The Immortal Mouse: Proof of Concept

[Genecks]

If I could make an immortal mouse, would that be proof in concept that I could do it with a human? Let us assume that I'm opening up mice, putting in robot limbs, inserting stem cells, and playing doctor with them. Yes, I know, quite serious stuff. If I could make that mouse live as long as I desired (which means I had to actively open it up and alter its anatomy/physiology) would that be proof of concept that I could do the same with a human?

[ydoaPs]

If I could make an immortal mouse, would that be proof in concept that I could do it with a human? Let us assume that I'm opening up mice, putting in robot limbs, inserting stem cells, and playing doctor with them. Yes, I know, quite serious stuff. If I could make that mouse live as long as I desired (which means I had to actively open it up and alter its anatomy/physiology) would that be proof of concept that I could do the same with a human?

 

You'd probably have to do a chimp as well. This reminds me of the book 'The Immortality Factor' by Ben Bova.

[Variola]

If I could make an immortal mouse, would that be proof in concept that I could do it with a human? Let us assume that I'm opening up mice, putting in robot limbs, inserting stem cells, and playing doctor with them. Yes, I know, quite serious stuff. If I could make that mouse live as long as I desired (which means I had to actively open it up and alter its anatomy/physiology) would that be proof of concept that I could do the same with a human?

 

 

How would you prove the mouse was immortal???

 

If you take the lifespan of a mouse at say 2 years, to make it live to 4 would not prove immortality.

 

Or, if you take immortality as it would not die, then the fact you can still kill it shows that it is not immortal.

 

Plus, how would anyone know if a man was immortal or not? No one would be around long enough to tell.

 

Unless of course you went down the road of a mouse that did not age.

 

I am not just being pedantic here I promise But you have to explore what you are proving first before you prove it.

 

To answer your question though, I'd say the basics would be you have to show it was both replicable and repeatable and to show it in other genetically homologous organisms too.

[Genecks]

I am not just being pedantic here I promise But you have to explore what you are proving first before you prove it.

 

To answer your question though, I'd say the basics would be you have to show it was both replicable and repeatable and to show it in other genetically homologous organisms too.

 

Valid for sure.

 

I think I'm mostly trying to put forth the idea that a person could instate a larger lifespan for a mouse through various surgical and organogenesis techniques. Nonetheless, the mouse could be killed from a falling rock, a poison, etc... So perhaps making an immortal mouse would be difficult to prove, as it would go into assumptions about the current state of the cosmos (whether resources are limited or not).

[insane_alien]

okay, let6s take it as a mouse thats never going to die of old age.

 

If, and its a big if, Genecks were able to create a mouse that reached adulthood and then appeared not to age at all and lives long after it should have died, lets say 10 times its natural life span and still wasn't showing any signs of popping its clogs due to old age then you could probably say it was immortal. sure, it could still die of disease or injury, but its clear that death due to old age isn't going to be a big concern.

 

whether this means a human could be made to be immortal, well, I'm not qualified to say but it would be my opinion that it is at least a very promising indication that yes it is possible.

[Variola]

okay, let6s take it as a mouse thats never going to die of old age.

 

If, and its a big if, Genecks were able to create a mouse that reached adulthood and then appeared not to age at all and lives long after it should have died, lets say 10 times its natural life span and still wasn't showing any signs of popping its clogs due to old age then you could probably say it was immortal. sure, it could still die of disease or injury, but its clear that death due to old age isn't going to be a big concern.

 

whether this means a human could be made to be immortal, well, I'm not qualified to say but it would be my opinion that it is at least a very promising indication that yes it is possible.

 

 

 

Ok we will take it as mice who don't die of old age ( we need more than one to prove it!)

 

Depending on which genes had been altered, you would need to prove the same in a higher organism with homology to mouse and human. But due to the natural life cycle of chimps, pigs etc it would take much longer for absolute proof.

Your results would rely on proof that you had changed cellular activity as opposed to actually showing a mouse hadn't died.

And you would have to show that it was not a detrimental mutation, cancer cells are often immortal because they ignore the signals that normal cells respond to.

[Mr Skeptic]

Yeah, I think that it could be done. Doing it in a mouse would definitely be proof of concept, though it would probably have to be done on chimps before becoming an "official" technique. Of course, I think there would be plenty of human volunteers.

 

For humans, you don't really need to make them immortal (ageless) all in one go. So long as you can just keep extending their lifespan as science progresses, that would also work.