Words

[Klaplunk]

Just a question:

How would an adult think if he/she never was taught academa or word? I presume very dumb. If you see something you like, you think something like "That looks nice" or "I like that" or one of many other word combinations. If you didn't have word, what exactly would you think if you seen something you thought looked nice. Also, would you be able to think in 3D rather than 1D? Is word 1Dimentional thought, seeing as you're basically thinking in lines, from left to right.

 

AFDKGDKOG DfOJG DFJO

___________ _____ ____

 

That's just a brief example of what I'm getting at.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Klaplunk

[Klaynos]

I recall reading that people think in one of three ways, words, images or something that I cannot recall... I'll try and find the source some time for you...

[Klaplunk]

I think I have a cubic mentality - I think using lines in each direction. I'm able to create shapes in my mind - I can't colour those shapes or visualy see them all the time; sometimes I'm able to visualize my thoughts though, it takes a lot of concentration and I have to be sleepy.

[Mr Skeptic]

Formal thinking requires the use of symbols (words are a type of symbol). Our brain is a neural net, which I don't know if it has inherent symbols, and our brain has various specialized parts that we can use for thinking as well as for just processing sensory information. Using these parts we can think as if with our senses. Without words, however, we'd have to rely on these less formal thinking methods. This would work fine for some things, like sports, but not so much for things like science.

[Klaplunk]

Wouldn't it be easier to visulize what you were thinking rather than drawing out sentences in your head? Would that be the natural way to think if words didn't exist? I don't know, I can't press delete and remove a single word let alone all of them.

[Mr Skeptic]

You cannot think formally without using symbols -- formal thought requires a vocabulary. You could think in Chinese symbols if you like, it doesn't have to be actual words. Computers think using only two symbols, 0 and 1, neither of which are words. But because of how our brain works, it is easier for us to think with lots of symbols rather than a few that have to be deeply nested.

[Klaplunk]

Cool, thanks for the info. It's hard to understand what you mean though, I don't really understand how I think :S

[Zolar V]

I think in images, and i try to verbalize them with symbols(words), but usually my vocabulary fails me.

[John Cuthber]

It's quite common to see babies think, well before they learn a language.

How could such a baby decide to, for example, try to speak, if such a thought required language?

If we need language to think, how do we ever come up with new ideas (there aren't words for them)- and why do we come up with new words?

The phrase "Isn't it a beautiful day?" may mean either of two absolutely opposed things depending on whether the speaker is being ironic or not.

If thought is just a mirror of the language, how can the same piece of language have two meanings?

Many jokes also require language to have two meanings (or more); I can't see how that works if we only think in words.

Can metaphor work if a thought is expressed in words?

On the whole, I'm not convinced that we think in words or language.

[Zolar V]

I would have to agree with you John.

Not only do I think in images, but I also imagine certain emotions that correspond to the idea i want to tell. Along with visualizing the image with emotion I also predict a set of outcomes that are associated with the image

[rigney]

I walk into my back yard as my cat is lying in the grass. I either do or don't pick a thin stick from a birch tree by the porch, and long before he sees me coming. He loves to play with sticks. So, many times I carry one with me. Even with my hands behind my back, with or without the stick, Kelly gets it right every time. If I have the stick, he goes into a crouch preparing to spring. If not, he rolls over on his side and stretches, waiting for me to rub him down. I've tried several variations to trick him by either me or one of my children. But this guy is phenomenal. Am I, or the kids giving this game away? Or is Kelly simply that smart? 'cmon on over, I'll give you a shot at him. What is instinct?

Edited July 26, 2010 by rigney

[Mr Skeptic]

On the whole, I'm not convinced that we think in words or language.

 

Agreed. That's why I've been very careful to say that it is formal thought that requires language. On the other hand, language does affect how we think, and there are several experiments to demonstrate that. One was an experiment on color discernment among people who have separate words for green and blue vs those who don't.

[Klaplunk]

Why can I not delete words?

 

I'm trying hard to rid myself of words, however I'm finding it extremely hard...

 

That being said, I can't even read a whole paragraph of words without feeling disgust.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Klaplunk

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

That may be a major inconvenience in the future.

 

"I'm sorry, I didn't read the contract, as I'm opposed to words."

[Mr Skeptic]

Yet you seem to have no trouble writing 162 posts that are full of words.

[Klaplunk]

That's is a problem, which I have no choice in.

It hurts writing this, it really does. When I notice a huge paragraph, and this has only recently started happening, I think "What the f*** am I reading?". It's so ugly and horrible to look at - especially when you understand what I understand. It's horrible even - it's like a way to force fake-emotions. You can explain everything with pictures, and you can explain a lot of things with maths. I wish I could wipe my memory clean of all words, and just know of things. Would that be possible, would I still recognize an apple as an apple without knowing the word 'apple'? Would I recognize what it was without knowing the definition/word for it? I just wouldn't call it for an apple, but I would remember it's taste from previous experience, I would remember how it felt, and what it was?

[mississippichem]

especially when you understand what I understand.

 

What is it that you understand that we don't? Genuinely curious

[Klaplunk]

=] I believe in that Timecube theory which everyone thinks is crazy - but I interpret it in a slightly different way. The cube supremists seem to want world change/order, where I want world unity. So I'm a kind of esoteric-cubist. Anyway that's off-topic. On terms of words, I've came to the conclusion that without physical harm, they're impossible to forget.

 

It's "Free Speech" because the speech we're taught allows the government to continue as if it were correct. We're not free at all. Free speech is a government con.

[mississippichem]

=] I believe in that Timecube theory which everyone thinks is crazy - but I interpret it in a slightly different way. The cube supremists seem to want world change/order, where I want world unity. So I'm a kind of esoteric-cubist. Anyway that's off-topic. On terms of words, I've came to the conclusion that without physical harm, they're impossible to forget.

 

It's "Free Speech" because the speech we're taught allows the government to continue as if it were correct. We're not free at all. Free speech is a government con.

 

Okay, how does that make words evil?

[insane_alien]

mississippichem, he's trolling. best not to feed him unless you enjoy exercises in futility.

[Klaplunk]

Every time I try to disucss I'm apprently "trolling", and every time I explain myself I'm "not discussing". It took me weeks to grasp the concept of timecube, now I understand it fully, I understand why words are evil. We should paint pictures, like the egyptions did or how past civilizations did. How the Mayans wrote numbers and how they studied the flow of the time cube. We should think, talk and live by the rules of opposites - ALOT like binary coding on a computer. A computer is basically a tesseract, a timecube within the original timecube. Moving back to the topic of words: I can walk up to a friend and greet him in many differen't ways that don't include the dictionary. I can say: "Oy!" "Yo!", I can also just wave or acknowledge a friend. I don't need to say Hello, if we know each other and acknowledge each other then word isn't essential. I can tell if he/she's sad or happy just by looking. It goes further, word isn't required for living life, in-fact we would live much better without it.

[insane_alien]

yeah, we know you're trolling. no point keeping it up.

[Klaplunk]

=] Ironic. Well I'm gave you my source of evidence. I won't need to link the website again. I still believe word is an intended evil to mankind - The way you're using it is quite evil in itself. Most of nature is good, word is evil. I'm not trolling, what you're doing is trolling. Giving your uneducated opinion in hope of causing trouble. You're motives are clear, you're not discussing, you simply want to start a flame war or get this thread closed. I'm still discussing so if you don't wish to discuss then please do not troll and instead just not post? Wouldn't that be fair? So the people that want to discuss can discuss and you can go ahead and ignore the thread all-together. I see this attitude in most of your replies to any thread.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Klaplunk

[Mr Skeptic]

I understand why words are evil. We should paint pictures, like the egyptions did or how past civilizations did.

 

Here, have at it. http://www.gimp.org/features/

[Zolar V]

FOOD FOOD FOOD!!!!!