Possible perpetual motion idea for electrical energy

[random]

I'm rather partial to the radio frequency Idea I watched an experiment once I think on a show called myth busters wherein the proved by tapping into an objects frequency very little energy could set an extremely large bridge vibrating. They used a compact "pendulum" like device which maybe weighed a few pounds that could be adjusted to the frequency of the bridge and they set the whole thing vibrating, one has to speculate this energy could be converted into a power source and since it is IMO amplified power it could be argued as a free energy source.

[insane_alien]

I'm rather partial to the radio frequency Idea I watched an experiment once I think on a show called myth busters wherein the proved by tapping into an objects frequency very little energy could set an extremely large bridge vibrating. They used a compact "pendulum" like device which maybe weighed a few pounds that could be adjusted to the frequency of the bridge and they set the whole thing vibrating, one has to speculate this energy could be converted into a power source and since it is IMO amplified power it could be argued as a free energy source.

 

it is not amplified power.

 

what is happening is that the bridge isn't losing very much energy at that frequency so it allows small perturbations to accumulate until the rate of energy loss matches the rate of energy input with a relatively large energy resevoir contained in the structure.

 

think of it this way:

 

you have a bucket and you put a small pinhole in the bottom. now you start dripping water in slowly. the water level will rise until the rate of the water leaking out the bottom matches what you are putting in at the top. you 'll even be able to get a full bucket of water if you balance the rates right.

 

what you are talking about with the vibrating bridge is to do the bucket idea, and then have more water leaking out of the bottom than you put in.

 

its absurd.

[swansont]

What insane_alien said.

 

Resonance means you've minimized losses and stored a lot of energy in the oscillating system, but it will be no greater than the energy you put in.

[TonyMcC]

If you have a mechanical system that is responding to force that is changing at its resonant frequency it is quite possible to damp the resulting oscillations. The amount of energy the damping system has to absorb will be relatively small. If you tried to extract energy from an undamped system this would have a damping effect on the oscillations - as had been said before, you can't get more energy out of the system than was put into the system which caused the oscillations.

[JustinW]

I had an idea once that is probably as ignorant as it sounds. What if you had a fan that blew wind into some sort of impeller or prop that inturn operated a generator. The electrical current from the generator could then be routed back to power the fan motor. I disregarded the idea because of size and scope. To produce any significant amount of power the fan would have to be fairly large to produce the tork necessary to power the generator. Then you would have to worry about producing enough energy to even power the fan, as large as it would have to be, let alone come up with a (worth while) extra amount of energy. Just throwing it out there.

[TonyMcC]

I had an idea once that is probably as ignorant as it sounds. What if you had a fan that blew wind into some sort of impeller or prop that inturn operated a generator. The electrical current from the generator could then be routed back to power the fan motor. I disregarded the idea because of size and scope. To produce any significant amount of power the fan would have to be fairly large to produce the tork necessary to power the generator. Then you would have to worry about producing enough energy to even power the fan, as large as it would have to be, let alone come up with a (worth while) extra amount of energy. Just throwing it out there.

 

Your worry is justified. I think you have seen for yourself that the generator will not produce enough power to drive the fan.

[slavenenco]

I think that it might actually work, but i also think that producing energy from radio waves or static electricity, would be a lot more efficient, tesla invented something like that...

[sammy7]

i watched a documentary the other day(cant remember what it was) where they were talking about guys that have come up with this kind of stuff (like maybe not "free" energy but like nearing equilibrium if thats the right way to put it?) umm yeah and they were saying the standard thing is--attempt to buy patent off the guy for millions, if they refuse and maybe also if they refuse to stop trying to get it out commercially -well some dudes have been dying under suspicious circumstances lol....

[zapatos]

...-well some dudes have been dying under suspicious circumstances lol....

Just curious why you find this funny...

[doG]

Doesn't Newton's First law, the velocity of a body remains constant unless the body is acted upon by an external force, imply that all motion is perpetual until acted on by an external force? A force like friction or gravity? That the velocity would be forever constant if it weren't for such external forces?

[swansont]

EDIT : some mod moved my last post to speculation trashcan. Therefore I find it most necessary to ONCE AGAIN post the math. Math is not speculation.

 

!

Moderator Note

Math is not speculation, but then, math is not physics, either. Physics requires a connection to the real world, i.e. one has to show that nature actually behaves according to the math.

 

I moved your post, because it is a thread hijack and a speculative response to a thread in a mainstream science section, both of which are against the rules you agreed to follow when you joined. Discuss your material in its own thread. That's the ONLY place you are permitted to discuss it. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66692-magnetism-is-overlooked-in-physics/

 

As such, the post here is deleted.

[dragonstar57]

Precisely. It's not a system that resembles planets orbiting a star. That's been outdated for some time.

totally off topic but this raises the question of why do schools still teach the orbit model at all if we know it is wrong?

[A Tripolation]

totally off topic but this raises the question of why do schools still teach the orbit model at all if we know it is wrong?

 

You're still taught gravity "pulls you down".

You're still taught light is "photons" or "waves".

You're still taught the sun "is on fire".

You're still taught you live in "three dimensions".

You're still taught everything can be modeled like billiard balls bouncing off of each other.

 

Why do we do this? Because the truth is vastly more complex than your average human can understand. And not really...important in the grand scheme of things.

Event the highly skilled people only truly understand one subset of a subset, or some such knowledge path.

 

Simplification is better, sometimes.

[pcalton]

Now im sure some of you have seen these magnetic electrical generators claiming to produce electrical energy non stop, and i know that these machines generally do not exist PERPETUALLY... Here is my question

 

 

If I were to test magnetism in a vacuum on the earth, would the magnetic properties be affected?

 

>>>I think more information about a vacuum could be of help. Some scientists believe that vaccumes do not exist because they contain particles and waves. It would be am interesting experiment especially if some more is learned about vaccumes. Magnet-related energy production has been a pet theory of mine for 60-years. My dad always squashed my ideas about perpetual motion. He would say over and over "Friction! Friction will make stop!" the other day I viewed A video from TED Boaz Almog “levitates” a superconductor. Take a look at evidence of quantum mechanics' method of greatly reducing or eliminating friction.

Oh daddy, oh daddy, my magnetic theories of energy is ALIVE, IT'S ALIVE.

I would settle for near-perpetual motion. If a device produced energy for storing it could start itself up again.

 

 

 

ive looked online and cant seem to find any practical data or an experiment which has been produced

[timetes]

i agree. I think the friction of two magnets repelling each other is energy......now store it. During this storm Sandy....a maintenance man used a battery and a power inverter used in campers.... it kept the battery running... there has to be a way to store energy.

[ox1111]

Why do peole try to find perp. motion. We have green energy, it works kind of. A solar cell is perp. to you because you will die before the sun does. I know why. People want to be rich or brilliant, so I will give you guys some good advice. Don't invent perp. motion. Invent energy from an abundant sorce or waste. Like landfill or wind or solar, they are around because they make sense. Here I will give you some leads. Deep ocean currants in off south america or california are vast supplies of cold compared to the vastly warm air in thoughs parts of the world, go to town.

[Anubis-UK]

i thought could you not use the meissner effect to turn a generator in some way???

 

long shot

[ox1111]

A magnet is see by many as free energy, look at it as a spring. You push or pull a spring it stores energy and then releases that energy and then you push or pull it again, nothing perp.

[Przemyslaw.Gruchala]

Satellites have losses and orbits decay.

 

Satellites are bombarded by photons and neutrinos all the time, not to mention particles from Sun eruptions.

 

Why do peole try to find perp. motion. We have green energy, it works kind of. A solar cell is perp. to you because you will die before the sun does. I know why. People want to be rich or brilliant, so I will give you guys some good advice. Don't invent perp. motion. Invent energy from an abundant sorce or waste. Like landfill or wind or solar, they are around because they make sense. Here I will give you some leads. Deep ocean currants in off south america or california are vast supplies of cold compared to the vastly warm air in thoughs parts of the world, go to town.

 

Your example sources of energy are damn expensive to develop. It's million or billions investment to build solar panel array for few thousands of people.

[efzauner]

Don't the moderators automatically delete any thread on perpetual motion machines?

[Fuzzwood]

Apparently not as long as a thread doesn't decay into "LALALALA cant hear you, you are wrong and I am right" kind of threads.

[hoola]

I can well understand the attraction to the idea of perpetual motion by anyone...this perhaps been enhanced by the discovery in 1996 that the universe is expanding, and at an increasing rate, and the action at work is something called "dark energy". There had been before this remarkable discovery an effect in a vacuum called "virtual particles" which seem to arise and them collapse everywhere all the time...the question as to whether the dark energy at work in the universe is the same force previously known as virtual particles is actually being the same force, is a good question. They do seem so to me. It is strange that something called negative energy or virtual particles can be present and quantifiable in the universe and not make a person think...that if the basic fundamentals were known about these seemingly free sources of energy, why couldn't a technolgy be developed to harness them. I have read of "zero-point" energy and have heard that with our current understanding of the energy source, we can conclude that any power being extracted from them in any useable form...as the extraction of any energy from such a diffuse system as dark energy , virtual particles or zero point energy (all the same thing?) would require a vast array of yet to be developed hardware, and would never deliver enough power to make the energy investment in the acquisition of this power come to parity, hence would be a net power loss. A laboratory curiousity I would love to see, nonetheless.....perhaps on the order of a "dark energy radiometer" or that ostrich toy that bobs up and down sticking it's head in a water glass......unless of course a strict definition of how these energies are produced, then perhaps parity can not only be achieved but real work or energy can be extracted from a reasonable sized apparatus by manipulating the fundamental informational structures of the universe. That seems like 22nd century science at the soonest, if ever.....edd