DOD: Would you feel comfortable showering with gays?

[Moontanman]

The Department of Defense wants to know if you would feel comfortable showering with gays.

 

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/leaked-survey-aims-to-gauge-service-members-reaction-to-gays-in-military/19548214

 

I've given this some real thought, I have quite a few gay friends, i am quite sure i would enjoy showering with most of them immensely, of course I'm not sure how much the lesbians i know would enjoy showering with me

 

Seriously, we have all showered with people who we have no idea of their sexuality and more than few who we were quite sure were indeed homosexual, no one has offered to have sex with me while showering and i don't expect them too. Why does everyone think that just because you happen to be of the gender another person is usually attracted to it makes you attractive to them?

 

Having been a nudist all my life the idea of being uncomfortable showering with some who "might" be attracted to me sexually is totally bogus. Lets hear your veiws...

Edited July 18, 2010 by Moontanman

[Zolar V]

It isn't really a problem about being in the same room as gays, or even showering. It's the knowledge that, hey that guy over there is gay and he staring at my cock. It makes you feel uncomfortable and will result in loss of moral. Also one should note that having gays would result in a logistical nightmare because we would have to accommodate them in their own room.

 

It would result in a lot more sarc/sapo charges. (sexual assault stuff).

[mooeypoo]

Well, it works in other countries in the world quite well. Fact is, soldiers don't CARE about those things when they're in combat - they care about whether or not they can trust their comerade.

 

When the USA integrated african americans in the army, no one asked "are you comfortable". Nor did anyone ask the soldiers if they're comfortable with women in combat. Soldiers do as they're told, and are more adult than the people asking these questions.

 

There are many examples of GREAT armies that don't have these "restrictions" and operate just fine. Without asking their soldiers. Or caring what they might think for the first few months. \

 

You integrate blacks and women in the army because it's the right thing to do, not because soldiers didn't mind.

 

~moo

[Sisyphus]

Some nations, like Sweden, don't segregate military living quarters, bathrooms, etc. for men and women. They're just expected to be professional.

 

And of course, if you're in the military, you already are showering with homosexuals, I promise you. If that bothers you even though nothing happens, well, I don't know what to tell you.

[Zolar V]

Some nations, like Sweden, don't segregate military living quarters, bathrooms, etc. for men and women. They're just expected to be professional.

 

Yes but we don't Our culture is MUCH different then most of the European world.

[Sisyphus]

Yes but we don't Our culture is MUCH different then most of the European world.

 

Fair enough. Americans sure do seem to be a lot more uptight about sex, despite (or because of?) apparently being more obsessed with it. But I wonder: do we have policies like these because we're neurotic, or are we neurotic because we have policies like these? If we changed behavior, would everybody just get over it, like they did with racial desegregation?

[Zolar V]

That sums it all up fairly well sisyphus. IMO we would just get over it, just look at San Fransisco, they got a lot of gays and stuff going on over there.

 

I firmly believe the " we are neurotic because we have policies like these." ideology, simply because you can observe the effect of the having or not having the policy(s) fairly well. In most cases the effects are very consistent.

[mooeypoo]

Yes but we don't Our culture is MUCH different then most of the European world.

 

Do you really think you don't have homosexuals in the military?

 

Also, do you guys really think that the fact "Don't ask don't tell" policy will be cancelled means that all the gay soldiers will come out of the closet with tutu skirts and start hitting on their man friends? really? People's seuxality is their own business. This change in policy just means that they don't have to be afraid to be outed by someone else (which HAPPENS A LOT) and getting kicked out.

 

Also, this policy means that gay bashings will be included on the list of hate crimes in the army, just like crimes against women and crimes against african americans, etc. It will give the people who ALREADY ARE in the army more protection.

 

I don't get what people are so afraid of.

[Moontanman]

Sweden must be a relatively sane place, i know from being a long time nudist that social nudity isn't quite as big a charge as people think it would be. After about 10 minutes you realize it's not a big deal (at least not in my case, B) ), the idea of it is far more erotic than the reality.

 

it is very true that is you have ever been in a situation like school or military where you shower with others you have indeed been in the presence of some one of the same sex who might have liked the same sex sexually but not necessarily you The idea that nudity equals sex is totally wrong, only in a society that covers up could playboy magazine and the hundreds of Johnny come lately imitations make any money!

[zombieSquirrel]

"Would you feel comfortable showering with gays?"

 

Well, I don't really feel comfortable showering with other people, but I wouldn't feel more uncomfortable if they were gay.

 

"But I wonder: do we have policies like these because we're neurotic, or are we neurotic because we have policies like these?"

 

The chicken and the egg. I think they cause each other.

[Zolar V]

Do you really think you don't have homosexuals in the military?

Yes, i know there are gays in the military. I have a few friends among them.

 

Also, do you guys really think that the fact "Don't ask don't tell" policy will be cancelled means that all the gay soldiers will come out of the closet with tutu skirts and start hitting on their man friends? really? People's seuxality is their own business. This change in policy just means that they don't have to be afraid to be outed by someone else (which HAPPENS A LOT) and getting kicked out.

The don't ask don't tell policy is the best policy concerning gays out there. They are still people and their sexual orientation shouldn't come up. Just like a heterosexuals sexual orientation doesn't come up. The policy allows gays to serve in the military just fine, they just aren't allowed to go around wearing "tutu's and trying to make out with every dude in the squadron". Basically the policy just say's "do what you want on your own time and don't let it interfere with work." The whole point of the argument from the legislative side is merely and obviously political. But the actual practice of removing the policy is a logistical nightmare. we just can't do it.

Also, this policy means that gay bashings will be included on the list of hate crimes in the army, just like crimes against women and crimes against african americans, etc. It will give the people who ALREADY ARE in the army more protection.

 

I don't get what people are so afraid of.

Were not afraid of gays were terrified of the logistics. Military bases, deployed locations, and all public facilities are sexually segregated. So by removing the policy you then have to build separate facilities for gays, for lesbians, and for whatever else combination there is like transvestites. That is millions of dollars your talking about, millions that we don't have for those kinds of projects, and the biggest issue of them all, it puts a strain on your already strained moral of all forward deployed units.

[Mr Skeptic]

I generally make it a point not to ask guys who are showering with me about their sexual orientation.

 

Fair enough. Americans sure do seem to be a lot more uptight about sex, despite (or because of?) apparently being more obsessed with it. But I wonder: do we have policies like these because we're neurotic, or are we neurotic because we have policies like these? If we changed behavior, would everybody just get over it, like they did with racial desegregation?

 

I think that both are true: our culture modifies our policies, and our policies modify our culture.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Were not afraid of gays were terrified of the logistics. Military bases, deployed locations, and all public facilities are sexually segregated. So by removing the policy you then have to build separate facilities for gays, for lesbians, and for whatever else combination there is like transvestites. That is millions of dollars your talking about, millions that we don't have for those kinds of projects, and the biggest issue of them all, it puts a strain on your already strained moral of all forward deployed units.

Why should new facilities be built? It's not like you're introducing an entirely new gender to the bases -- gays have always been there, whether it makes you feel awkward in the shower or not. It's just that now you know who they are. If that makes people too uncomfortable to use the same restroom facilities, I'd suggest that's their problem, not the military's.

 

You've already admitted you know a few gay people in the military. Clearly the facilities function fine at the moment with gay people in them. Repealing DADT will just remove their threat of discharge.

[Phi for All]

I never understood why people specifically object to gay sex in situations where sex of any kind is fairly inappropriate.

[jackson33]

Phil; Question, not wanting to discuss this issue. If sex has nothing to do with taking showers, why do we provide separate facilities for Men & Woman? If the answer is some of each gender (otherwise known as SEX) may feel uncomfortable placed in that position, then where is the difference between heterosexual and same sex men or woman enter the picture? As a male, whether I'm attracted to males or females, I'm not going to feel comfortable openly showering with either, that simply might sexually turn me on or may turn them on.

 

Zolar; Public restroom, public pools, gyms and so forth, normally have booths or curtains. No new type a facility would be needed and if privacy, for any number of reasons (not limited to sexual orientation) can be maintained. Actually, I'm not sure how much potential exist for exposure anyway, except for my basic training in the USAF (1950's) our barracks had stalls or single bathrooms for 2-4 people and in nearly all 4 years, I showered and used the toilet in private. Has something really changed all that much? Seems like guys and gals in many Higher learning facilities have joint facilities, but privacy is maintain if desired, lock the door.

[Zolar V]

Why should new facilities be built? It's not like you're introducing an entirely new gender to the bases -- gays have always been there, whether it makes you feel awkward in the shower or not. It's just that now you know who they are. If that makes people too uncomfortable to use the same restroom facilities, I'd suggest that's their problem, not the military's.

 

You've already admitted you know a few gay people in the military. Clearly the facilities function fine at the moment with gay people in them. Repealing DADT will just remove their threat of discharge.

 

The reason why new facilities would be built is because of sex segregation. in essence repealing the "dadt" policy is creating a new gender. Jackson33 has quite the explanation of the gender thing below.

 

Phil; Question, not wanting to discuss this issue. If sex has nothing to do with taking showers, why do we provide separate facilities for Men & Woman? If the answer is some of each gender (otherwise known as SEX) may feel uncomfortable placed in that position, then where is the difference between heterosexual and same sex men or woman enter the picture? As a male, whether I'm attracted to males or females, I'm not going to feel comfortable openly showering with either, that simply might sexually turn me on or may turn them on.

 

Zolar; Public restroom, public pools, gyms and so forth, normally have booths or curtains. No new type a facility would be needed and if privacy, for any number of reasons (not limited to sexual orientation) can be maintained. Actually, I'm not sure how much potential exist for exposure anyway, except for my basic training in the USAF (1950's) our barracks had stalls or single bathrooms for 2-4 people and in nearly all 4 years, I showered and used the toilet in private. Has something really changed all that much? Seems like guys and gals in many Higher learning facilities have joint facilities, but privacy is maintain if desired, lock the door.

 

I did USAF basic almost 2 years ago, and the same dormitories that you were in, i was in. However you must also know that the public facilities do not provide any sort of privacy to begin with. Yes, it would be much cheaper to install these types of privacy items, but its the military, They aren't going to go with the easy/sensible/cheap way.

The basic idea of sexual segregation and gays, is that if you have a gay in a room with another gay. that is the same as having a man and a women in the same room. So applied to showering facilites, if you have a gay and a man in a facility then that is the same as having a man(gay) and a women(the other guy, but in the eyes of the gay man it is a women). Of course that works in reverse as well. women(gay) and a man(other women). The reason why i explain it as such is because of my heterosexual nature, it is easier for me to understand how they perceive each other by understanding that their perception is quite similar to mine. IE i see a female as being attractive, a female gay sees a female as attractive in the same way i do.

[ydoaPs]

Members of the armed forces already DO shower with gays.

[ajb]

Lets hear your veiws...

 

Are you asking personally, if we would feel comfortable showing with homosexuals or if it should be an issue in the military?

 

I remember back in school having showers after PE in which we were all expected to use together. We all soon kept our underwear on for this. I don't think that was a "gay issue", rather at 13 we are all developing and people are curious. By the time one is old enough to join the military one should now be serious enough about life not to make an issue about showering together.

 

That said, in my profession it is rare to be asked to shower with another man, or for that matter a woman.

 

Personally I would rather shower alone, or with my wife

[Ladeira]

I'm supposed to say no for an obvious reason.

 

Though I don't really enjoy showering with other people, aarg. I really think they should build individual shower boxes if the problem is that.

 

Gay = straight like black = white, the differences between two people aren't to be bad.

Like blue and black eyes.

 

So easy. B)

 

Cause, banning gays from military is such an idiot thing, but you could never consider a gay man guilty if he gets... hm horny showering with the others. It's nature. So I am really guided to support individual shower.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Ladeira

[Severian]

I wouldn't have any problem being in a communal shower with a gay guy. I also wouldn't have a problem being in a communal shower with a girl.

 

Being in a private one with either would be an issue for me though (unless the girl was my wife obviously).

Edited August 3, 2010 by Severian

[Zolar V]

I wouldn't have any problem being in a communal shower with a gay guy. I also wouldn't have a problem being in a communal shower with a girl.

 

Being in a private one with either would be an issue for me though (unless the girl was my wife obviously).

 

Could you explain what you mean a bit more concisely?

[ParanoiA]

Actually, you can leave the "gay" modifier off, as I don't really care what gets you off. I don't like showering with other people, except for hot women, and I do prefer private over communal.

 

I guess I'd make a poor addition to any communal institution of any kind so my opinion is fairly worthless I guess.

[Sayonara]

Get over it and finish your damned shower.

We need you to go and shoot some people.

[Severian]

Could you explain what you mean a bit more concisely?

 

Hmmm... I am not sure what you misunderstood.

 

I mean that I have no problem with gay men being in a communal shower, at say the gym. This must happen all the time without me knowing.

 

I would also have no problem with having mixed gender communal nudity. This doesn't really happen with showers in my country since women have separate changing/showering areas. But it wouldn't bother me. In fact, when in Europe, I sometimes share a communal sauna with completely naked women, and have no embarrassment or discomfort.

 

I would have an issue with either case though, if the activity was not happening in a public space. For example, if I had a sauna at home (I don't), I think I would be uncomfortable sharing it with a naked gay friend or a naked woman (other than my wife). I have no logical reasoning as to why this would make me uncomfortable, but I think it would.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Severian

[eleven]

Not a problem for me. If I attract them then it's okay, I like being loved - If one of them makes the mistake of thinking that I'm homosexual then I'll swiftly explain that I'm not, and continue as shower-buddies. It must be hard for gays, I make mistakes choosing the right women - the gays have a shallow audience. Mistakes are fine, just don't make them twice with the same person and I have no problem.

 

tl:dr I'm confortable showering with homosexuals.