r1dermon Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 i took an aluminum tube, 1/4 inch dia. and 2' in length, filled it with KNO3+sugar+sulfer at a ratio of 63:27:10, made a nozzle with some putty stuff that i had, and then i took a BBQ scure and stuck it down the middle, forming a cone shaped core. my experience with this type of rocket building is limited, so i had no idea how the rocket motor would perform. i straped it to my homemade scale(regular scale with an aluminum V spot welded to it, and a hose clamp attached. so i threw it into the hose clamp. due to its length i figured it would probably get in the 5+ second range for burn time...well, i clocked it at 6.35 seconds of burn time, and get THIS, 14LBS PEAK THRUST!!! THATS INSANE. works for me...6 seconds at 10-14lbs...i'll take it. and at 1/4 inch. HAH. needless to say, the aluminum tube was SCORCHING hot, and the inside was completely covered in carmalized sugar. heh. total cost of the motor including tube, plaster...etc...around 95 cents. total cost of a market motor producing the same thrust for half the time...around 10 bucks for a single use...and considering mine is reloadable...muhahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 i read the first line about your fuel and knew you would get more than you expected! nice! [um, what was supposed to happen in this thread, theres not much else to say really!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Holy smokes! With that amount of thrust... I wonder what thrust the propellant in Space Shuttle boosters gets at that size... Wait, it's a quarter inch in diameter? How could it burn for 6 seconds if it's that narrow? My model rockets burn for about three seconds at 1/2 an inch wide... so it burns more slowly and gets MORE power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 must be a different fuel, different oxygen levels, different materials and maybe different ratios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 where'd you get your nitrate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 r1dermon, thats awesome. Do you have any pictures or diagrams? How much did it cost total? I want to build my own rocket motor and fly it on a rocket I've already built. My last rocket went about 2,000 ft. on 15lbs of thrust at 2.7secs. I bought the single use motor for around $16.00 How much did your motor cost in all, including parts/chemicals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 total cost including tube was 95 cents. if i get my digi cam working i'll get a pic of it. its spent right now, i need to figure out some kindof way to clean it out...acid maybe? the sugar is rock hard....well, i theorize that it burned so long because the core was so narrow. it was about as wide as a BBQ scure. i imagine that the peak thrust would be somewhere near 20 with half the burn time on a 1/8th inch core. enough stuff to make say...24 of these motors would run you about 7-10 dollars. keep in mind though, its much more logical to use something lighter than aluminum for your casing, unless you're using a larger diameter casing. i was pleasently surprised. KNO3+sugar+sulfur burns a lot slower than the typical estes motors, which use black powder. most KNO3 sites give a casing diagram, it uses that brown tape stuff, sets up rock hard, but its a pain to make...and they are single use. i just wanted an impressive test motor. boy, was it loud. only consideration is, the putty i used kind of wore away, so the nozzle is a bit larger. nothing that can't be drilled and re-set. oh, PS, i got my nitrate at brooks pharmacy, had to order it, saltpeter is 2 bucks for 6oz, (flowers of sulfur) sulfur was 3.00 for 4 oz. and the sugar was 79 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 How safe is it for someone who is basically clueless building rocket motors? Any chance of it blowing my face off somehow...also, where did you get the directions and chemicals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 its extremely safe. as long as you're not a nitwit. as i've stated, i was basically clueless as well. first thing i did was fill the tube to the top and compress it down...bad idea....took about 2 minutes to burn off, not very impressive, large amounts of smoke. make sure you make a core hole and plug the top end(opposite the nozzle) or else it will just blast a lot of powder out of there. also, for a more powerful rocket try to fill the core with black powder, REAL black powder, it can be had at any firearms store. if you can't get it, try to find some FFFF pyrodex powder, its smokeless, and burns slower than true black powder, but it'll work. make sure its pistol grade. most pharmacies should carry the required supplies. saltpeter (potassium nitrate), sulfur(flowers of sulfur), and powdered sugar, that will be at the grocery store, make sure its just plain powdered sugar, no additives. you'll need a gram scale, unless you plan on measuring out lbs of this stuff...lol. kitchens etc will carry one, linens n things...major kitchen supply stores....then make a trip to your local home depot, or hdware store, and get a good piece of aluminum pipe, preferably with small sidewalls, but not to thin, because it will burst. also, you'll want to prep the inside of your rocket before you launch with this setup, the heat that is generated by the aluminum is going to be SIGNIFICANT. it will scorch your cardboard mount in no time. to plug the motor take a spoonfull of black powder and add maybe 4-5 drops of water to it...stir it around and let it get pasty, then just plug the core with it, once this is lit(when dry) it will ignite, despite the fact that it had gotten wet...and kapow, there goes your rocket...further testing is desirable in my case, im going to try and double the power but keep the run time in the 5 second range...also, i forgot to mention that my runtime included ALL thrust. even at the final point which was barely measurable...peak thrust time was probably in the mid-high 5 second range. regardless, the only thing to remember is, metal creates shrapnel when it explodes, so keep a good distance and you should be in like flint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Wow, that's some sugar rocket. And when you have finished the experiment, you can eat the caramelized sugar! Mmm... Sulfurey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 lol, if you can chew it....even my drill had a tough time cutting through it...thinking of making a charcoal based powder so that the waste is carbon...considerably easier to clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 my appologies to everyone...after further measurement, it is 1/2 inch in dia. heh. 1/4 was off the top of my head, a general observation...however, 24inches of length is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I'm all set to try this to make one of these bad boys. I just have to find somewhere to buy potassium nitrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 http://www.skylighter.com local chemical supply company....brooks pharmacy(small quantities) skylighter sells it by the lb, lab AND food grade...food is like..4.50 a lb. dont forget the ratio, 63:27:10. 63% KNO3 27%sugar 10% sulfur...4oz of sulfur will last a pretty long time...and just remember to stay back from a metallic casing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I'm surprised... according to sites on Google, a sugar rocket is actually less powerful than your average rocket engine used in the large amateur rockets that they make for competitions. You know, the rockets they launch that hit 500 mph and 6000 feet. Or, one of them, with the same stuff they use in the Space Shuttle booster, that hit Mach 2 and 30,000 feet (they needed an FAA permit!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
researcher88 Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I just wanna ask what is the ratio and formula for the fastest / most powerful burning homemade solid rocket fuels. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted September 9, 2004 Author Share Posted September 9, 2004 researcher, cap'n is referring to a discovery channel show named "rocket challenge". in it, a team in arizona? built a rocket called the aurora. they built their own rocket motor because commercial motors only reach the O class. theirs was a P. and since each letter up the scale has the ability within its realms to be twice as powerful as the previous letter, thats like....an E motor to the tenth power. and an E motor is pretty sick. the formula they used was not given on the show, however, they did mention ammonium percalate(sp?), after that they added some kind of orange goop, total cost for the motor for materials, fuel...etc...was priced out in the 3000$+ range. not only that, you only get ten minutes to form it before it hardens, so you better have your casing set up. my advice is to stick with conventional powders until you take several chem courses and gain experience with that type of propellent. the aurora weighed in at 262lbs(i think) and it reached 30,000ft at 1400mph in a little more than 40 seconds....not something that you look forward to having CATO. heh. liquid fueled rockets are a lot more powerful than solid, unfortunately however, they're extremely complex, i've tried one and it was not pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Be EXTREMELY carefull when making any other devices!!! I have about 2 hours of home video, all taken of experiments of "home made" rocket engines, using some of the propelants mentioned in here, I`ll point out that of the 30+ demos only 2 of them actualy worked, 5 were like road flares and the rest exploded violently! there is very little diference between a rocket engine and a pipe bomb when looked at logicaly. be damn carefull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted September 10, 2004 Author Share Posted September 10, 2004 rocket motors in general, use slow burning powder. in a pipe bomb, it is preferrable to have pure black powder and only fill the pipe halfway, that way there's a better air to propellent ratio. this is the reason for the core of a rocket. without the core, then your motor will burn like a road flare, unless your nozzle is REALLY small, and even then, it wont have a lot of power. the bigger the core, the more thrust but the less duration. the smaller the core, the less thrust, the longer duration. aerotech i think makes an F class motor that puts up decent thrust numbers, but it burns for 8 seconds! thats a lot better for a really light rocket that will continue to accellerate to a blazing fast speed. but a heavier rocket wont go as high as if it had half the duration but twice the impulse. its really weird how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 rocket motors in general, use slow burning powder. unless they use, say, tetranitromethane and fluorine nitrate as oxidizers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsatan Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 just a quick read, if u have sugar left over add more oxidizer, some if there is white oxidizer left add more sugar, some where in the rage 2/3oxy to 1/2 fuel. Also add iron oxide of the catalysis as sulphur can set the rocket off on its own which isn’t good and very unsafe, just rust works as good. As for the power of this, sugar rockets are pretty poor. composite rockets using multi layers of different compounds is what they do now days, but here in the UK you don’t have chance of every trying it, laws. But be careful it doesn’t blow up. But if you'll looking into it have look at hybrid rockets, using solid and gas, nitrogen oxide and a solid plastic is what some use, works as well, and law and a lot a safer if done correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 which nitrogen oxide are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsatan Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 No2. same type they use in cars, js Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 i think youre thinking of [math]N_2O[/math] it's a strong reducing agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsatan Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Yeah miss typed it, reducing agent, oxidizer same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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