Why wouldn't God exist?

[cypress]

"New form and function is the focus because it is easiest to identify but one could easily include all modifications in that statement."

 

If one includes all modifications, one is not constrained by any information theory rules. And Lenski showed that modifications happened at a much greater rate than 1 per 20,000 generations.

 

Why would one include modifications that are functionally neutral and therefore don't alter information content? Lenski shows us what we already know when he demonstrates large numbers of sequence modifications. Given the mutation rate and genome size one can expect a mutation every 1200 divisions. With the quantity of colonies Lenski's researchers monitored they were getting every single nucleotide replaced every 15 to 30 days. Compare this to the rate in mammals over geologic time where it took/takes 1000's to 100,000's of years to replace every nucleotide. Obviously Lenski was getting modifications and we did not need his experiment to demonstrate this. However very few advantageous modifications were accumulating. In fact there was just one in over 30,000 generations.

 

I think it is time to return to the primary point because these side issues get us nowhere and only obscure the issue. Known evolutionary processes do not accomplish what is predicted, they do not accumulate functional change at the pace required. They don't because we observe that they do not generate functional information at a pace significantly faster than blind search and this makes sense because information entropy laws constrain the increase in information to that of a blind search unless information is imported. Natural processes must conform to the rules of thermodynamics and probability. The staggering amount of digitally encoded functional information required for life is evidence that a mind was the cause of life.

Edited August 1, 2010 by cypress

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Why would one include modifications that are functionally neutral and therefore don't alter information content?

Because, by your own admission, your source for the 10,000 alterations figure may have. If it did, your point about evolution not matching the expected rate would be unfounded, because evolution could easily account for 10,000 neutral alterations.

[cypress]

If this is what you took from my words than I misspoke. The overall message from my posts in total should indicate my position.

[cypress]

Yes, we really disagree on this. I think it is best to start a separate thread on information. I'd start one for you but I'd like you to have the chance to choose the title and the contents of the first post in it. Just link to it here for others to follow. Feel free to copy/paste to save time.

 

 

 

I have struggled since you suggested this on how to introduce this new thread and where to put it. How about you get it started?

[Mr Skeptic]

I have struggled since you suggested this on how to introduce this new thread and where to put it. How about you get it started?

 

OK, I placed it in Computer Science since they have to deal with storing and transmitting information.

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/51133-what-is-information/