Stusi Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 Ok i understand flash powder is more of a "bright light" type of effect, but i have also heard of people using it in place of black powder. So i'm just curious, whats the difference? Im guessing flash powder is not as loud as BP but brighter? Just kinda curious.
budullewraagh Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 gee, don't you like visual effects there are many types of flash powder. flash powders area made from rapid oxidation of metals. a good example would be a [math]KClO_3[/math]+ Mg flash powder. mixed together, they are stable. add heat and the chlorate oxidizes the magnesium. in black powder, the carbon and sulfur are oxidized by the nitrate. so, in a way, they are similar in that both are simple redox reactions.
YT2095 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 flash power is MUCH more powerfull and louder than BP, the only main drawback is that it can be dead pressed, whereas BP doesn`t suffer this failing.
jgerlica Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Side note: The "flash powder" most people are familiar with is nothing more than finely ground black powder and aluminum.
YT2095 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 Side note: The "flash powder" most people are familiar with is nothing more than finely ground black powder and aluminum. that`s gotta be the home made stuff then, as I`ve never encountered that composition as a flash powder before. the stuff I get is the 70/30 KClO3 and dark flake pyro grade Alu with a pinch of Barium Chlorate as a color adjuster.
5614 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 is this a bit dangerous to carry out in a lab, is there not a risk of blinding yourself? or is it a matter of quantity used, in which case, what quantity is suitable for a good effect, but no risk of blindness?
YT2095 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 your best friend with this stuff is distance, never keep more than 2 or 3 grams in any one place, and never store it in anything other than soft plastic (empty film containers are great). and be aware that even a film container full is more than capable of shattering a concrete paving slab! never look directly at the stuff either, unless you`re a good 50 meters away, a small amount set fire to on a lab bench will leave with spots in front of your eyes for up to an hour!. it`s static sensitive too and cappable of self confinement.
Gilded Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 "a film container full is more than capable of shattering a concrete paving slab" Whoah. I think I have underestimated the power of flash powder (or then you English fellas just have gigantic film containers ).
jgerlica Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 that`s gotta be the home made stuff then' date=' as I`ve never encountered that composition as a flash powder before.the stuff I get is the 70/30 KClO3 and dark flake pyro grade Alu with a pinch of Barium Chlorate as a color adjuster.[/quote'] Actually it's what the chi-coms foist on us
Gilded Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 By the way, doesn't barium chlorate produce extremely intense green flames? And isn't it very sensitive to friction too? It would be nice to try some, sadly it's hard to get any.
budullewraagh Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 heh, barium is quite rare. look for it in sodium street lamps
Gilded Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 I wonder how you could make barium (or let's say potassium) chlorate yourself... I have no clue.
budullewraagh Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 heh, well you could make perchloric acid and add barium to your mix. generate chlorine gas with the reduction of a hypochlorite, then bubble it into a strong oxidizer like, say 100% permanganic acid. problem is you'll most likely end up with 90+% chloric and only a little perchloric. add barium metal to that and youll have barium chlorate and some barium perchlorate. as for potassium perchlorate, look in match heads. i just worked on a bunch the other day. add a bunch of match heads to a small amount of water, then heat. the cardboard and sulfur should come out. strain this then just do fractional distillation, but be careful not to detonate the potassium chlorate/perchlorate
Gilded Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 Hmmh? Do match heads have potassium chlorate AND perchlorate? I think the perchlorate version of flash powder is not so effective (though it's more stable).
budullewraagh Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 yes, match heads have a mixture of potassium chlorate and perchlorate. perchlorates are stronger oxidizers than chlorates, actually
Gilded Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 I wonder if the potassium chlorate/perchlorate mix works well if used in flash powder. If it does (and if it's the sort of flash powder that doesn't just burn but explode), I think I found myself a new favourite pastime.
budullewraagh Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 yes, very well in fact. you can make it explode and burn. if you want to have fun, the chlorate/perchlorate mix to some sucrose and add kinetic energy. a match should be sufficient. in doing this, you get a huge, really, really, really hot lilac flame characteristic of the potassium. if you want to have fun with colors, add salts; sodium for orange, strontium for red, magnesium for green, etc.
Gilded Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 Yes oh yes. Fireworks have always fascinated me so (last new year I think I spend about 80 euros on fireworks ). I actually found a page about the colors and effects in such reactions. Too bad the page is in Finnish, but I'm sure a similar (or even better) page could be found easily with Google or such, if anyone else is interested in fancy effects.
budullewraagh Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 well, it's not at all hard to figure out what salts produce various colors. what colors do you want?
Gilded Posted September 6, 2004 Posted September 6, 2004 Umm, what I meant is that I can easily check the colors and effects because I happen to be Finnish (and I think the page is pretty comprehensive), but a non-Finn in need of colors or effects for their flash powder wouldn't have much use for the page. Even though, I wonder what's the best chemical for green or turquoise flames (those colors rock). Some sort of barium compound for green and CuCl for turquoise, maybe. Any better suggestions? Edit: Probably barium chlorate that YT2095 mentioned earlier is the best way to produce green flames. Not sure about it though.
budullewraagh Posted September 6, 2004 Posted September 6, 2004 if all else fails just use another barium salt and another chlorate. barium isn't so common though
YT2095 Posted September 6, 2004 Posted September 6, 2004 oh dear me!!! this thread REALLY went downhill with crap from post #8 onwards didn`t it! for a start the barium chlorate is used in a SMALL amount as a "color adjuster" (I think I said that already). Chloric acid and barium will only succeed in blowing your ass to kingdom come so don`t bother! go to a pottery glassing shop and just buy a Barium salt! yes Barium is used for Green (about the only correct part since post #7). "heh, barium is quite rare. look for it in sodium street lamps" WTF???? from this point onwards though, if you`re all going to "teach yourselves" I`ll not even stand back and watch, I`ll have NO PART of it! the information you`re diseminating are only PART truths, and that`s Very Dangerous when it comes to Chemistry ((
budullewraagh Posted September 6, 2004 Posted September 6, 2004 "heh, barium is quite rare. look for it in sodium street lamps" WTF???? it is found in sodium street lamps.
r1dermon Posted September 6, 2004 Posted September 6, 2004 m-80's use flash powder, they are considered low-yield explosives. they contain 3grams or more of flashpowder, 3 grams being most common, and if you've ever heard an m-80 go off...it doesnt really seem like a "low-yield" explosive.
evilgrummus Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Take a look at the first two firecrackers in this movie. Both tubes are the same size and filled by the same amount of blackpowder (red) and flash powder (blue) and you'll see/hear the difference in report. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov6ZTG8Euy8
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