having feathers, a person might dare to suggest that dragons should have feathers. But if you were to shy away from feather development, you'd still have to work in flight with reptilian-like skin and scales.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Genecks

[Greippi]

What all did the essay really entail? Some biochemistry of how to get it to breathe fire? Or perhaps a way to develop its anatomy and physiology and fire in addition?

 

Absolutely anything you can think of that comes under the realm of biochemistry/genetics/molecular biology/microbiology. And the description of "fire breathing dragon" can be applied loosely - I got extra marks for my green fluorescent protein idea, because unlike many other ideas involving actual fire, it would actually be possible. It expects a critical analysis of your ideas too.