Should Russia declare an all out war on Chechen Rebels

[bloodhound]

and invade Chechen and get rid of all the rebels, however much innocent lives are lost or ruined?

[pulkit]

Its a double edged sword.

If they do not declare war, the conflict could eke on for decades which in itself would mean a whole lot of blood shed as well as resource wastage.

An all out war on the other hand doesn't provide any guarantees either. If it comes down to street fighting, that too could drag along for months, and of course it'd mean a lot of blood shed as well.

But history has taught me to believe that such situations are better dealt with the second way. It is best to restrict the suffering to minimal time because otherwise there is no guarantee of a peaceful settlement any time later. A classic example in this regard is India-Pakistan and kashmir, at this stage the complication of matters is of such high a degree that it is difficult to see a solution to it in the next few decades. It would be wise for others to learn from this.

[Misodoctakleidi]

Another option would be to give Chechnya independance.

[Severian]

They don't need to invade Chechnya. They are already there!

[DreamLord]

They don't need to invade Chechnya. They are already there!

 

Yes, that's part of the problem the Chechens have with Russia.

[Glider]

In any event, a spokesman for the 'formal' Chechen separatists denied they had any involvement in the situation, and condemned absolutely the actions of those hostage takers, whoever they were. For Russia to declare all out war on a country (even one it considers a part of itself) in retaliation for an atrocity committed by an as yet unidentified group would be a bit premature...oh, wait...doesn't this sound familiar?

[pulkit]

In any event, a spokesman for the 'formal' Chechen separatists denied they had any involvement in the situation, and condemned absolutely the actions of those hostage takers, whoever they were. For Russia to declare all out war on a country (even one it considers a part of itself) in retaliation for an atrocity committed by an as yet unidentified group would be a bit premature...oh, wait...doesn't this sound familiar?

 

A spokesman denying it doesn't count for anything.

 

It would actually be in their benefit to deny this to the world. Afterall it does create a very negaticve image.

[jgerlica]

Does anyone remember the bebacle in Grozny?

[Glider]

A spokesman denying it doesn't count for anything.

 

It would actually be in their benefit to deny this to the world. Afterall it does create a very negaticve image.

So, guilty until proven innocent then?

[YT2095]

it`s not the Chechyen people that are at fault, any more than it was the Iraqi people`s fault, it`s all down to a few bad apples that spoil it for the rest

[jgerlica]

Does anyone remember the bebacle in Grozny?

Have we all forgotten the events in 1999? I don't recall a formal resolution to the conflict, so it's kind of a moot point arguing the case for declaring, "Total war."

[Thales]

You can't invade a country to weed out seperatist rebels. All that will do is fuel more resentment and give the rebels more convincing arguements for recruiting more 'foot soldiers'.

 

The key is education and investment. Not violence.

[5614]

well, the fact is that its a sticky situation.... the russians have done enough to annoy the chechen rebels to attack these few times recently.... so the russians have started off in one direction, the next step is to invade, but they dont want to do this.

 

obviously the problem is that they've started towards violence, the chechen rebels are violent and respond with violence, what else is there to do but invade?

 

but then they cant invade, its not the chechens who are at fault here, it is just a few rebels, who give the area a bad name.

 

its a hard choice and with the next Russian presidential elections in mind, its a very hard choice, but i tell you this, the chechen rebels will not happily stop their attacks, the are terrorists & rebels, theres only one way to properly stop them, and that is get rid of them.

[Thales]

Thats the problem with terrorism. You can't wage war on a country to eliminate the few people who are out to cause as much death and destruction as possible. I would be more than suprised if they even reside in Chechnya. If you punish the Chechen people for the actions of the violent seperatist movement you just fuel the motivation to maim and kill more Russian citerzens.

 

If you begin by educating the masses, in both countries and provide a forum for reasonable discussion about the issues at hand, one where emotive impassioned pleas can be voiced and considered, one where the peoples will can be understood, it goes along way to solving the problems which are the root cause of terrorism. That being a lack of voice for the impoverish majority who have been opressed by the wealthy minority.

 

That and investing in the infrastructure of these run down regions. One of the main reasons the Chechens seek independence is because their region is largely ignored when it comes to government investment, sowing the seed of hate and resentment that spawn themselves in these most hobbilbe displays of inhuman action.

[5614]

yes, thats the sad truth, why would anyone become a terrorist? they are slowly killed, they never get paid money for randsome, whats the attraction?

[Skye]

Russia invaded Chechnya in 1999, after withdrawing in 1996.

[pulkit]

So, guilty until proven innocent then?

 

If it was in anyone's mind that these are innocent people atht we are dealing with, they wouldn't be tagged as rebels, but as freedom fighters and all their actions would be glorified and not critically analyzed (as they are being).

 

All I say is that such people are not to be trusted.

[Misodoctakleidi]

If it was in anyone's mind that these are innocent people atht we are dealing with' date=' they wouldn't be tagged as rebels, but as freedom fighters and all their actions would be glorified and not critically analyzed (as they are being).

 

All I say is that such people are not to be trusted.[/quote']

 

Only the "ideologicaly pure" (fighting in the interests of western media owners) are freedom fighters.

[pulkit]

Thats the problem with terrorism. You can't wage war on a country to eliminate the few people who are out to cause as much death and destruction as possible. I would be more than suprised if they even reside in Chechnya. If you punish the Chechen people for the actions of the violent seperatist movement you just fuel the motivation to maim and kill more Russian citerzens.

 

If you begin by educating the masses' date=' in both countries and provide a forum for reasonable discussion about the issues at hand, one where emotive impassioned pleas can be voiced and considered, one where the peoples will can be understood, it goes along way to solving the problems which are the root cause of terrorism. That being a lack of voice for the impoverish majority who have been opressed by the wealthy minority.

 

That and investing in the infrastructure of these run down regions. One of the main reasons the Chechens seek independence is because their region is largely ignored when it comes to government investment, sowing the seed of hate and resentment that spawn themselves in these most hobbilbe displays of inhuman action.

[/quote']

 

The reasons you suggest are probably the cause behind this "revolution" in Chechnya. The arguement against invading is also a very good one. But where I disagree with you is when you talk of establishing a common forum. Often extremist groups are driven by amongst other things by personal greed. It is very often not in their favour to establish such channels of communication. They infact try their best to isolate the region so that they can attack people inside psychologically. It would thus be in their best interest to stop such forums and channels from establishing. As a result I feel that it would be an extremely tougher task to establish such un-biased forums, and would probably thus result in a a lot of wasted effort.

 

You can negotiate with organised unions or representatives bodies, it doesn't work with extremists.

[atinymonkey]

Thats the problem with terrorism. You can't wage war on a country to eliminate the few people who are out to cause as much death and destruction as possible. I would be more than suprised if they even reside in Chechnya. If you punish the Chechen people for the actions of the violent seperatist movement you just fuel the motivation to maim and kill more Russian citerzens.

 

If you begin by educating the masses' date=' in both countries and provide a forum for reasonable discussion about the issues at hand, one where emotive impassioned pleas can be voiced and considered, one where the peoples will can be understood, it goes along way to solving the problems which are the root cause of terrorism. That being a lack of voice for the impoverish majority who have been opressed by the wealthy minority. [/quote']

 

Ok, first off the Chechen rebels were not ,and have never been, terrorists. They are not performing acts of terrorism, they are taking hostages. They are not trying to incite terror, they are trying to use hostages as bargaining chips to free their country.

 

Secondly, I may not agree with the methods but I do agree with the cause. Russia has just walked into the country and taken it over. That's a bad thing.

 

Third, you may be blissfully unaware of the voice of the Chechen public and the Chechen separatists, but they are pretty bloody vocal at the moment. If you like, I will buy you a plane ticket out to Chechia and you can try out your superb diplomatic skills. Maybe all the Russian have been waiting for is someone to explain the situation to them, and this is all just a big misunderstanding.

 

its a hard choice and with the next Russian presidential elections in mind, its a very hard choice, but i tell you this, the chechen rebels will not happily stop their attacks, the are terrorists & rebels, theres only one way to properly stop them, and that is get rid of them.

 

The Russians agree with you, they have been slaughtering the civilian population for years. Perhaps we should club together and send them a supportive letter, people commiting genocide get such bad press they must all be awfully depressed.

[Thales]

Blowing up planes constitues terrorism in my book. As does killing hostages but we are all entitled to an opinion. My post about a forum of discussion was intended to point out that their can be a diplomatic resolution to this and other crisees. That if there was a formalised platform in which ideas and suggestions could be voiced and genuinely considered, people would feel less inclined to set up these violent rebel organisations in the first place. And the ones that are already in existance would find it difficult to maintain support if there is a realistic diplomatic approach being adopted that is embraced by the general public.

 

Sure it may not provide independence overnight but one of the main reasons Russia opposes Chechen independence is because a Chenchen government would starkly opposed the Kremlin on almost all issues as a matter of principle. Breeding a culture of brotherhood, rather than futher polarising opinion, is the only hope any opressed region can have from escaping the dominate power. Occupying Chechnya holds little, if any, economic benefit to Russia and being occupied does little for the Chechens themselves(obviously). If the issues facing the people and the government could be discussed, that wonderful word: compromise, might be achieved. It just seems a darn sight better than shelling townships from afar or shooting children. If there is no voice for rational thought, it is unlikely to be heard over the sound of gunfire and the wails of mourning parents.

[Glider]

If it was in anyone's mind that these are innocent people atht we are dealing with, they wouldn't be tagged as rebels, but as freedom fighters and all their actions would be glorified and not critically analyzed (as they are being).

One man's rebel is another man's freedom fighter. It's just a question of perspective. We call them rebels because we disagree with them. To those who agree with them, they are freedom fighters.

 

All I say is that such people are not to be trusted.

It's not a question of trust. It's a question of due process.

[Thales]

Freedom fighters fight for freedom, not murder children. There is no justification for their actions and anyone who thinks so should seriously re-assess their position.

[matter]

Murderous Chechens using a forum? hah-hah.

 

Murderous Russians using a forum? hah-hah.

 

As much as I would like to think that Russians and Chechens could eventually negotiate for peace, it doesn't look likely at all. Chechens will reject any proposals the Russians offer and the Russians will reject any proposals the Chechens offer.

 

Let Russia invade Chechnya, there will be more resolution through fighting than there would be through 20 years of education and investment.

[Thales]

Such naivity is the basis of hate and destruction in this world. I was not talking about an internet forum but a public realm of discussion.

 

One hopes that your views are not widespread, although it seems all to apparent in todays ever increasingly stubborn world that such hope may indeed be misplaced.