Society Today

[Bazzyrick]

This is (hopefully) going to become quite a large debate and I will be mentioning many different groups of people in it. I would like to say however that I am not intending to insult or poke fun at ANY of the groups I will mention, nor am I trying to start a massive argument. I love nothing more than to debate things calmly and intellectually with other people. I have many questions and confusions about all of these different groups and the reason for this thread is to hopefully see if people can explain what causes some of the many things I will be listing.

 

Also let me say I am an Agnostic and an absolute adorer of all things Science. Now lets begin.

 

 

Religion

Yes I am sure some of you are already thinking.. not this again.. but let me say, while I have many issues with Religion I also know of its many good points. Also like I said, I am Agnostic. I am pretty firm in my belief that there is no God, but there is no evidence to prove it, which is why I am not Athiest. Religion has gone through many different stages over its long life. Some of its earliest successes were giving people basic rules to live by and also helping to unite people. We would not be the society we are today without it, would we be better or worse? No clue. However I now believe it has reached an almost defunct state. Some people I have previously discussed this with say it still gives us moral guidance and rules, but I disagree. We have laws nowadays and I think the actual fear that your life could be ruined if you commit a crime is more effective than the fear that you MIGHT go to Hell or whatever. Also on morality I dont think Religion has a big enough part in 99.9999% of the Western Worlds lives anymore to guide our morals. Our society is a truly sad sight today. One of the things that truly annoys me is people sueing each other or trying to ruin each others lives through the use of Lawyers. Moral? I dont think so. I was hospitalised for 2 weeks through an accident at work once and it was actually the managers neglegence that caused it. Some of my family even encouraged me to sue her, one of them goes to Church 3 times a week and is constantly doing some big activity with the Church as one of the lead organisers as well. I am sorry but WHAT? I did not sue, I discussed it with my manager when I went back and she was very apologetic and has since sorted out the problem in question and we both get along better now. I think thats a better solution dont you? If I had sued, yay I might of got a few extra quid in my back pocket but I would of made other people suffer to get it. Anyway yea, most peoples morals are guided entirely by their own mind these days, not Religion. 'Live and let Live' is one of my favourite lines, thats what guides my morals. Also about Religion I believe it causes to many problems for it to be worth keeping as well. It can, has and will be used for mass manipulation and for greed. I wont start listing various examples such as some of histories most astrocious events and some that are happening right now in this modern day, I am sure you all know them.

 

Its not all bad however, Religion has good sides. I think some different Religions do still give its followers true guidance (some may be manipulation however) though not so much in the Western World. One big thing a friend said is it gives people hope. A possible afterlife. I agree yes it does, but I dont agree that it is a good thing. There is no proof to say there is an afterlife and this could and probably is causing people to waste their lives with false hopes. Imagine your a child again, your parents get you in the car and say, We are going to Disney Land! Imagine your dissapointment when it turned out to be the Dentists. False hope is a terrible thing. He then came back with a very difficult (and possibly slightly unfair) point. He said what if someone is born with a crippling disability. They cant live a normal life in any way whatsoever, they miss out on all the wonders of life and they die young. Is it wrong that these people believe in an afterlife? That their life was just a pointless accident? I cant even remember what I said, if I did say anything. I am pretty unemotional and realistic but if I answered realisticly it could of made me sound like such an evil.. something. Anyway other good points, I believe I said it helped Society develop through its earlier days.

 

So my final judgement on Religion? I believe it is far to big a part of our lives these days. It gives false hope, causes conflict, creates barriers, manipulates and its basic teachings arent necessary anymore. I dont think it should be obliterated entirely however. What I think would be acceptable, is no more hierachys. No more priests, no popes, no church services, no rituals. The hierachy gives people position of power and these are used for mass manipulation in some incredibly infamous ways (Crusade anyone? Free ticket to Heaven if you join!). The one that really does anger me is the Catholic Pope. How can one man, chosen by other men, speak the word of God? How? Some people worship HIM. Having anyone with more power in the Religious area means some form of manipulation, no matter how small can take place. People are free to believe Religions teaching if they wish, but if they didnt take them so seriously, didnt devote time to it and didnt allow someone else to 'teach' them about it. Then I think we would be good. Imagine if suddenly Science became a 'Religion'. At the moment scientists find stuff out and let us know about it, we believe it or we dont. Yet if it becomes a Religion we are suddenly being imposed with these things in dedicated buildings, people will twist facts and even make stuff up to start controlling us. Anyway.. a complicated matter surely. It needs to be toned down severely. So its a casual belief we can have on the side, but not have it intrude on our lives in any way.

 

 

Crime

Now I said earlier 'Live and let Live' is one of my favourite sayings. We have laws in place which have developed over many years to try to ensure we live in a fair society. We dont obviously, but its certainly better with the laws than without. I dont believe punishment is harsh enough these days. I live in the UK where crime punishment is (I believe) fairly light compared to other places. Firstly let me make it clear, when I say harsh I do NOT mean the death penalty. I absolutley and firmly believe no person has ANY right to remove the life of another person, regardless of what that person has done. I dont care if they stole a loaf of bread or killed a thousand people. Just NO. What I believe should be done is this. Instead of locking them up in cells for certain amounts of time, we should create facilities where these people can do some kind of work to recontribute to society to hopefully make up for the damage they caused. I truly dont care what the work is, dredging sewers or assembling electronics. The sentences should be much larger to. I think its 25 years approximately for murder in the UK? It should be 50 imho. Stealing should give 10 years at least. The working should also help generate profits for the prison systems as well, meaning covering the costs of the prisoners will be less damaging to our economies. An example would be a factory which hand assembles furniture or something. Can have its products assembled by prisoners by paying the prison systems. The prison basically hires its workers out (for a lot cheaper than a minimum wage worker), but obviously, none of the money goes to the prisoners. It goes back into the prison, or into the countries economy. Whichever. There is one problem which this however, it would cause unemployment. What Governments could do is impose plans for startup businesses. Encourage people to create a business doing whatever, yet to use prisoners as workers. I believe a big problem in the current world is people arent starting up businesses as often as they used to, due to high costs. People would be more likely to if the Government would back them in some way and if they could get much cheaper employees. There is other problems of course, sending prisoners off-site. They could try to find permanent ways of making the prisoners do the work inside prisons somehow, but if they were going to be taken somewhere else to do work, if it had to be that way, then extra jobs could be created for police escorts. Whatever the solution I truly think sentences should be much longer and some sort of labour should be done during the entire sentence, for no pay. It would benefit society and it would also act as a greater deterrent to crime. It could cause the problem of unemployment, obviously the Governments would have to think long and hard about how to avoid it, but with the lower amount of prisoners and helping to create extra businesses. It could balance out nicely. On the topic of crime, do they not make underground prisons? I dont mean like basement level, I mean deep underground. Theres plenty of room down there lol, and its not using up land. Just a thought.

 

The Ideal World?

I would love to see a World where all of humanity was united. Where we werent seperated by beliefs and all the other stuff. Where everyone considered Scientific Advancement the most important thing there is and encouraging more people to train as Scientists. People arent motivated by money, the many many many ways we can legally ruin each others lives are abolished and the endless amounts of stereotypes and prejudices are gone.

 

 

I look forward to debating all of this stuff with you, and also please remember what I said first. I was not intending to flame or attack anyone, nor do I want to start a big riot. If I ever sounded/appeared to be angry I wasn't, (people often misunderstand my tone and attitude, I appear harsh without intending to). Please keep it all civilised

 

PS: I apologise for the many spelling/grammar mistakes there probably is

[Phi for All]

It's always best to focus on one idea at a time. This keeps people on topic and the discussions sharp and well-defined. You're covering too many concepts here with one broad opening post.

 

I'd suggest you pick one of these concepts (the ideal world would be a good one) and leave the others for a later time. Once you have 30 posts you'll be eligible for our Religion and our Politics sub-forums and you can bring those topics up.

 

I can edit this thread for you if you like. I just think you're going to get a lot of muddled effort with so many different things to talk about in one thread. In science, the best experiments focus on testing one idea so your results aren't tarnished with extraneous input.

[Bazzyrick]

You can delete it if you want, ill hold the religious banter for later and just restart an ideal world thread.