Politics and Illegals

[rigney]

If that statement was meant for my own edification, I wouldn't have opened my mouth. Perhaps none of you on the forum, but some bleeding heart will immediately jump on it with both feet and ten good reasons why I shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. People, we live at a very precarious time. Someone recently described it as; "Sleepy Sheeple Peope time". Do I wonder why? Hell no! The following video is of a Texas lawman targeted for murder by a couple illegal aliens. Is he a good cop, a bad cop, I have no idea and at this time, really don't give a damn. What I can see is; with the video cam rolling; two illegal maniacs are trying to kill this American cop. Give it a look and tell me; are undocumented illegals a problem, pretentious; or a good thing?

 

</SPAN>http://blutube.policeone.com/media/4115-Dashcam-footage-of-officer-being-shot/ </SPAN>

 

Edited July 12, 2010 by rigney

[ydoaPs]

Give it a look, then tell me; are undocumented illegals a good or a bad thing?

 

How many cops are killed by legal citizens? Oh yeah, you don't actually have a point here.

[Sisyphus]

What does the video have to do with illegal immigration, aside from the fact that the attackers were illegals?

[rigney]

Well, I see there was no reason for going outside the forum to get a reply. But are you guys for real or just yanking my band? I hope the latter, but fear the former. One of those shots could have meant this officers life. One of those shots could have meant the end of a family. Evidently neither of you seem to understand or rationalize the consequence. You both seem young by just reading your replies. I hope nothing like that ever happens to either of you, one of your family members or a friend.

[AzurePhoenix]

My dad's a cop... and I don't see your point either. Saying "illegal aliens are bad for this reason" when "this reason" is just as likely to be committed by anyone else from any other demographic is nonsensical. Do a few muslim terrorists make all muslims dangerous? Does Ted Bundy being a serial killer make all psychology majors a threat? You have to back up your claim with stats that indicate some sort've significant inclination for whoever you're profiling to do whatever it is you're alleging, singular events are meaningless outside of the context of the specific event in question.

[DJBruce]

I am going to have to agree with everyone else, and say that all this video proves is that there are bad people. Yes, it is tragic that this officer was shot and almost lost his life, but that does not mean that all illegal immigrants are horrible people.

[Moontanman]

I have to agree this proves nothing about illegals except that two of them are killers, There are American citizens who are also killers and I am sure there are illegals who are saints as well but I still think that illegals are just that... illegal and as such have no business being here illegally any more than I would have any business being in thier country illegally.

[DJBruce]

Remember the Swansontism

 

The plural of "anecdote" is "anecdotes," not "evidence."

[ydoaPs]

If that statement was meant for my own edification, I wouldn't have opened my mouth. Perhaps none of you on the forum, but some bleeding heart will immediately jump on it with both feet and ten good reasons why I shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. People, we live at a very precarious time. Someone recently described it as; "Sleepy Sheeple Peope time". Do I wonder why? Hell no! The following video is of a Texas lawman targeted for murder by a couple illegal aliens. Is he a good cop, a bad cop, I have no idea and at this time, really don't give a damn. What I can see is; with the video cam rolling; two illegal maniacs are trying to kill this American cop. Give it a look and tell me; are undocumented illegals a problem, pretentious; or a good thing?

 

 

 

 

</SPAN>http://blutube.policeone.com/media/4115-Dashcam-footage-of-officer-being-shot/ </SPAN>

 

 

 

Socrates is mortal, therefore all mortals are Socrates. Make sense?

[rigney]

What I can see is, with the video cam rolling; two illegal maniacs are trying to kill this American cop. Give it a look and tell me, are undocumented illegals a problem, pretentious; or a good thing?

 

Since there seems to have been a specific mind set in your replies, I thought I'd drag the two sentences down here and let you look at them again. Now, what in the world did I say in either of them that gave you carte blanche to be so judgmental in making these assumptions? Read your statements.

[rigney]

How many cops are killed by legal citizens? Oh yeah, you don't actually have a point here.

 

Yes, I remember you now. Your're the one who sent all of the pie charts showing me the inadequacies of Americas world contributions.

 

And to think, your Mom and Dad are actually spending good hard earned money for your higher education??

[rigney]

Remember the Swansontism

 

Don't know where this was meant to be going, but doesn't anecdotal also go in the same pot?

[DJBruce]

What I can see is, with the video cam rolling; two illegal maniacs are trying to kill this American cop. Give it a look and tell me, are undocumented illegals a problem, pretentious; or a good thing?

 

Since there seems to have been a specific mind set in your replies, I thought I'd drag the two sentences down here and let you look at them again. Now, what in the world did I say in either of them that gave you carte blanche to be so judgmental in making these assumptions? Read your statements.

 

When you posted a video of a cop being shot by an illegal immigrant in a thread on illegal immigration you instantly revealed the motives behind the post. No one attacked you, everyone simply found that the video you posted had nothing to do with the discussion over illegal immigration.

 

Yes, I remember you now. Your're the one who sent all of the pie charts showing me the inadequacies of Americas world contributions.

 

And to think, your Mom and Dad are actually spending good hard earned money for your higher education??

 

Attacking other peoples does nothing to further your point, and if anything will make you more enemies than friends.

 

Don't know where this was meant to be going, but doesn't anecdotal also go in the same pot?

 

The point of that quote, is that no matter how many anecdotes someone gives that does not justify or prove their claim. You provided a link about giving the story of one cop, an anecdote, I was just pointing out that no matter how many tragic stories you post it does not validate your ideas.

[jackson33]

'Illegal Aliens' are in themselves offenders of the laws of the US, whether crossing some border in an unauthorized manner or ignoring time requirements of an authorized stay, under a host of permit systems. Virtually all, that are not involved in human smuggling, gun/ammunition/money/drug smuggling/trafficking, will or have added to illegal activity, in obtaining fraudulent documentation or misrepresent themselves for legal documentation. Some of the laws broke, are actually Federal Offenses, that any Naturalized or American Citizens WOULD go to jail/prison for. Try doing some mild thinking here; While the US unemployment rates have been going up, construction jobs the ones hardest hit, don't kid yourself that road/home construction are not deeply involved, those entering the Country today are NOT looking for jobs. They may indeed be looking for a better life, no doubt I would attempt the same thing in their shoes, but that better life is not always an honorable excuse.

 

Since Heroine/Cocaine, in small quantities were made legal (about 2 years ago) and no telling what all else was already legal or laws NEVER enforced and the Cartels have thrived (other words for mafia/gangs), local, country/district and even Federal enforcement of laws have been hampered. Domestic law rarely enforced (priorities) and chaos exist in all of Mexico, especially near or on the Northern border and often crosses the border into the US and well documented in percentages of crimes committed by illegal's and in the prison system. I won't deny the "there are just some bad people" scenario, but by percentage or the idea the US Taxpayer, should be held responsible to handle the problems created, just doesn't add up.

 

I came to this thread for the title, 'Illegal's and Politics', in my opinion the underlying problem of "Illegal Immigration" into this Country, in the first place. I think behind 'Crude Production', folks from Mexico in the US (legal or illegal) is the second largest contributor to their economy, having passed tourism, some time ago. Additionally, I feel sure the US imports a good share of Mexico's Crude or their by products, not to mention agricultural products. Politics then do play a role, without considering the accusations that both parties are pandering for the Latino Vote.

[rigney]

'Illegal Aliens' are in themselves offenders of the laws of the US, whether crossing some border in an unauthorized manner or ignoring time requirements of an authorized stay, under a host of permit systems. Virtually all, that are not involved in human smuggling, gun/ammunition/money/drug smuggling/trafficking, will or have added to illegal activity, in obtaining fraudulent documentation or misrepresent themselves for legal documentation. Some of the laws broke, are actually Federal Offenses, that any Naturalized or American Citizens WOULD go to jail/prison for. Try doing some mild thinking here; While the US unemployment rates have been going up, construction jobs the ones hardest hit, don't kid yourself that road/home construction are not deeply involved, those entering the Country today are NOT looking for jobs. They may indeed be looking for a better life, no doubt I would attempt the same thing in their shoes, but that better life is not always an honorable excuse.

 

Since Heroine/Cocaine, in small quantities were made legal (about 2 years ago) and no telling what all else was already legal or laws NEVER enforced and the Cartels have thrived (other words for mafia/gangs), local, country/district and even Federal enforcement of laws have been hampered. Domestic law rarely enforced (priorities) and chaos exist in all of Mexico, especially near or on the Northern border and often crosses the border into the US and well documented in percentages of crimes committed by illegal's and in the prison system. I won't deny the "there are just some bad people" scenario, but by percentage or the idea the US Taxpayer, should be held responsible to handle the problems created, just doesn't add up.

 

I came to this thread for the title, 'Illegal's and Politics', in my opinion the underlying problem of "Illegal Immigration" into this Country, in the first place. I think behind 'Crude Production', folks from Mexico in the US (legal or illegal) is the second largest contributor to their economy, having passed tourism, some time ago. Additionally, I feel sure the US imports a good share of Mexico's Crude or their by products, not to mention agricultural products. Politics then do play a role, without considering the accusations that both parties are pandering for the Latino Vote.

 

Never meant for it get into a knock down drag out, ass kicking contest, Jackson; but that seems to be the case. I only asked what such a prepositional phrase might encumber, in its concern for illegals? Personally, I say, let's kick the lot of them back across the border and start over again, even though I love the Mexican people and their culture!! It's only the soothsayers on this side, that bother me.

[Moontanman]

I don't see how illegal immigration can be defended, the idea that this anecdotal evidence is some how profound fails but the fact remains that illegal immigration is indeed illegal and being illegal it attracts people with little or no problem with breaking the law. The average illegal alien might be a saint but they still deal with and are part of an illegal enterprise that can and does go to great lengths to break laws to finance and to import these illegal aliens and large amounts of money being made by breaking the law always seem to result in violence. In this case it was two law enforcement officers but the violence is also directed at every day citizens as well as the illegal aliens themselves. I don't see how ignoring the illegal alien problem helps anyone but the criminals who make huge amounts of money off the illegal aliens by any means possible.

[rigney]

When you posted a video of a cop being shot by an illegal immigrant in a thread on illegal immigration you instantly revealed the motives behind the post. No one attacked you, everyone simply found that the video you posted had nothing to do with the discussion over illegal immigration.

 

 

 

Attacking other peoples does nothing to further your point, and if anything will make you more enemies than friends.

 

 

 

The point of that quote, is that no matter how many anecdotes someone gives that does not justify or prove their claim. You provided a link about giving the story of one cop, an anecdote, I was just pointing out that no matter how many tragic stories you post it does not validate your ideas.

 

Sorry about the incongruity. But since I'm not blessed with tact, I just speak my mind and shoot from the hip. What many Americans fail to understand is, other than our slim and 'slimming" military; there are few like Davie Crockett, Jim Bowies and their ilk, still here to maintain a nations singing of: "Kum Bai Yah". My whole premise is that it puts us into a mode of subserviency. While the idea may seem strange to some of you: I hope it's not just another pie in the sky?

[AzurePhoenix]

Rigney...

 

The following video is of an Ohio lawman targeted for murder by a United States native. Is he a good cop, a bad cop, I have no idea and at this time, really don't give a damn. What I can see is; with the video cam rolling; a maniac is trying to kill this American cop. Give it a look and tell me; are local americans a problem, pretentious; or a good thing?

 

Vicious Attempted Murder of Law Enforcement Officer

[Sisyphus]

 

Look at this video, and tell me, are cats a problem, or a good thing?

[Mr Skeptic]

If that statement was meant for my own edification, I wouldn't have opened my mouth. Perhaps none of you on the forum, but some bleeding heart will immediately jump on it with both feet and ten good reasons why I shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. People, we live at a very precarious time. Someone recently described it as; "Sleepy Sheeple Peope time". Do I wonder why? Hell no! The following video is of a Texas lawman targeted for murder by a couple illegal aliens. Is he a good cop, a bad cop, I have no idea and at this time, really don't give a damn. What I can see is; with the video cam rolling; two illegal maniacs are trying to kill this American cop. Give it a look and tell me; are undocumented illegals a problem, pretentious; or a good thing?

 

 

 

 

</SPAN>http://blutube.policeone.com/media/4115-Dashcam-footage-of-officer-being-shot/ </SPAN>

 

 

 

 

I'm shocked, shocked I say! I would never have imagined that humans would stoop so low as to kill a cop. That's never happened before those evil illegal aliens arrived! Yeah, did you have some evidence that illegal aliens are a problem, or just a couple of meaningless anecdotes? (not that we don't care about the cop, it's just that the argument does not provide evidence for the conclusion).

[DJBruce]

Sorry about the incongruity. But since I'm not blessed with tact, I just speak my mind and shoot from the hip. What many Americans fail to understand is, other than our slim and 'slimming" military; there are few like Davie Crockett, Jim Bowies and their ilk, still here to maintain a nations singing of: "Kum Bai Yah". My whole premise is that it puts us into a mode of subserviency. While the idea may seem strange to some of you: I hope it's not just another pie in the sky?

 

I am slightly confused by this, are you saying that somehow illegal immigrants are making use subservient to other countries? Also are you suggesting that we are in need of vigilantism in order to deal with illegal immigration?

[ydoaPs]

Yes, I remember you now. Your're the one who sent all of the pie charts showing me the inadequacies of Americas world contributions.

I'm sorry that you have issues with factual information.

 

And to think, your Mom and Dad are actually spending good hard earned money for your higher education??

Actually, I never knew my dad and my mom is dead. Also, the taxpayers are paying for my higher education since I'm a Petty Officer Second Class in the United States Navy. I'm not sure what point you think you have here.

 

Care to actually address my point at some time?

[rigney]

Rigney...

 

The following video is of an Ohio lawman targeted for murder by a United States native. Is he a good cop, a bad cop, I have no idea and at this time, really don't give a damn. What I can see is; with the video cam rolling; a maniac is trying to kill this American cop. Give it a look and tell me; are local americans a problem, pretentious; or a good thing?

 

Vicious Attempted Murder of Law Enforcement Officer

 

 

C'mon man, if that turkey was packin' a Glock 9mm 28, subcompact strapped to his right leg and didn't shoot, the cop was lucky as hell. Run afoul of that bird last Thanksgiving after stopping at a light. He whips a 44 derringer out from under his left wing and shoots me in the right shoulder, jumped out the window and was gone. Gotta tell you, spam ain't worth a damn when you have to eat it on any holiday.

[ParanoiA]

I am slightly confused by this' date=' are you saying that somehow illegal immigrants are making use subservient to other countries? Also are you suggesting that we are in need of vigilantism in order to deal with illegal immigration? [/quote']

 

I'm having problems following rigney on any of this and I don't understand the jump to associating 12 million illegals and counting to a single video.

 

However, I do think we are in need of vigilantism in order to deal with illegal immigration. I think we have to force the government's hand. This is a long time coming, and at some point in the near future we're going to have to make a stand and make our government do as we, the people, say or sit and acquiesce to fair masters and hope we are treated fairly forever after...

 

This is a republic and until that's wiped out by the statists we have to take responsibility for our governing body and our country. Right now there is a philosophical divide on illegal immigration, yet the government has not been relieved of its charge to protect the borders and manage immigration. Until we change those laws, the executive does *not* get to decide not to execute the laws of the land.

 

I applaud Arizona's efforts to attempt to force the government's hand, using what small assortment of tools still left over, that states have to even leverage anything against the central government.

 

Forget the detail and the politics and consider the problem with government ignoring their most basic, fundamental charges for ideological differences in the face of law. If the government failed to mount a defense against an invading army because they don't agree with war, you would be shocked with disbelief. Hopefully you would grab a weapon and motivate your countrymen to fight back - to do what the government won't and should.

 

We work out our policy decisions and differences entirely separate from our enforcement division. If we decide, as a nation, through law, that we don't agree with xyz, then the executive can sit on their hands. Until then, the laws must be executed.

 

Right now, our immigration laws are not being executed by the executive. If we don't like those laws, let's change them. Until then, not enforcing them should be answered by vigilante outrage and disgust. I applaud those brave enough to do it.

[rigney]

I am slightly confused by this, are you saying that somehow illegal immigrants are making use subservient to other countries? Also are you suggesting that we are in need of vigilantism in order to deal with illegal immigration?

 

 

Wow!, Glad I didn't say anything controversial. No, not vigilantism, only the fact that laws are meant to be enforced and obeyed by everyone. No, not subservient to any country, but to the lackadaisical attitude of a government seemingly out of control, and not concerned about illegals breaking these laws. The statement has been made many times, "get in line", there's nothing more special about you than those who have been patiently waiting, letigimately. Hope that's an answer?

 

I'm having problems following rigney on any of this and I don't understand the jump to associating 12 million illegals and counting to a single video.

 

However, I do think we are in need of vigilantism in order to deal with illegal immigration. I think we have to force the government's hand. This is a long time coming, and at some point in the near future we're going to have to make a stand and make our government do as we, the people, say or sit and acquiesce to fair masters and hope we are treated fairly forever after...

 

This is a republic and until that's wiped out by the statists we have to take responsibility for our governing body and our country. Right now there is a philosophical divide on illegal immigration, yet the government has not been relieved of its charge to protect the borders and manage immigration. Until we change those laws, the executive does *not* get to decide not to execute the laws of the land.

 

I applaud Arizona's efforts to attempt to force the government's hand, using what small assortment of tools still left over, that states have to even leverage anything against the central government.

 

Forget the detail and the politics and consider the problem with government ignoring their most basic, fundamental charges for ideological differences in the face of law. If the government failed to mount a defense against an invading army because they don't agree with war, you would be shocked with disbelief. Hopefully you would grab a weapon and motivate your countrymen to fight back - to do what the government won't and should.

 

We work out our policy decisions and differences entirely separate from our enforcement division. If we decide, as a nation, through law, that we don't agree with xyz, then the executive can sit on their hands. Until then, the laws must be executed.

 

Right now, our immigration laws are not being executed by the executive. If we don't like those laws, let's change them. Until then, not enforcing them should be answered by vigilante outrage and disgust. I applaud those brave enough to do it.

 

 

'Holy Jesus, Mary and Joseph', and I'm not even cathoilc. My problem is, I should have seen a speech therapist years ago.

 

I'm sorry that you have issues with factual information.

 

Actually, I never knew my dad and my mom is dead. Also, the taxpayers are paying for my higher education since I'm a Petty Officer Second Class in the United States Navy. I'm not sure what point you think you have here.

 

Care to actually address my point at some time?

 

 

Proud to make you acquaintence Lad. My condolence in both instances concerning your parents and for my stupid remark.

Dave, my oldest son retired several years ago as Senior Master Chief, E-9, while serving aboard the B-B 62, New Jersey. My youngest son Dan retired as a Chief also. I wish you nothing less. This thing with the illegals got out of hand for which I am sorry, but with no remorse. It's time we swept them out the back where they came in from and send them home. Let them take their place in line behind the legitimates. If you're nine foot tall and bullet proof, you can chance jumping line. Otherwise; look close, someone may be packing?

 

 

Look at this video, and tell me, are cats a problem, or a good thing?

 

I swear!, Had that critter been wearing a shoulder holster, hip hugger or an ankle strap, I'd have taken him as a double of that damn turkey.