Scientology

[7th]

 

Imagine if there was a group that were able to defy science/religion with unfailable logic, alongside a promise of spiritual immortality. A group of men/women who just help the world. What if this group had the knowledge to potentially destroy profits in religion-control, modern-sciences and certian political groups ~ although their good intentions, their actions would not be accepted by certain peoples "way of life".

 

~How would the media interpret such a group? More importantly would the media lie? And if you had to send a message, no matter how discreet, how would you do it?

~What certain political figures in the past may have endangered themselves for this cause?

 

The mind is the message.

a quote from www.skepdic.com, a site I recently starting using

 

Just wanted to get everyones opinion on scientology, is it a religion worth getting into?

Edited August 16, 2010 by 7th

[Moontanman]

Well if you mind an incredibly controlling religion completely made up by a second rate science fiction writer then I guess it's ok.... Raelism is more fun and has lots more sex, and aliens too.... paganism has lots of nekked girls dancing around bonfires (just so you can compare them )

[7th]

If I were the media that's exactly how I'd interpret them.

[Moontanman]

If I were the media that's exactly how I'd interpret them.

 

I'm not sure what you mean can you be specific?

[7th]

If I were the media, and scientology somehow came up with unfailable logic that may have changed a few things, a few views on the current world, politics and some sciences. That could potentially overtake many religions with logic rather than... 'faith'; I would use the following ploy: Scientology is a group that thinks aliens, leaded by master Xeon who found out that his planets were over-populated, so he dropped us here with all of our current technology and from that we progressed and populated each square meter of land. The group itself asks for much money, millions to be a level 10 scientologist and use mind control techniques: pseudoscience.

[Moontanman]

If I were the media, and scientology somehow came up with unfailable logic that may have changed a few things, a few views on the current world, politics and some sciences. That could potentially overtake many religions with logic rather than... 'faith'; I would use the following ploy: Scientology is a group that thinks aliens, leaded by master Xeon who found out that his planets were over-populated, so he dropped us here with all of our current technology and from that we progressed and populated each square meter of land. The group itself asks for much money, millions to be a level 10 scientologist and use mind control techniques: pseudoscience.

 

 

So your contention is that L. Ron Hubbard did not make up Scientology?

[timo]

Imagine there's a group selling you bullshit and making a good penny with it. A group of men and women who just want to rip you off. What if that group is completely ruthless and won't just take a few bucks but aims to totally control your mind and life. What if this group was faced with opposition from people who prefer not having themselves, their friends or their fellow citizens brainwashed?

- How would such a group portray itself? More importantly: would they lie about their intentions? And if they had to send a message on a science forum, would it make any sense?

- Who read this far to risk seeing the end of this post?

Maybe we're all trans-dimensional beings of pure energy.

 

I don't think conspiracy theories mixed with ridiculous phrases provide a good starting point for discussion.

Edited August 16, 2010 by timo

[7th]

He may have made it up... I can't see him making it up with no premise; 100%. What I do believe is that he had backbone -- If I were to tell you I knew this backbone, I would be tagged as "psycho" or "pseudo", or "psuedo-psycho" whatever, all that matters is I know exactly what they group condemns, and all I had to do was look at the symbol, and watch a few videos of tom cruize. I got to the point where I'm uncomfortable, scared that my current experiences/knowledge may endanger me and my family. I've done a lot of scurrying down different rabbit holes, picking out parts here and there, comparing and re-comparing, doing the essential dirty work to understand certian aspects of life with better vision and thought. I just want to help people, and I know why. Confronted with so much gulli-goo, things that try and sway me away from anything that directly points to what I know/had found... It just doesn't appeal to me, this information that flows through society like a disease.

 

"The only man in the world who doesn't believe he's mad, is a mad man"

[Moontanman]

He may have made it up... I can't see him making it up with no premise; 100%.

 

Really? So aliens came down and gave him the no shit real take on reality? Sounds a little bit like Raelism...

 

What I do believe is that he had backbone --

 

More accurately cojones....

 

If I were to tell you I knew this backbone, I would be tagged as "psycho" or "pseudo", or "psuedo-psycho" whatever, all that matters is I know exactly what they group condemns,

 

Here you will not be called names, it is against the rules. Tell us please.

 

and all I had to do was look at the symbol, and watch a few videos of tom cruize. I got to the point where I'm uncomfortable, scared that my current experiences/knowledge may endanger me and my family. I've done a lot of scurrying down different rabbit holes, picking out parts here and there, comparing and re-comparing, doing the essential dirty work to understand certian aspects of life with better vision and thought. I just want to help people, and I know why. Confronted with so much gulli-goo, things that try and sway me away from anything that directly points to what I know/had found... It just doesn't appeal to me, this information that flows through society like a disease.

 

I really do not understand what you are saying here, please clarify this.

 

"The only man in the world who doesn't believe he's mad, is a mad man"

 

An interesting quote, who said it?

 

I think this thread should be moved to the religion forum....

[7th]

Really? So aliens came down and gave him the no shit real take on reality? Sounds a little bit like Raelism...

I wouldn't jump to conclusions on the premise behind scientology. I don't think it's truly what it's made out to be, very discreet and subtle, giving advice to people behind shadows attempting to lend a hand to those who may be in the same position as I. An alien, maybe but the image? I don't think so.

 

 

More accurately cojones....

Agreed.

 

Here you will not be called names, it is against the rules. Tell us please.

I'm aware of the rules and I've seen the true scientific nature of this board, and I respect that greatly; furthermore I'm aware that the information I may provide may not go down well, whether accepted as true or not - either way, perhaps it's better if I keep this information to myself and let those who truly want to understand what I understand, do it by there own means. The danger of even the "thought" is too much of a risk to just throw around in front of a majority.

 

I really do not understand what you are saying here, please clarify this.

This is partly answered in the before answer; however I'll allow myself to say, "It ties in with what I knew before hand". It doesn't take much digging to find your own evidence, and it's probably better that way, as it won't disturb anyone. I hope you understand.

 

 

An interesting quote, who said it?

Youtube Video (a few minutes in)

5 minutes - 5:30

 

I think this thread should be moved to the religion forum....

I hope not! I don't meet the post requirement! But go ahead and I'll just lurk for a few hours.

[Moontanman]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions on the premise behind scientology. I don't think it's truly what it's made out to be, very discreet and subtle, giving advice to people behind shadows attempting to lend a hand to those who may be in the same position as I. An alien, maybe but the image? I don't think so.

 

Jumping to conclusions? I don't think so, the so called premise behind Scientology is well known from the Sociologists themselves.... They do their best to down play the original "premise" but they said it, either it's totally bullshit or alien spirits live inside of us....

 

I'm aware of the rules and I've seen the true scientific nature of this board, and I respect that greatly; furthermore I'm aware that the information I may provide may not go down well, whether accepted as true or not - either way, perhaps it's better if I keep this information to myself and let those who truly want to understand what I understand, do it by there own means. The danger of even the "thought" is too much of a risk to just throw around in front of a majority.

 

Then why are you here? To proselytize or simply troll? I see no reason to try and be mysterious unless your motives break site rules and you doing your best to skate around them...

 

This is partly answered in the before answer; however I'll allow myself to say, "It ties in with what I knew before hand". It doesn't take much digging to find your own evidence, and it's probably better that way, as it won't disturb anyone. I hope you understand.

 

I have no desire to research Scientology, you came here with the claims and or assertions no matter how thinly veiled, I am just trying to find your motives and to see if you have anything to say other than trying to convert others to your religion. Back up your claims....

 

 

 

I hope not! I don't meet the post requirement! But go ahead and I'll just lurk for a few hours.

 

I do not have the power to do that, but feel free to explain your position until someone with that power decides to move this thread or not.

 

Of course I am sure you think this is just media hype....

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

 

 

In the OT levels, Hubbard explains how to reverse the effects of past-life trauma patterns that supposedly extend millions of years into the past.[119] Among these advanced teachings is the story of Xenu (sometimes Xemu), introduced as the tyrant ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy." According to this story, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes. The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects.[120]

[7th]

I'm done with discussing this then.

 

If you have no interest in researching it then why do you require the answer? I specifically asked what you guys thought of scientology and gave a quote from skepdic.com. It's really up to you and when I gave the reply I wasn't just thinking about you. I have no interest of discussing my beliefs, however I'm happy to discuss scientology and see other peoples opinion on the religion. Do remember this is a discussion board and we're both well aware that there are others here who may like to contribute. I've' you the premise as to why I suddenly changed, I did some research and I tried to look behind the media presentation of the group; that's all one needs to know.

 

There is more to discuss, like they help people rehabilitate, out of third world countries, etc. I'd like to know why they have such a bad name whilst their website and current actions show no hatred to mankind. I apoligize if I come across mystical, you must understand that I am a religious-supremacist, and I worship my beliefs 24 hours a day 7 days a week, whilst doing other hobbies that I enjoy. I'm always thinking spiritually, and to be quite honest it makes my life more... alive.

 

On another note, why wouldn't you be interested in researching such a 'cult'?

Edited August 16, 2010 by 7th

[Moontanman]

I'm done with discussing this then.

 

If you have no interest in researching it then why do you require the answer? I specifically asked what you guys thought of scientology and gave a quote from skepdic.com. It's really up to you and when I gave the reply I wasn't just thinking about you. I have no interest of discussing my beliefs, however I'm happy to discuss scientology and see other peoples opinion on the religion. Do remember this is a discussion board and we're both well aware that there are others here who may like to contribute. I've' you the premise as to why I suddenly changed, I did some research and I tried to look behind the media presentation of the group; that's all one needs to know.

 

There is more to discuss, like they help people rehabilitate, out of third world countries, etc. I'd like to know why they have such a bad name whilst their website and current actions show no hatred to mankind. I apoligize if I come across mystical, you must understand that I am a religious-supremacist, and I worship my beliefs 24 hours a day 7 days a week, whilst doing other hobbies that I enjoy. I'm always thinking spiritually, and to be quite honest it makes my life more... alive.

 

On another note, why wouldn't you be interested in researching such a 'cult'?

 

 

7th, you seriously need to read and understand the rules, you are the one who needs to provide the evidence not me... As for why i wouldn't want to research a cult? Why on Earth would I want to do so?

[7th]

Respectfully, could you tell me what rule I am breaching and I'll act accordingly to make sure I don't break it.

[Mr Skeptic]

Scientology is secretive enough and sufficiently morally dubious that wikileaks has a whole category dedicated to them. Maybe you want to read up on some of their secrets before joining them?

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Scientology

[Moontanman]

In post #8 you made some assertions, it's up to you to back them up, it's not up to me to prove you wrong....

[7th]

I can't say I trust wiki, although I will read it! I don't wish to disucss it I'm sorry for mentioning anything! It's not because I'm selfish, it's the complete opposite. I have beliefs and certain obligations I don't want to break! If no-one truly wants to discuss scientology as a whole then there's no point in discussing, as I really do not wish to speak of it.

 

I believe that aliens brought us here from another planet,

I have strange dreams.

[Moontanman]

I can't say I trust wiki, although I will read it! I don't wish to disucss it I'm sorry for mentioning anything! It's not because I'm selfish, it's the complete opposite. I have beliefs and certain obligations I don't want to break! If no-one truly wants to discuss scientology as a whole then there's no point in discussing, as I really do not wish to speak of it.

 

I believe that aliens brought us here from another planet,

I have strange dreams.

 

 

Good luck with that....

[mississippichem]

Any religion that celebrities in hollywood endorse is probably about as realistic as hollywood movie physics

 

see: Speed, Terminator 3, Mission Impossible [Tom Cruise]

[padren]

I had a little experience with them. I found the people I met who put me through the tests, etc to be rather dubious and less than straight. They spoke about the damage done by thetans to play on our emotions etc, and when I commented on the language of some of their posters played on the emotional hooks they sought to nullify, they made some excuse about how only "certain level members" were supposed to see those ads whom would be unaffected, and claimed they'd move them. They didn't. The premise was faulty anyway - why attempt to play on someone's emotions if the only reason it's "morally okay" is because they won't be affected?

 

All in all, I found the church to be less than forthright and for all the positive and negative spin the church has received, I find the negative honestly holds more merit.

 

 

For the record though, I can only offer two types of assessments: one based on the sum of public information, which includes sources you may or may not trust (my own research suggests that the criticisms of the church are well founded) and the second: personal experience with the members, which may mean something to me but are entirely anecdotal when I share them with you.

 

So really, what information are you looking for? There are public and personal experiences, but I wouldn't know how to convey this information in a manner you would find reliable.