"Boosting" your immune system

[mooeypoo]

There are quite a lot of products out there that claim to "boost" your immune system. Most of them seem bunk, and I've read a lot of articles saying that not only are the majority of the products not what they claim to be, but that the claim itself that anything can boost the immune system is bunk on its own. The immune system isn't something we can "boost"... or so I've read.

 

But the other day I was watching a random program on discovery channel about a group of people stranded in the icy expanses of Alaska, trying to make their way out. They were hungry and dehydrated, and one of them started a cold. Pretty soon, they were all quite sick. The narrator explained that since the group was barely eating and was wasting a lot of energy on barely any caloric intake, their immune system is low and when one person is ill, the odds are much higher for the rest of them to get sick too.

 

So that got me thinking.. obviously, the immune system can be "less than ideal" when we eat bad, or with bad sleep habits, etc. Seeing as in our current day and age many people are under a lot of stress and are eating not-too-well and sometimes not sleep very well either and don't exercise as much as they need, the majority of people today probably don't have their immune system as "boosted" as they should have it... no?

 

I mean, if that's the case, then why is it that the concept of 'boosting your immune system' is so bunk or wrong? and is it at all? is there any merit to the claim that things can boost your immune system?

 

And if the claim ITSELF is not bunk, then what are the parameters to judge the individual products that exist in the market and see if any of them might actually be real?

 

~moo

[Moontanman]

Does feeling better after you do something count? I eat throat lozenges with zinc when i have a sore throat, it seems to help, vitamin d is supposed to make you healthier so i keep a good tan (if you are fair skinned this might be best done in moderation) but I do feel better when i have a good tan, eating salads also make me feel better especially if there is lots of fruit in the salads, is this anecdotal or does the way i feel count?

[Genecks]

The idea with a lack of sleep relates to an increases amount of stress. This relates to psychoneuroimmunology.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoneuroimmunology

 

Personally, I've not found that lack of sleep gets me sick. Furthermore, I've found that starving myself tends to make me healthier. I seem to have quite an interesting physiology. Maybe my body can deal with the physical stress I put my nervous system and immunology through.

 

Then again, people don't just get sick. I think for a lot of normal people, infection occurs through the oral route: People take their hands, touch something, and that something goes in the mouth.

 

But to add to the conversation, I've read that upon first signs a person is getting sick, if he/she takes vitamin C, then it can improve the chances of a quicker recovery. Truth be, whenever I encounter a sick person, I wash my hands like crazy and take a vitamin that day.

 

Animals other than humans have shown to produce vitamin C when they get ill. Humans don't produce vitamin C.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Genecks

[swansont]

Most supplements are crap; in the US they do not have to be tested to show they work, and the ones that have been independently tested have almost all failed to confirm their supposed effects. If you watch the commercials they are often clever in avoiding making direct claims ("I use echinacea to boost my immune system" is not a direct claim that it will do this. "I use echinacea and feel great!" is an anecdote)

 

AFAIK the one thing that has been tested and shown to have an effect is vitamin D.

[StringJunky]

Most supplements are crap; in the US they do not have to be tested to show they work, and the ones that have been independently tested have almost all failed to confirm their supposed effects. If you watch the commercials they are often clever in avoiding making direct claims ("I use echinacea to boost my immune system" is not a direct claim that it will do this. "I use echinacea and feel great!" is an anecdote)

 

AFAIK the one thing that has been tested and shown to have an effect is vitamin D.

 

Here's a report on a study that backs that up:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100307215534.htm

 

On and off over the last two or three decades when I've looked into the claims of nutritional supplements and then looked at the hard evidence I can find, the proper scientific results and conclusions are too often either vague or not better than a placebo. Even when one might benefit from a particular supplement they can often be in the wrong form for the body to assimilate it. I suspect the only way to boost your immune system is to infect yourself with the bugs (or at least milder forms of them) you are trying to avoid...the body has to know what it's enemy is before it can do anything to pre-empt it. You could have the most potent 'killer' cells and immune system in your body anywhere but they are useless if they don't know who the enemy is.

 

Given that we can't practically vaccinate for every possible pathogen the best we can do is make sure we can recover from a pathogenic scenario ok by making sure we eat a broad spectrum of healthy foods, sleep well, engage in constant moderate exercise and minimise mental stress. This is the general gist of the UK's NHS advice. Many people I suspect shun this kind of advice because it requires effort when it's easier to go down to the local pharmacist or herbal shop and get a packet of Pink Unicorn Farts in tablet form and then fantasise they've sorted their problem.

 

Vitamin supplements are, by and large, snake oil and boost nothing but the contents of your urine IMO.

Edited July 22, 2010 by StringJunky

[swansont]

Here's a report on a study that backs that up:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100307215534.htm

 

 

Hmmm:

 

No definitive studies have been carried out for the optimal daily dosage of vitamin D but as a large proportion of the population have very low concentrations of vitamin D in the blood, a number of experts recommend between 25-50

mg micrograms

a day.

 

mg is milligrams. One of those is a typo, and off by three orders of magnitude from the other.

[StringJunky]

Hmmm:

 

No definitive studies have been carried out for the optimal daily dosage of vitamin D but as a large proportion of the population have very low concentrations of vitamin D in the blood, a number of experts recommend between 25-50

mg micrograms

a day.

 

mg is milligrams. One of those is a typo, and off by three orders of magnitude from the other.

 

 

Just checked with the UK's Food Standards Agency Recommendations on Vitamin D and they say 10 micrograms so that should be 'mcg' and not 'mg'.

 

The reason for the difference in the quoted recommended dose is that the FSA's RDA is the minimum amount to prevent deficiency and not necessarily the amount a person actually requires for optimal function and there isn't a general consensus what the correct amounts are...they err on the side of safety.

Edited July 22, 2010 by StringJunky

[CharonY]

In short: the immune system is very complex, consisting of a lot of individual components. As such it is hard to assess optimal or even normal levels to begin with. In essence it is an equilibrium system that performs within some parameters, though there is no true metric to define an optimum. Its performance is also dependent on a number of other factors, as e.g. previous exposure.

As such it is easy to envision that any supplement that may interact with any part of the immune system has a higher potential of disrupting the regulatory network (or doing nothing) rather than boosting it.

 

Now what happens during stress or lack of sleep? Common answers are that the immune system gets weakened, but things are more complicated than that. Stress, for instance can act via the humoral system on certain elements of the immune system, but it is not a simple reduction. For instance, certain certain forms of stress, resulting in triggering autoimmune disease (i.e. overreaction of the immune system rather than a lowering of the immune system). In many cases the precise molecular mechanisms are unknown though in the given example certain T-helper cell types have been implicated.

Can supplements therefore restore such defects?

Most unlikely. Normally the only way to restore your immune system is to remove the source of the distortion, as e.g. getting sleep or remove the stressor. In the absence of the knowledge regarding the molecular mechanisms and, even worse, the underlying distortions in the regulatory interactions no simple remedy is likely to be forthcoming.

 

Regarding vitamin D, it is known to modulate immune responses, and a deficiency is likely to reduce efficiency. However, it does not mean that you can use it to boost the immune system above normal levels. In other words, it is more of a reduce deficiency effect rather than a boost effect.

Edited July 22, 2010 by CharonY

[swansont]

 

Regarding vitamin D, it is known to modulate immune responses, and a deficiency is likely to reduce efficiency. However, it does not mean that you can use it to boost the immune system above normal levels. In other words, it is more of a reduce deficiency effect rather than a boost effect.

 

That makes a lot of sense, and is a nice and concise explanation.

[Chhaiyudh]

I have seen a lot of products claiming to boost the immune system. I know some of them do truely boost the immune system like vitamin C but others I'm not sure of or I know they don't boost the immune system.

[Mr Skeptic]

Well if you are lacking something you can probably boost your immune system from where it is now by getting the right quantities of various vitamins and minerals. I hear lots of both good and bad things about vitamin and mineral supplementation. Vitamin C however, take as much as you like since it is water soluble and any excess will be filtered out of your body shortly.

 

It is however possible to boost your immune system. One good method is playing a lot in the dirt, which works best and feels most natural when you are a kid. While exposing yourself to lots of germs is a good way to get sick, it also trains your immune system to recognize the germs. However, this can also backfire: check out influenza immunities for a good example.

 

Another way to boost your immune system is via drugs called adjuvants.

 

Yet another way to boost immune response, locally, is to wound yourself and invoke the inflammation response.

 

Of course if your immune system is overactive with nothing to fight I hear it might decide to attack your own cells, so you might earn yourself an autoimmune disease for your efforts.

[CharonY]

In a way, yes infecting oneself in low levels may strengthen your immune response against a full-fledged infection. This is how the immune system works, but that is not what the OP was asking. However, you may be a bit misinformed what adjuvants are. They increase the immunogenicity of a vaccine, for example, by making your immune system respond to the injected antigens more strongly. But they do not work alone. So again, it would not be a boost of your immune system, but rather increasing the effect of a vaccine.

[mooeypoo]

This makes sense, CharonY.

 

This is probably completely anecdotal, but I am just wondering if anyone has any idea why this might happen. I am on vacation now in Israel, visiting my friends and family after two years of not being here. I also had to do some buraucracy stuff about visa and school issues, so the beginning of this trip involved some stress.

I also took an 11-hour flight from NYC to Tel Aviv, which added to jetlag and some lack of sleep. I came to Israel (40 degrees C, average, with ~70% humidity) and immediately got sick. Sniffling and sneezing and coughing in the middle of summer. Total bummer.

 

My non-skeptical friends immediately said I should've taken some of those weird "immune booster" products and drink lots of orange juice. I drink orange juice and eat well anyways so that's less of an issue, but I call BS on the immune-booster crap.

 

But I don't have much to tell them atm... I *am* sick after a long fight, and my friends are all over me about how I probably got a cold from someone in the plane or from the change of temperatures going from A/C to outside heat all the time.

 

I can kind of get the plane argument -- it's a closed space with lots of people and long duration -- but the thing about going from A/C to heat all the time is weird. Change of temperatures can get you a cold? I thought I read somewhere that this is bunk.

 

But this is also not the first time something like this happens to me and my friends. Usually in the summer, after flights even more so, some of us get an annoying cold. IN THE SUMMER.

 

What could lead to this? does it have anything to do with lowered-immune system? or change of temps? or A/C? can it be solved by any of the 'immune boosters'? or orange juice?

 

It sounds weird to me that it can, but anecdotally, I *am* sick.

 

Help me solve this critically and prove my naive friends wrong!

 

~moo

[CharonY]

I think the link to AC is very weak. The strongest effect is actually drying of the mucous membranes which render them less effective as a barrier against pathogens. Juice does not help except for wetting (in which case you would also have to snort it, which I do not recommend).

Temperature itself has very little effect.

 

Other things to consider: exposure to a large number of potentially novel pathogens from across the world that your body is currently not adapted to (probably depends on how frequently you travel), plus stress due to traveling itself.

 

People for example often have minor gastrointestinal inconveniences while eating food during their holidays, which at least partially may be attributed to the ingestion of novel (or rather slightly different) bacteria in that process.

Edited July 30, 2010 by CharonY

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

But I don't have much to tell them atm... I *am* sick after a long fight, and my friends are all over me about how I probably got a cold from someone in the plane or from the change of temperatures going from A/C to outside heat all the time.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/15159555/page/2/

 

Is the closed environment of an airplane a repository for germs?

Not necessarily. In order to address the “is a plane a moving culture for viruses and bacteria” question, we have to understand how the aircraft cabin is ventilated. Once in flight, the air from the outside (which should be sterile at higher altitudes) is vented through the engines where it is heated, compressed and subsequently cooled. It then flows into the plane from overhead air vents, circulates across the aircraft and exits from the floor of the cabin. The airflow is laminar, i.e. side-to-side. This means it flows from top to bottom in lateral sections, not from front to back. Usually about 50% of the air is re-circulated, and as this happens, it passes through very special air filters, which remove dust, vapors, bacteria, and mold. Although a virus would be too small to be trapped by the filter, we know that viruses are usually attached (or spread by) droplets. And these are removed by the filters.

 

The air is usually exchanged at a rate of 15 to 20 air changes per hour, (compared to 12 air changes per hour in a typical office building). As a matter of fact, in a recent report to the House Subcommittee on Aviation, experts stated that “data from epidemiologic studies and microbiologic assays indicate that the risk of airborne infections currently appears to be very low.” And an independent published research showed that the concentration of biological microorganisms in planes is lower than in an office building, an ordinary city street and on public buses or trains.

 

Planes aren't the infection risk everyone makes them out to be, although of course if the guy next to you sneezes on you, the air filters don't matter. But that could happen anywhere.

[mooeypoo]

That's a good point. So the fact that anecotally this happens more when people are flying is strictly anecdotal, or can it have another reason, say something related to stress that usually accompanies flying (or the holiday season) or jetlag?

[Moontanman]

Most likely dry nasal passages did it, i use a nasal moisturizing spray like Ocean, it's a mild saline spray that moisturizes your sinuses and helps prevent infections. It really works for me, even if you do get an infection it helps make it milder....

[jackson33]

In supposing moo feels she as a virus, opposed to a non-virus infectious illness (a bad cold), it's probably an influenza type virus picked up (by contact) enroute, on the plane or shortly after arriving in Israel. In further supposing she has not seen a doctor (a mistake), is running fever a slight fever under 102F, or and especially has not eaten or drank anything spoiled or unusual to her digestive system (mild food poisoning/indigestion problem) she probably has a simple cold, psychologically enhanced by being on vacation and a probable ground humidity and temperature change.

 

CR: I think you'll find anyplace large groups of people convene, Hospitals, Schools, Shopping Centers and Airports, where a by nature people make near contact with many others, directly or indirectly, you'll see increased infections. I do agree, the plane is not likely a good place for a virus to spread, or an enclosed building, but would question how certain germs, fungi and other microbes can spread.

 

An infectious disease is a clinically evident illness resulting from the presence of pathogenic microbial agents, including pathogenic viruses, pathogenic bacteria, fungi, protozoa, multicellular parasites, and aberrant proteins known as prions. [/Quote]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease

 

The only reason I know anything about this is, I had a really bad virus in the mid 1940's, other wise known as Polio, along with a desire not to pick up influenza in my later years. Additionally, my folks, in their later years got an influenza shot each year, still caught some flu, every other year or so. I never have received a shot and don't know if I ever had the flu (knock on wood). It's kind of an interest of mine, why?

 

Anyway moo, I hope by the time you read this your feeling much better, suspect you will be or have already seen a doctor. I can't add anything to you base question "increasing the immune system", personally I don't feel you can, doubt you could worsen it either and any parts that never appear or degrade are for reasons, other than what can be controlled with diet. Pure opinion.

 

Moon, I think your first post this thread is pretty much what actually is true. I'm a believer in 'mind over matter' and honestly feel many sickness are psychosomatic reactions, or the reverse, doing something you personally feel is effective, will be....

 

 

psychosomatic ,sI-kow-sow'ma-tik or ,sI-kow-su'ma-tik

 

Used of illness or symptoms resulting from neurosis

"Disturbances in which emotional maladjustment leads to chronic dysfunction in some organ system are nowadays referred to as psychosomatic disorders"[/Quote]

 

http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=psychosomatic