Prager and Americas Problems

[rigney]

It's strange how many of us find politics distasteful unless they are being discussed at our convenience and meet our convictions. To show you how much of a politician I am, got an email from a friend in Alabama this morning. She is a Bible thumpin', fire and brimstone preaching, Southern Babptist who is screaming about the gulf oil spill. Love her to death, but you get the message? Sent me this video of a guy named Dennis Prager. Have no idea when it was made, but he is a news analyst, writer, speaker; yada yada yada. But his take on todays situation is one I've held for an entire lifetime in dealing with policy. You may or may not agree, but it sure gave me pause to think?? I grew into my teens during WWII and was as patriotic as the next guy. I didn't vote for Ike, and my first vote was cast for J.F.K., but I have been a rightist ever since. My question now is, will America continue to assimilate as a nation, or will we go the way of so many former great powers, to quietly cede that right?

So, regardless of your answer; jump in. I'm too old to be anything other than judgmental.

 

Connection: Dennis Prager

Edited June 20, 2010 by rigney

[jackson33]

rigney; Dennis Prager, is a long time (28 Years) Atlanta Conservative Radio Host and activist and that tape was produced 6/15/2010.

 

On "American Exceptionalism"; I totally agree with the obvious premise, but am concerned about flaunting the message. Then I would suggest it's our system of Government and the traditional heritage of the people in supporting that Government (past 18 months excluded), that has made the difference and exceptional. Outside the two American Continents, most all Nations have been around for thousands of years, in one form or another and have been dependent on the US in many ways for 100 years.

 

My question now is, will America continue to assimilate as a nation, or will we go the way of so many former great powers, to quietly cede that right? [/Quote]

 

The easy answer is; It depends on the people themselves, their are a great many new demographics, which formed after WWII, women working to age/ethnic/race/nationality and the Welfare Programs have eliminated a good share of the 'Individualism' of the Society, leaning toward the collective.

 

The more difficult prediction; YES, I think the US will survive this sudden jerk in the 'Status Quo', rebounding with a vengeance, probably lead by the women (lead by or electing) in this Country. The serious problems are financial and I'm not sure this can be overcome in less than 40-50 years, without a major reversal in and of policy.

[rigney]

Jackson 33, You may think this was done as a ruse to curry some attention, but I assure you; it wasn't meant that way at all! I watched the video this morning and thought,! Holy Crap is this real?! Other than voting, I'm probably as ignorant about politics as a babe in the woods and probably should never have been so damn naive. But what bothers me most is that many folks my age feel as I do and are looked on by a younger set as a bunch of nuts. Are we? I hope you're right about only needing forty or fifty years to rectify the situation. Likely I'll only have another five or ten to worry about. But I pity those of the next generation who postulate my convictions and will be trying to work through this swirling cesspool we're now in. Thanks

Edited June 21, 2010 by rigney

[ParanoiA]

Finding it difficult to really care about politics right now, but Prager hits on something interesting, about passing on what "American" means. I'm also disturbed by the "American Exceptionalism" appeal. Sounds like a nationalist propaganda tool more than anything else.

 

What "being american" means would have been nice to pass down, as he says. Explaining the difference between Equal Outcome verses Equal Opportunity and that america is about the latter, not the former. And more than any of that, that america is about self determination and looking inward for innovation and growth, not looking across the proverbial pond to see how we should be evolving.

 

That's the "exceptionalism" that I prefer. Not the kind that suggests we are better than everyone else due to some magical patriotic force, but rather the kind that suggests "we don't care how they do it, we do it like this". The kind of exceptionalism that says while many countries may look to each other for comparison, and seem to be evolving to the same core mentallity, America evolves on its own terms, its own way, and doesn't apologize to anyone for it. And has no desire to emulate anyone other than itself. That's the kind of exceptionalism I wish we could find again.

 

It's a lost cause. The experiment with self governing in a free society is history now. We traded freedom for appearances of security, both economically and socially and we romanticize our past as if we have anything in common with it. We haven't met a principle we can't think around. We haven't made a promise we can't wiggle out of.

 

America. Makes for an interesting book. That's about it.

[Moontanman]

I think people like Prager are more likely a source of the problems than a solution to them. America is made up of Conservative and Progressive forces, the balance between them is what makes us great, when one wins out we all loose in some way. Almost all internal crisis have been generated by a lack of balance, neither side is capable of governing competently, only by seeking a balance do we have a chance of staying great.

 

Other countries where there is only one point of view are almost by definition less than capable of allow a person to be great, with out great people you do not get a great political system. It doesn't mean great is always right but the possibility of greatness has to be there before greatness can occur. Sometimes great is Conservative sometimes it's Progressive but it's always above the mediocre.

[rigney]

Appreciate the input Moontan. but would you like this "Knock down drag out, ass kickin" to end"? Naa!, I think not. It's what America is all about. In essence, if you don't like what's going on, give it a couple years and change the system. Four years, change the policy. Not being boastful, but America, with it's good, bad and "blase indefference", is the worlds greatest hope in the coming millennia. Why, because we are such a melting pot of overall humanity; and it's this diversity which welds us together into such a nation. It's sad that some folks living among us are unhappy and would destroy this Utopia just for the sake of trying something entirely different. "Bless their Pea Pickin' Hearts".

Edited June 23, 2010 by rigney

[Moontanman]

Appreciate the input Moontan. but would you like this "Knock down drag out, ass kickin" to end"? Naa!, I think not. It's what America is all about. In essence, if you don't like what's going on, give it a couple years and change the system. Four years, change the policy. Not being boastful, but America, with it's good, bad and "blase indefference", is the worlds greatest hope in the coming millennia. Why, because we are such a melting pot of overall humanity; and it's this diversity which welds us together into such a nation.

 

 

This I agree with, the give and take of the people is what makes it work. With out it we would slowly coast to a stop

 

 

It's sad that some folks living among us are unhappy and would destroy this Utopia just for the sake of trying something entirely different. "Bless their Pea Pickin' Hearts".

 

So the only people who should make the decisions are the ones you agree with? Everyone else is trying to destroy us? The give and take causes us to change directions, some times the driver is slow and makes wide turns but it's better than a driver that only turns one way, that results in circles... I firmly believe what worked 200 years ago just might not work quite as well now, our ability to adapt/change is what makes any people or nation great. Not being able to adapt leads to extinction for species and nations.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Moontanman

[rigney]

 

 

This I agree with, the give and take of the people is what makes it work. With out it we would slowly coast to a stop

 

 

 

 

So the only people who should make the decisions are the ones you agree with? Everyone else is trying to destroy us? The give and take causes us to change directions, some times the driver is slow and makes wide turns but it's better than a driver that only turns one way, that results in circles... I firmly believe what worked 200 years ago just might not work quite as well now, our ability to adapt/change is what makes any people or nation great. Not being able to adapt leads to extinction for species and nations.

 

 

If you mean will I fight against abandonment of our system of government and allow it to give way to mob rule and Anarchy, or crown someone emperor just to please a few malcontents? "Bet on it; I will fight". But I said nothing about having to agree with me on any issue. Just respect the wishes of a "legitimate" majority. But, if we abandon normal principals and Anarchy become rule, then what?

Edited June 23, 2010 by rigney
Consecutive posts merged.

[Moontanman]

 

 

If you mean will I fight against abandonment of our system of government and allow it to give way to mob rule and Anarchy' date=' or crown someone emperor just to please a few malcontents? "Bet on it; I will fight". But I said nothing about having to agree with me on any issue. Just respect the wishes of a "legitimate" majority. But, if we abandon normal principals and Anarchy become rule, then what?[/quote']

 

Over the course of our country people then would see how we live and the laws we live by not to mention how our government operates extraordinarily different from what they "knew" had to happen for government to work. Black people allowed to live like whites? Orientals? Unemployment? Minimum wage? Rights for anyone other than the rich and powerful? Equality for all? Rules against what we can hunt and kill and sell? Laws against drugs? BLASPHEMY! Our government evolves to fit the situation, no one document can possibly rule a people forever, no one type of government can either. What you see as abandonment is simply the evolution of government for the people by the people. The future is only possible if we are willing to abandon the things that no longer work and try new things, one day things we would feel are outrageously unamerican will be law and every one will wonder why we were so stupid.

[rigney]

 

Over the course of our country people then would see how we live and the laws we live by not to mention how our government operates extraordinarily different from what they "knew" had to happen for government to work. Black people allowed to live like whites? Orientals? Unemployment? Minimum wage? Rights for anyone other than the rich and powerful? Equality for all? Rules against what we can hunt and kill and sell? Laws against drugs? BLASPHEMY! Our government evolves to fit the situation' date=' no one document can possibly rule a people forever, no one type of government can either. What you see as abandonment is simply the evolution of government for the people by the people. The future is only possible if we are willing to abandon the things that no longer work and try new things, one day things we would feel are outrageously unamerican will be law and every one will wonder why we were so stupid.[/quote']

 

Moon,I believe that I'm beginning to get your drift, and sorry that I'm a bit slow on the uptake. But are

you suggesting we repeal our laws, trash or rewrite our Constitution and Declaration of Independance? And if so, to whom or what do we make this appeasment; if I might ask? Rigney

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

 

 

This I agree with, the give and take of the people is what makes it work. With out it we would slowly coast to a stop

 

 

 

 

So the only people who should make the decisions are the ones you agree with? Everyone else is trying to destroy us? The give and take causes us to change directions, some times the driver is slow and makes wide turns but it's better than a driver that only turns one way, that results in circles... I firmly believe what worked 200 years ago just might not work quite as well now, our ability to adapt/change is what makes any people or nation great. Not being able to adapt leads to extinction for species and nations.

 

You said that Moon, not me. I merely stated there are some folks in this country who would kick our four hundred year history to the curb in a heart beat.

Edited June 24, 2010 by rigney
Consecutive posts merged.

[ParanoiA]

Our government evolves to fit the situation, no one document can possibly rule a people forever, no one type of government can either. What you see as abandonment is simply the evolution of government for the people by the people. The future is only possible if we are willing to abandon the things that no longer work and try new things, one day things we would feel are outrageously unamerican will be law and every one will wonder why we were so stupid.

 

I disagree that one document can't rule a people forever. The Constitution, for example, is more or less an expression of our committment to certain principles we see as timeless. And we can update these principles as time evolves, as is built into the design of the document.

 

Like the scientific method, the constitution is not merely a piece of paper but rather a methodology of operation. The words written on that piece of paper invoke a philosophical system, a guide, to self governance. Just like the scientific method is a philosophical system to govern the fallibility of inductive reasoning.

 

The minute detail may always evolve, but the principles that guide these methodologies are timeless.

 

Well, as long as we are committed to them anyway...

[rigney]

Well Paranoid one, I honestly don't believe it could have been better stated. Our Constitution was created by some the most prolific educators this world will ever know. College grads? I doubt if a single one of them could have stood up to such a background check. But their combined common sense was beyond reproach. Using variables of law, going back to perhaps before Solomon, and with the Magna Carta of England as their primary guide, each signee of our Constitution proposed and proclaimed: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness to the individual. While this was not a mandate to happen over night, it has over time come to fruition.

God help us if we eventually allow it to be destroyed.

Edited June 24, 2010 by rigney

[Pangloss]

BTW, guys, just FYI, when you double-quote, you have to end-quote twice as well. For example (using parentheses instead of brackets):

 

(quote=ParanoiA)(quote=Pangloss)What's the best way to run a society?(/quote)From each according to his ability, to each according to his need!(/quote)

 

Would appear as:

What's the best way to run a society?[/quote']From each according to his ability' date=' to each according to his need![b']

[/b]

[rigney]

Pangloss, Personally I'm still having problems with forum procedure, computers and the english language in general. None of the priors puts the best foor forward for this hill billy kid. Rigney

Edited June 24, 2010 by rigney

[Pangloss]

You're doing fine.

[rigney]

Into this life we are let, first only asking; then to our fame

Oh! so quickly do we leave, taking not; but as we came. (ME)