Education Before Formal Education

[Protein]

Unfortunately I'm still dredging my way through high school. Once I'm finished with this institution, I'm looking to get degrees in philosophy, physics, and mathematics. I'm not sure which one of those I would want a PhD in. Probably philosophy. (Money isn't an issue.) Anyways, I really need to accelerate my education. Philosophy I have no problem studying on my own, because it's relatively accessible. Mathematics and science is a little bit more difficult to break into, it seems. Obviously popular science is a way of learning about science, but it's only useful up to a point, for someone who will be studying science in University. And I don't think there is such a thing as popular mathematics. So I guess what I'm asking is, what are the best ways to go about independent study? I need a) popular science books; b ) textbook-like materials on science (physics) and mathematics from junior/senior high school years onwards; c) anything that helps reinforce these, learn these, or provides questions, problems, etc. Is this possible or am I way over my head?

[timo]

I'd skip the pop-sci books - what are they supposed to be for? If it's just for fun then go ahead of course - it'll just not speed up your education. And there are pop-sci math books. I've read at least two myself (one named something like "Fermat's last theorem" and something about game theory - the latter completely sucked).

 

Since money is not an issue, why don't you simply buy textbooks used in school levels or university levels above your current one? I definitely recommend something printed over something online. Getting a recommendation should be easy; just go to the appropriate institution and ask (or send a mail). If you feel bored with the stuff you currently learn in school and are interested in math/physics then I'd definitely like to encourage you to look into stuff beyond what you currently do. You are certainly not way over your head to go for learning something more advanced; but start with something slightly more advanced rather than trying to jump into research papers. As for reinforcing what you learned: At least for physics that is very easy: Get your hands on some exercises and try solving them. For low-level math that also works nicely.

[tomgwyther]

Ahh, such enthusiasm so young; It's a great thing.

In short, spend as much time as you can in libraries and book shops - and of course - discussing your ideas and aspirations on SFN.

 

I'm guessing your from the USA, so I'm not entirely sure how free education is over there.

There's a vast difference between schooling and education. I - for one- educated myself in science over the last 15 years by browsing libraries and bookshops to find what interested me most.

Schooling for me, was just somting to be got out of the way. After that I worked at the university of Portsmouth as well as being a professional touring musician. From which I gained an education.

Try not to see a degree or PhD as an accolade to which you must aspire; rather as a marker or flag point which reflects your accademic achievent.

[DJBruce]

What is your current math and science background (ie: AP Calc, IB Math, AP Physics...)?

[Protein]

Thank you for the replies so far, everyone.

 

@timo: Regarding popular science books, I'm unsure why you wouldn't find them educational? I'm in the process of reading "The Scientists" which is a fairly detailed history of science. I'll be reading "The Fabric of the Cosmos" next. Money isn't an issue for schooling, but currently it is an issue. So buying textbooks in bulk is not viable for me.

 

@tom: I'm actually from Canada. I realize education and schooling can be separate things. I just say that for the sake of brevity and simplicity. School to me is just a means, not an end. I'm not interested in the status of having a PhD or anything. It's just something to do for someone who's entirely immersed in learning, particularly of philosophy and science.

 

@DJBruce: My science background is pitiful compared to my philosophy background. (Mainly because I've pursued philosophy on my own, whereas science/math I've only been exposed to at school). I'll be honest; I'm only half-way through school. Canada doesn't offer any AP courses, or anything for someone looking for a challenge. It's quite dull. My first physics class won't be until the school year starts. My only exposure to physics has been through popular science, articles, explanations, etc. For example, I understand relativity in layman's terms, but I don't know anything technical behind it. As far as math: The most "advanced" work I've done is quadratics and trigonometry. Pitiful, I know. Even then, the courses didn't EXPLAIN quadratics or trigonometry -- they only gave us the equations so we could solve problems. It's like a part of the puzzle is missing. I don't think it matters that I'm only so basic... I think it's more important that I'm eager and willing to learn. And have a determination.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Protein

[DJBruce]

@DJBruce: My science background is pitiful compared to my philosophy background. (Mainly because I've pursued philosophy on my own, whereas science/math I've only been exposed to at school). I'll be honest; I'm only half-way through school. Canada doesn't offer any AP courses, or anything for someone looking for a challenge. It's quite dull. My first physics class won't be until the school year starts. My only exposure to physics has been through popular science, articles, explanations, etc. For example, I understand relativity in layman's terms, but I don't know anything technical behind it. As far as math: The most "advanced" work I've done is quadratics and trigonometry. Pitiful, I know. Even then, the courses didn't EXPLAIN quadratics or trigonometry -- they only gave us the equations so we could solve problems. It's like a part of the puzzle is missing. I don't think it matters that I'm only so basic... I think it's more important that I'm eager and willing to learn. And have a determination.

 

I was just trying to gauge were you could probably start off. For math you could start off with either pre-calc or jump right into calc all depending on what you feel is right for you. Do you have any exposure to limits, sequences/series, polar functions, or parametrics?

 

As for physics, it will be hard to go deep into physics without a knowledge of calculus. However, you could work from a good AP Physics B textbook. These textbooks will present a wide array of physics topics at the college level, however, it will all be trig based.

[Protein]

I was just trying to gauge were you could probably start off. For math you could start off with either pre-calc or jump right into calc all depending on what you feel is right for you. Do you have any exposure to limits, sequences/series, polar functions, or parametrics?

 

As for physics, it will be hard to go deep into physics without a knowledge of calculus. However, you could work from a good AP Physics B textbook. These textbooks will present a wide array of physics topics at the college level, however, it will all be trig based.

 

I don't have any exposure to sequences/series, polar functions, or parametrics.

 

Any suggestions for textbooks that I could find in Canada? Even any online resources?

[DJBruce]

I don't have any exposure to sequences/series, polar functions, or parametrics.

 

Any suggestions for textbooks that I could find in Canada? Even any online resources?

 

Since you don't have any experience in those, you might wanna start with at least a little bit of pre-calculus before you do calculus. I really could not recommend any pre-calculus resources.

 

As for physics resources, I've used Physics 5th ed. by Giancoli. It was a fairly good text. Easy to read, decent questions. You could also try HyperPhyics or Gerard't Hooft's site.

 

Here is a list of textbooks the College Board recommends for teach AP Physics B.

[CharonY]

The problem with popular books is that they really do not help in a science curriculum. They are more about digestible narratives than providing the basis concepts and fundamentals that you need to eventually build your understanding of a given topic.

[timo]

@timo: Regarding popular science books, I'm unsure why you wouldn't find them educational?

Of course popular science books can be educational - they just don't teach you science. You can still learn a lot of interesting anecdotes from them, probably even anecdotes about science or how other people do science. But people tend to mistake being told nice little anecdotes and comparisons as having understood the real science.

There's a joke: A physicist and a businessman sit in a plane and figure they both read "A brief history of time" by Steven Hawking. The physicist says "oh, I really liked the book. but there's a few things I didn't quite understand". The businessman replies: "No problem. I'll explain them to you".

(though perhaps it's only funny when you are a physicist and hang around on science forums)

 

I'm in the process of reading "The Scientists" which is a fairly detailed history of science. I'll be reading "The Fabric of the Cosmos" next.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with reading popular science books. If you enjoy that, then go for it. You just sounded so damn serious about having to get the worlds best PhD and completely focusing on it that I thought you should know that the time you spend reading those books could technically be better invested in learning something real. For the record: I'd strongly advice going for what interests you, not what you think might benefit your career most.

 

Money isn't an issue for schooling, but currently it is an issue. So buying textbooks in bulk is not viable for me.

In Germany, the average school book lasts one or two years. How many do you expect to need per year? Not to mention that you could simply borrow one in your library or maybe ask in your school if they have one left over that they can borrow to you [same for university for more advanced stuff].

As a matter of fact: Perhaps you should ask you math and physics teacher about learning more advanced stuff for yourself. I think a good physics teacher should support such an endeavor (and also be able to gauge your skill - possibly better than you can yourself).

Edited July 31, 2010 by timo

[Ringer]

Personally I like like to watch and listen to lectures and speakers.  Some good websites for this are:

 

http://academicearth.org/

http://videolectures.net/

http://fora.tv/topic/science

http://thesciencenetwork.org/