Continuous, or Perpetual Motion

[rigney]

I don't believe our universe will last forever in its present state or any other state for that matter. But since I believe it to be ever evolving, we might call that Perpetual. Other than that, to me perpetual motion is a no no. But what if a man made contraption could be created that might operate for say, a thousand years continuously of its own volition? No wind, no nuke, no water falls or rivers to assist in the process? At least we could call it un-interrupted for that short period of time!

I've seen a few experiments done with capacitive inductance that look a bit promising, but nothing that would even power a small motor for any length of time. Yet, at the atomic level and below, this seems to be the norm. Why?

Edited June 21, 2010 by rigney

[insane_alien]

you canmake something that will keep going essentially forever, but you will not be able o power anything with it.

 

the moment you start extracting energy from the device, it will start to stop moving.

[rigney]

you canmake something that will keep going essentially forever, but you will not be able o power anything with it.

 

the moment you start extracting energy from the device, it will start to stop moving.

 

What can we make that will keep operating essentially forever? And why do atoms and their sub-components seem to retain this perpetuity, yet supply the power for everything that exists?

Edited June 21, 2010 by rigney

[insane_alien]

well, you can make a current go round a superconducting ring without a permanent voltage source, two orbiting bodies will keep orbiting each other for billions of years, there are a number of things, none will do anything useful.

[swansont]

At the atomic level and below you observe quantized energy states, making it impossible to lose energy when you're in the ground state. But that does not involve motion as we classically know it, a single state has no entropy, and you can't get any energy out.

[cypress]

What can we make that will keep operating essentially forever? And why do atoms and their sub-components seem to retain this perpetuity, yet supply the power for everything that exists?

 

Anything with a particular energy level, be it quantum or macro retains that energy unless it interacts with another thing and energy is transfered. Atoms and subatomic particles regularly transfer energy back and forth thus continuing the cycle. Were it possible to isolate something perfectly it would retain its current energy state in perpetuity.

 

Power can currently be extracted from high energy systems of particles and transfered to lower energy systems thus performing work until these higher energy systems are exhausted. All indications are that his won't last forever, though there is insufficient data to know for certain.

[ewmon]

What can we make that will keep operating essentially forever?

We can chuck a satellite into orbit that pretty much goes forever.

[rigney]

You may be right Ewmon, but I rather doubt it. At present, other than deep space probes? Our space station for example, unless we give it a kick from time to time, it will fall. Then, look at how much it cost to put it up there. That's what you might call "Perpetual open wallet"

Edited June 22, 2010 by rigney

[Leader Bee]

By that logic does it mean that Earth will not continue in its orbit and will eventually fall into the sun? (provided we assume the sun will remain a main sequence star and not expand)

[insane_alien]

You may be right Ewmon, but I rather doubt it. At present, other than deep space probes? Our space station for example, unless we give it a kick from time to time, it will fall.

 

this is due to drag from the tenuous atmosphere that extends that high. if the earth lacked an atmosphere then we would not have to boost it every now and again.

[rigney]

By that logic does it mean that Earth will not continue in its orbit and will eventually fall into the sun? (provided we assume the sun will remain a main sequence star and not expand)

 

 

I'd really like to answer that question Leader Bee, but unfortunately, I honestly don't believe any of our species will be around to witness such an event. And yes, earth will be gone at some future time, not to be swallowed into the sun, but atomized and vaporizd back into a plazma, as our sun begins a search for its own death!

Edited June 22, 2010 by rigney

[Blakelyneal]

...I see what you mean, like why can't we harness the movement of electrons...

 

I mean I don't think I will see the day that something like that could ever be done or a machine small enough to accomplish it but it would be pretty cool.

 

Or maybe if we made a giant dynamo powered by a planet/moon orbit... until they collapse into each other =p

[swansont]

...I see what you mean, like why can't we harness the movement of electrons...

 

We do. It's called electricity, though it not perpetual.

 

Why we can't harness the motion of electrons in atomic orbitals, I refer to my post earlier in this thread.

[mississippichem]

The Feynman ratchet seems to come so close...yet it falls so far. Thermodynamics: the only science more dismal than economics.

[Mr Skeptic]

I think there must be some way to cheat the laws of thermodynamics. Even if the only way to do so is to make a new universe.

[rigney]

I think there must be some way to cheat the laws of thermodynamics. Even if the only way to do so is to make a new universe.

 

 

 

But Mr. S, are you "ready" for such an innovation??

[Mr Skeptic]

Sure, I'd make a universe right now if I knew how.