swansont Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 swansont gf) True The moon's orbit maintains an agreement with the laws of angular momentum. Momentum being conserved the system must obey the law we call Conservation of Angular Momentum. Hence, when (for what ever reason) the earth's rotation changes - the moon must respond with an altered orbit. This has been known since at least 350 B.C. The statement is structured in the charismatic manner common of that day S. K. Runcorn was a British scientist who discovered remnant magnetism in the moon rock brought back by the Apollo astronauts. He wrote an article, "Corals as Paleontological Clocks," Scientific American, Vol. 215, No. 4, Pg. 26-33. October 1966. (offprint 871), Pg. 583. The essence of the article is as follows :: The banding on certain corals revealed not only annual growth, but monthly, and daily growth as well. Ancient coral thus provided clues to changes in the earth's rate of rotation, and hence to the length of the year and the length of the day in past eras. British scientist John W. Wells (who started the investigation reported in 1963 that his count of the fine bands within the annual bands in several coral ranged between 385 and 410 and averaged 400. In the article, S. K. Runcorn reminds us that with 400 days in a year, the earth would be rotating much faster than today, the moon, in compliance with the law of Conservation of Angular Momentum would have been much closer and would have appeared very large in the sky You're missing the point. The change in the length of the day is not in question; as D H and I have both mentioned, it is due to the tides. This citation makes absolutely no mention of earthquakes as a source of the change. That's what I/we want you to back up. The earth, by itself, conserves angular momentum. If not for the tidal interaction, the moon would have no way trade angular momentum with the earth, and that is a very weak coupling. Changes in rotation rate of the earth due to mass redistribution (earthquakes, weather, etc.) are not magically transferred to the moon.
Klaplunk Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Probably something to do with Sacred Geometry. Just a question, what religion did the egyptions follow? It may have been discussed in this thread already but I haven't got the time right now to check. Thanks in advance.
gentleman-farmer Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 Klaplunk Just a question, what religion did the egyptions follow? It may have been discussed in this thread already but I haven't got the time right now to check. Thanks in advance. gf) That is a very interesting question - The answer may not be to the liking of members of this forum - but the evidence is abundant and given the chance I think the answer will clear up some of histories mysteries Let me answer swansont first (and the question of the Morning star) than back to the religion of the Egyptians gf /
Klaynos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 ! Moderator Note Perhaps a discussion on the religion of the ancient Egyptians should be in the religion forum? Assuming of course that it's not speculation...
gentleman-farmer Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 swansont the moon would have no way trade angular momentum with the earth, gf) Not true - the moon obeys the Laws of Conservation of Angular Momentum and broadens its orbit See also my response # 32 - if the subject interests you - S.K Runcorn's article is in the library system. Runcorn has passed on now - but I exchanged a number of e-mails with him about ancient coral - he was very gracious gf /
Klaynos Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 swansont gf) Not true - the moon obeys the Laws of Conservation of Angular Momentum and broadens its orbit See also my response # 32 - if the subject interests you - S.K Runcorn's article is in the library system. Runcorn has passed on now - but I exchanged a number of e-mails with him about ancient coral - he was very gracious gf / You also need some mechanism to transfer the angular momentum.
gentleman-farmer Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 Klaynos You also need some mechanism to transfer the angular momentum. gf) That is a very good point - we see ice skaters use their body and limbs to change spin rate through conservation of angular momentum, speed controls work, and physics books give us equations based on Newton's Second Law - but the truth seems to be that few if any really understand how transfers actually take place. I don't know - but the evidence is non-conflicting gf /
swansont Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 swansont gf) Not true - the moon obeys the Laws of Conservation of Angular Momentum and broadens its orbit You can treat the moon and earth as individual systems, and in that case you need to have a torque to change angular momentum. No torque, no change. An earthquake on the earth does not exert a torque on the moon that causes it to recede. That's nonsense. See also my response # 32 - if the subject interests you - S.K Runcorn's article is in the library system. Runcorn has passed on now - but I exchanged a number of e-mails with him about ancient coral - he was very gracious gf / You have given no indication that article in any way implies that earthquakes are causing the moon to recede. I'm not about to go chasing down an article that has little hope of containing this information. Back your claim up, or retract it. Klaynos gf) That is a very good point - we see ice skaters use their body and limbs to change spin rate through conservation of angular momentum, speed controls work, and physics books give us equations based on Newton's Second Law - but the truth seems to be that few if any really understand how transfers actually take place. I don't know - but the evidence is non-conflicting gf / This phenomenon is well understood by many. There is no transfer. L = Iw. L is constant, since there is no external torque. If I changes, w must also change to keep the product constant. 1
gentleman-farmer Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 moontanman I have to ask, why do you say that Venus is not the morning star? gf) Recall that we're looking to the Pyramid Texts for the definition of the morning star. Allow me to dramatize a little bit We use a search and find methodology - our first key word will be morning - we could use star but there'd be too many returns We find morning in § 60, and Utt 110, in § 113 & § 132 Ah good we found what we want in § 132 :: I was conceived in the night, I was born in the night, I belong to those who are in the suite of Re, who are before the Morning Star. Now that we've found Morning Star - we'll look for a definition Ah Great we found it in § 341 my offspring is the Morning Star, my offspring is the dawn-light. So the Morning Star, is the dawn-light. / I'll answer the question of Horus's mother in a later post gf /
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 well, regardless of your definition of morning star (though it IS venus if you ask any astronomer) this still doesn't affect the fact that you keep dodging issues we bring up with the hypothesis that the great red spot of jupiter is the eye of horus. so answer us these questions(at the very least) to our satisfaction. 1/ how were the egyptians able to observe such a spot while lacking sufficient quality optics? 2/ how do you know the great red spot was even existant then? 3/ why does all the mythos and resemblance point more towards the eye of horus being the eye of a falcon? 4/ why do you think #3 is impossible?
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 5/ Why has JohnB's last post been completely ignored?
gentleman-farmer Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Cap'n 5/ Why has JohnB's last post been completely ignored? gf Because it is Occult - By example there are 14 riddles in the Pyramid Texts all starting with the phrase Recite four times - this text has been changed in JohnB's (Pyramid Texts) and the riddles have been removed JohnB says Nut is the mother of Horus. There are however other versions that say that Horus was the son of Isis/Hathor gf) I don't know how many mothers you can have - but not three for certain sure -but JohnB says Nut Isis/Hathor The answer is Hathor § 466 Are you Horus, son of Osiris? Are you the god, the eldest one, the son of Hathor? By linking ( Isis/Hathor ) in that conjoined manner JohnB is demonstrating the influence of the Occult. The Pyramid Texts actually mark therein a transition from the gods (little g) to mankind. Isis fell out of favor and Hathor who represented motherhood stood in her stance The Pyramid Texts version JohnB uses is one where all the science, the riddles, and the nuances have been removed and funerary placed in its stead gf / Edited July 20, 2010 by gentleman-farmer
JohnB Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) Because it is Occult I've heard Egyptologists called many things before, but that is a new one. Does "Occult" mean anything that you don't like, or is there a deeper meaning? I don't know how many mothers you can have - but not three for certain sure -but JohnB says Nut Isis/Hathor Your reading comprehension skills need some work. I said Nut was the mother of Horus in the myth that happens to be my favourite. In other myths it is Isis/Hathor. Depending on which story you read, the identity of Horus' mother changes. Similarly in Genesis, whether Man was created before the animals or after depends on which chapter you read. It's the result of many Gods with different names and attributes being absorbed into the Pantheon over time. A further example is just to the North of me. The Glasshouse Mountains are volcanic plugs that have eroded and now sort of look like people. One aboriginal legend is that the mountains are the daughters of a great Shaman, who changed them into hills to prevent them being led astray by the young men of the tribe. Another tells of a family whose son went off to fight in a great battle over the sea, never to return. The family watched for his return every day until the Gods took pity on them and turned them into mountains so that they could wait until time ends and the soul of the son returns to be reunited with them. The main mountain in both legends is Tibrogargan. Was he a Shaman protecting his daughters, or a father waiting for his son? (I happen to prefer the second legend as it's more in keeping with the Gods behaviour in other legends.) These are the problems when dealing with legends. As to your Morning Star. This one is difficult for me. Those here know that I have often supported people in their right to have "unusual" interpretations of things, but I have always shied away from declaring an authority in a field "wrong". Assuming that your copy/paste of Line 341 is accurate, I now have no choice. Your translation is wrong. The relevent text is on the South Wall of the Antechamber in the Pyramid of Unas. On the attached photograph (iwenis9b) I've outlined the text of 341 in red. It reads from top to bottom and right to left. Looking at the upper part you can see that the glyphs do not repeat, so the two parts cannot begin with "My offspring". Different glyphs have different translations. As a secondary proof I have attached a second picture (Line 341). This picture is slightly modified as the original lines are over two pages in the original document. I combined them but did no other editing. The original is from Kurt Sethe's seminal work "Die Altaegyptischen Pyramidentexte Pyramidentexte nach den Papierabdrucken und Photographien des Berliner Museums" 1908. Kurt Sethe was the first to fully document the texts and all later translations are done from his drawings. Both Faulkner and Mercer translated the work of Sethe. Close inspection will show that Sethe made one change, he reversed the glyphs so that they could be read from left to right rather than right to left. This change is trivial and doesn't change the meanings in any way. The original can be seen here, and continues onto the next page. I doubt that the Library of the University of chicago is too "occult" for some to view. It will have been noted that the Cartouche for the Pharoah is labelled simply "N". This is a convention used in these texts basically meaning "Insert relevent Pharoahs name here". Identical texts are found in multiple tombs with only the name of the deceased changing, so having "N" allows for more generic translations. In both cases it will be noted the differences between the glyphs preceeding the glyph for Sothis and the glyph meaning "Morning Star". #341 is translated by Mercer thusly; 341a. N. will certainly ferry over to the eastern side of the horizon; 341b. N. will certainly ferry over to the eastern side of heaven. 341c. His sister is Sothis; his mother is the Dwȝ.t (morning star). From here. Pyramid texts Online has an apparently slightly different translation; This Unas will cross a crossing to the eastern side of the Akhet-Horizon. This Unas will cross a crossing to the eastern side of the sky. His sister is Sothis, the Duat has given him birth. From here. Both translations are pretty much the same though, it's just phrasing that differs. Mercer says "His mother is the Duat" which while differing in phraseology, is identical in meaning to PTs "The Duat has given him birth". Who else could give him birth but his mother? I really hate to say it, but other translations disagree with Faulkners, the original transcription disagrees with Faulkners translation and the actual heiroglyphs on the wall of the tomb disagree with Faulkners translation. I'm sorry g-f, but your translation is simply incorrect. Sothis and the Duat are not the offspring, but the sister and mother. Would you care to try again? Edited July 21, 2010 by JohnB 3
gentleman-farmer Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 JohnB Your reading comprehension skills need some work. I said Nut was the mother of Horus in the myth that happens to be my favourite. gf) (not nice JohnB) The question was not what your favorite was - nor how many variations you could come up with - The question related to your ability to identify Horus's mother from the Pyramid Texts Obviously you weren't able to do that - and photos in retrospect is kind of revealing As to JohnB says Your translation is wrong gf) It was not my translation as you well know - I quote directly from Dr. R. O Faulkner's the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts (a published book) - You quote MYTH and Occult from a 1952 Internet version that may or may not have been reviewed Faulkner was staff at the British Museum - the book was published by Oxford University Press Who published, and who reviewed Your Occult version? And why were the 14 riddles all starting with the phrase Recite four times removed from your Internet version? gf
Klaynos Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Shockingly our knowledge of things (in this case our ability to translate) changes and gets better over time, citing one old source does not matter. I was recently reading Maxwell's original texts on electromagnetism it is a very strange experience given that there was no concept of electrons at the time of writing... Oh, and define what you mean by Occult, please.
Ophiolite Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 gentleman-farmer, I must thank you and JohnB for an utterly fascinating exchange. I lived in Egypt for four years and took the usual tourist opportunities to visit pyramids and ancient temples. It is a delight to sit in the grandstand while individuals who really know something of this history debate. So my first purpose in posting was to extend that thanks. My second purpose was to offer some advice which I hope you will accept in the spirit in which it is offered. Your enthusiasm for your subject is leading you to level accusations at JohnB that to the casual observer seem more emotional than reasonable. That approach can only serve to weaken your argument. I am sure this is not what you intend. I shall be happy to expand with examples if you wish and by pm if you prefer. In the meantime, like Klaynos, I too would like to know what you mean by Occult in this context.
JohnB Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 The question was not what your favorite was - nor how many variations you could come up with - The question related to your ability to identify Horus's mother from the Pyramid Texts You are assuming the Pyramid texts are the earliest and only version. The problem is that with a multiplicity of legends, which one do you believe? I chose Nut because I prefer that particular story. You are quite free to choose Isis or Hathor if you wish, I won't say you are wrong. All that I ask is that you phrase it as "In the version I read, it was Hathor." There isn't actually a definitive answer, it all depends on which story you read. gf) It was not my translation as you well know - I quote directly from Dr. R. O Faulkner's the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts (a published book) - You quote MYTH and Occult from a 1952 Internet version that may or may not have been reviewed Faulkner was staff at the British Museum - the book was published by Oxford University Press Who published, and who reviewed Your Occult version? When I said "your" translation, I meant "the one you are using". Of the two translations I offered, one was by Mercer, an older but in this case, I think better translation. More to the point I show the original, scanned from the book, original copy of the glyphs. The work of Sathe is the standard work in this area. Because of his accuracy, if I wished to do my own translation of the Pyramid Texts I don't have to go to Saqqara personally, I can use his notes. Which is exactly what Faulkner did. I quote from the preface of his book (Page vi); The text upon which this translation is based is, of course, that of Sethe, embodying his corrections noted in his "Nachtrage" and Kritischer Apparat..... Please note that in the paragraph before this one Faulkner says; The notes on the translations have therefore been reduced to the bare minimum; when in doubt the scholar in Ancient Egyptian will in most cases be able to consult Sethe's books. Faulkner makes it plain that he a) Kept it very simple and basic and B) based his translation on the work of Sethe. Have another look at the picture called "Line 341". That is a picture of the drawing of the inscription that Faulkner used for his translation. If you were to go into Faulkners office and find Sethe's book in the bookcase and open it to page 193, that is what you will see. The link is to the University of Chigago library, who have placed the work online. How is this possibly "occult"? You seem to be rather big on originals and it is possible to go back further than Sethe's work. I have done this for you. I have provided not only a picture of the actual wall the inscription is written on but I've even outlined in red the relevent passage. It doesn't get any more original than that. What is inscribed into the wall is the "Pyramid Text". It isn't occult and it doesn't need review, it's a carving on a bloody wall, it simply exists. I did this so that you could compare for yourself whether or not Sethe was an accurate depiction of the inscription on the wall of the antechamber. If you can find a difference you will be the first person in 100 years to do so and the only person to look at the comparison and do so. I think we can accept the work of Sethe as accurate, don't you? Working from there, the third line of 341 as quoted is; my offspring is the Morning Star, my offspring is the dawn-light. If this translation were accurate, then we should see the glyphs for "My offspring" twice in line c, but we don't. Since we see two different sets of glyphs, then it stands to reason that we should have two different phrases in our translation. Since the glyphs refer to both "Sothis" and the "Duat" then so to should the translation. The translation by Mercer does this, the one from PT online also does so, Faulkners does not. Ergo, Faulkners translation is incorrect. It simply doesn't match what is carved into the wall of the tomb. As to Faulkner working for the British Museum etc, etc, here we call that "Appeal to Authority". This is a logical fallacy that somebodys word should be accepted simply because of who he is or where he works. Who he is doesn't matter, where he works doesn't matter, only the demonstratable truth of his words matters. And those words are incorrect. If you feel I'm wrong in this, by all means argue, show me where the translations are wrong. I've shown you where and how the Faulkner one is incorrect, you could at least do me the same curtousy. As a final note. I'd like you to expand on these 14 riddles that were removed. You've mentioned it a few times and frankly I haven't heard this before and would like to know which passages you are referring to. For preference, which lines or Utterances are involved and in which published translations are they included or excluded. From what I've seen so far I think that you are probably wrong, but I'm certainly willing to listen and let you make your case. Cheers. 2
gentleman-farmer Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 Ophiolite like Klaynos, I too would like to know what you mean by Occult in this context. gf) On the matter of the Occult I would ask this forum to read JohnB's response very very carefully and note his reference to a multiplicity of legends (see his quote following my response) - What we refer to as The Pyramid Texts are those 4000 lines of hieroglyphic inscriptions that are written on stone - the form of which was deciphered by means of the Rosetta stone by Jean Francois Champollion c1821 - 22. They were published in English by the late Dr. R. O. Faulkner under the title, The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts (They are not legends) What JohnB is quoting is not the Pyramid Texts - it is Occult. JohnB provided this link in a previous response - Please go there and open one of the Chapters and note the frequent reference to "N." http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/index.htm You will not find "N," in the Pyramid Texts - but it is used 173 times in the Book of the Dead. So what is the Book of Dead? It is a compilation of spells, prayers, vignettes, and incantations written on various papyri and collected from other sources. The authors are those who tended to the burial processes. The Book of the Dead and its reference to "N" has no relationship to the Pyramid Texts Please note JohnB's reference to legend and a multiplicity of sources You are assuming the Pyramid texts are the earliest and only version. The problem is that with a multiplicity of legends, which one do you believe? I chose Nut because I prefer that particular story. You are quite free to choose Isis or Hathor if you wish, I won't say you are wrong. All that I ask is that you phrase it as "In the version I read, it was Hathor." There isn't actually a definitive answer, it all depends on which story you read. gf /
Klaynos Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Ophiolite gf) On the matter of the Occult I would ask this forum to read JohnB's response very very carefully and note his reference to a multiplicity of legends (see his quote following my response) - What we refer to as The Pyramid Texts are those 4000 lines of hieroglyphic inscriptions that are written on stone - the form of which was deciphered by means of the Rosetta stone by Jean Francois Champollion c1821 - 22. They were published in English by the late Dr. R. O. Faulkner under the title, The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts (They are not legends) What JohnB is quoting is not the Pyramid Texts - it is Occult. JohnB provided this link in a previous response - Please go there and open one of the Chapters and note the frequent reference to "N." http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/index.htm You will not find "N," in the Pyramid Texts - but it is used 173 times in the Book of the Dead. So what is the Book of Dead? It is a compilation of spells, prayers, vignettes, and incantations written on various papyri and collected from other sources. The authors are those who tended to the burial processes. The Book of the Dead and its reference to "N" has no relationship to the Pyramid Texts Please note JohnB's reference to legend and a multiplicity of sources gf / You did not answer my question. You also seem to have backed down from the "evidence" you posted earlier that got shown to be false, with regards to synchronisation times." This kind of thing does not bode well. Also it was my understanding that the pyramid texts were also spells, prayers, vignettes, and incantations written to aid the pharaoh to the afterlife... Also you said in a previous post that parts of the book of the dead came from the pyramid texts, that doesn't sound like "no relationship" to me. And JohnB is clearly talking about the pyramid texts, he has photos of the wall... 1
gentleman-farmer Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 Klaynos And JohnB is clearly talking about the pyramid texts, he has photos of the wall... gf) Not true - Notice you are looking at a wall the text thereon you cannot read Notice too JohnB did not give you the source of his Horus's mother statement - Let me quote it for you It came from The Book of the Dead Not the Pyramid Text as stated - SPELL 29 A My heart is with me and it shall not be taken away, for I am a possessor of hearts who unites hearts. I live by truth, in which I exist; I am Horus who is in the hearts, he who is in the middle of what is in my body. I live by saying what is in my heart, and it shall not be taken away; my heart is mine, and none shall be aggressive against it, no terror shall subdue me, I take it that I may be in the body of my father Geb and of my mother Nut, for I have committed no sin against the gods, and nothing shall be conducted in that respect from my vindication. I'll address your other questions in a bit - You asked about Occult - than please let's resolve it Go to the link JohnB gave us and read about "N" N does not apperar in the Pyramid Texts - Read again the quote I gave you on this page SPELL 29 A I am Horus...my father Geb and of my mother Nut are from The Book of the Dead -- Not the Pyramid Text as stated - gf /
Klaynos Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 So his preference for the nut story comes from the book of the dead, he us capable of talking about more than one thing. You still have not answered my question and you are dodging the other points raised by johnb.
gentleman-farmer Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) Klaynos So his preference for the nut story comes from the book of the dead, he us capable of talking about more than one thing. gf) Not true - His earlier posts were clearly not quoted from the Pyramid Texts - so the challenge was to provide proof by having him give us the Pyramid Texts version of the mother of Horus and what the Morning star was He was able to do neither - when we check his Internet source - which I would hope you did too we find it neither by word or intent in any way equivalent to the Pyramid Texts http://www.sacred-te...y/pyt/index.htm As to your other question Klaynos Also you said in a previous post that parts of the book of the dead came from the pyramid texts, that doesn't sound like "no relationship" to me. The Book of the Dead is a recent compilation I'll quote from the Book of the Dead Some of the spells in the Book of the Dead originated in the Pyramid Texts which first appeared carved in hieroglyphs on the walls of the burial chamber and anteroom of the pyramid of King Wenis, last ruler of the Fifth Dynasty, about 2345 BC. So they are no more related than if you quoted from the Bible gf Edited July 21, 2010 by gentleman-farmer
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Klaynos gf) Not true - His earlier posts were clearly not quoted from the Pyramid Texts - so the challenge was to provide proof by having him give us the Pyramid Texts version of the mother of Horus and what the Morning star was He was able to do neither - when we check his Internet source - which I would hope you did too we find it neither by word or intent in any way equivalent to the Pyramid Texts http://www.sacred-te...y/pyt/index.htm Uh. http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/pyt03.htm The famous Pyramid Texts herein translated for the first time in English with commentary were found inscribed on the walls of five pyramids at Saḳḳâreh, the ancient necropolis of Memphis in Egypt. These pyramids are those of the kings Unis of the Fifth Dynasty, and Teti, Pepi I, Merenrē‘ and Pepi II of the Sixth Dynasty. To this translation has been added that of recently discovered additional texts, parallel and complementary, in the pyramids of Oudjebten, Neit, and Apouit, queens of Pepi II, and of Ibi, a king of the Seventh Dynasty, of whom little historically is known. Incidentally, the N. you are wondering about is also explained if you take the time to read: This work of discovery of pyramid texts did not find a continuation until the years 1920 and 1936, when the Swiss Egyptologist, Jéquier, discovered texts in the pyramids of Oudjebten, Neit, and Apouit, queens of Pepi II, and in that of Ibi, an obscure king of the Seventh Dynasty, besides clearing that of Pepi II, whom Sethe records as N. (Neferkarē‘).
gentleman-farmer Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 Incidentally, the N. you are wondering about is also explained if you take the time to read: gf) Okay - Where in a published version of the Pyramid Texts are we to read about "N!" N is in the Book of the Dead (over 170 times) - but not in the Pyramid Texts NOTE what JohnB says The work of Sathe is the standard work in this area. Because of his accuracy, if I wished to do my own translation of the Pyramid Texts I don't have to go to Saqqara personally, I can use his notes. Which is exactly what Faulkner did. But the published acccount is quite different In these circumstances it might well be asked why a fresh translation should be foisted on the public when several versions using Sethe's text already exist. The answer is that in the last half-century great advances have been made in our knowledge of Ancient Egyptian, thanks largely to the labours of Gunn, Gardiner, and Edel; a second reason is the bulk and cost of the more recent publications. Sethe s tiberseizung und Kommeritar is not only very bulky, consisting of six (undated) volumes, but is also exceedingly costly and is still incomplete; his original manuscript as available to his posthumous editors stopped short at Un. 582 and did not include Utt. 1—212, which consist largely of ritual formulae. Further, Sethe s copy as handed over dates back something like forty years, and its editors themselves remark that if the author had lived to complete his work and revise it, undoubtedly he would have made many alterations, though even in its imperfect state Sethe s translation is an indispensable tool for all future students of these texts. gf) Hardly the standard work in this area. Because of his accuracy that JohnB claims It's easy to make claims - but unless you're working from a published version - little can be verified gf /
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