I would love some help making a chemical that may prove very useful!!

[hoppimike]

Basically, there is this chemical called "s-equol" (here is some information about it, if it's useful - I also have a full document on how to create it http://www.trc-canad...?CatNum=E593001 ) that I would love to create in fairly large amounts, as I think (through researching and looking through studies, etc) it has some significant implications for health and for the treatment of some conditions.

 

S-equol is actually made naturally in the bodies of about 30% of the world's population from soy, as they have the gut microflora to produce it. However, although it is possible with time and effort to become a natural "producer" of this chemical, I believe it is highly bioavailable when taken orally anyway, and would have very instant and useful results for people in this form.

 

With this in mind I would simply love the help of someone in making this chemical, and there is certainly a potential for selling this in the future although that is not why I have interest in this (financial gain is not the goal here really).

 

So yes erm, that's about it, I apologize if this thread is not in the correct place or anything, to be honest I just thought it would be more suited in the Chemistry area because it is still in the early stages of simply creating the chemical at a quality fit for human consumption at an affordable cost

 

Thanks so much everyone, I would very much appreciate any help,

 

Mike, UK

Edited August 28, 2010 by hoppimike

[John Cuthber]

It doesn't seem that hard to make. There's a patent about it

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2010018199&IA=EP2009060450&DISPLAY=DESC

[hoppimike]

Yeah it doesn't look too tricky. Thing is I don't really have the means to make it myself - I don't have access to a lab or anything like that. I guess I was hoping to find someone who wouldn't mind getting a bit involved and putting something together. It really would help a lot of people, and may also have the potential of earning some money as a project at some point, if that's something you are interested in

 

So that's two things really - possible money and also benevolence! I really hope someone comes along who is interested in giving this a go

[dragonstar57]

someone already patented your idea

so how do you think money will be made with this idea?

[JGK]

Having seen this post on another forum, I say again:

 

Others are much further ahead of you in the development of this as a therapeutic agent and you may be entering a patent minefield.

 

company link

Edited August 30, 2010 by JGK

[hoppimike]

Well you see, I am not really pursuing this for financial reasons as I say, it's just to help out me and others

 

 

Erm, the patent issue.. yeah it might present complications if it ever is taken further but to be honest it would just be nice to see it made and tested properly and if it actually has the intended effects! Otherwise patenting laws won't matter so much lol

Edited August 30, 2010 by hoppimike

[hoppimike]

I would be willing to pay by the way

[CaptainPanic]

Well you see, I am not really pursuing this for financial reasons as I say, it's just to help out me and others

 

A quick look at the company website suggests that this is a chemical that acts on hormones in the human body (of females I believe).

 

I suggest you stop immediately to try to make this medicine yourself before you poison someone.

Medicines must be very, very pure, and are normally tested extensively over a period of up to 10 years. You don't know how to make it (other than having a link to the recipe). You probably have no clue about the methods to check the purity. You have limited information about the chemicals needed. The patent may leave out some important steps, or additives (solvents, or ligands of the catalyst, just to name some things that I didn't spot in the 30 seconds I glanced over the patent).

 

Especially if you try to "help" someone you actually know, you should know better than to feed them medicines that are made by a hobbyist.

 

I know that the pharma industry are a right bunch of bastards that take too much money from all of us... but that doesn't mean you should avoid them and make "medicine" yourself.

 

I don't know about the laws in your country, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is quite a severe penalty on attempting to make medicine which is then actually used by others.

Edited August 31, 2010 by CaptainPanic

[hoppimike]

Possibly just a LITTLE strong!

 

Don't worry, if I do this it will be very co-ordinated, done with great care, and used first and foremost on myself! lol

Edited September 11, 2010 by hoppimike

[insane_alien]

you are being an idiot.

 

what steps are you going to take to ensure that

 

1/ you have indeed produce the correct chemical('following the recipie' is NOT an acceptable answer as many many many chemistry students and chef's will tell you)

 

2/ there are no impurites

 

3/ you are not delivering it in a method that will produce toxic products(yep, the way you deliver a medicine can even make it highly toxic if it goes in the wrong way)

 

unless you have a fully equipped analytical chemistry lab at your disposal with about $100,000 worth of equipment, you're not going to get by 1 and 2.

 

and without a couple of years of clinical trials and simulations you're not going to get by 3.

 

and then there are all the legal issues.

 

you will be cheaper and safer getting the drug prescribed by a doctor and then shelling out some money for it.

[CaptainPanic]

Possibly just a LITTLE strong!

 

Don't worry, if I do this it will be very co-ordinated, done with great care, and used first and foremost on myself! lol

If you think that my reponse was a little strong already, you shouldn't have read the 1st version I wrote.

 

I think that insane_alien put it quite right: you're an idiot. Despite warnings from professionals, you choose to continue with your daft plans.

If someone breaks a leg, you can take a stick, some duct tape, and fix that leg yourself. Or, you can go to a hospital at 100 times the cost. Which do you choose? And compare that answer to your plans now.

 

We, on this forum, are not protecting the pharma industry, we're protecting you from your ignorance. But if like to have your 15 minutes of fame as a story on the Darwin Awards, then feel free.

Edited September 13, 2010 by CaptainPanic

[wright496]

I actually don't think this particular thing would be that dangerous to synthesize. I would try to do this the microbiol way. My reasoning is that if this happens in the gut of people anyway, then the byproducts probably aren't that dangerous. Of course caution is still called for, but this is the way I would recommend. From the posted links, it also seems that using microbes is the more researched way to go about this. If you're hard core about this, then I would recommend testing this on some feeder mice from the pet store before you try it out on yourself.

[PBatoon]

@hoppimike

 

Please please please stop what you are doing! Having someone trying to synthesize this poses many dangers. First of all you dont know how pure your product would be (you dont have any proper lab equipment, analytical machines, etc...), you wont know if the product is a racemic mixture, you dont know the amounts you need to take, AND there is also potential of OD'ing and causing permanent damage. I would agree that the best way to go about it would be the microbiological way, but you would still have to cover the cost to create a strain that will produce that product (not to mention the cost of actually getting competent cells and the dna sequence).

[ammonium nitrate]

try using hydrochloric acid to replecat the effects of the stomach

[hypervalent_iodine]

As an organic and medicinal chemist myself, I completely and 100% agree with insane_alien and everyone else here who has tried to tell you to give up on this idea. DO NOT DO THIS! Even if you could manage to acquire the chemicals and set up some sort of backyard apparatus, you have, as was mentioned, no way of determining purity and even whether you got the correct product. This is a extremely idiotic idea to even contemplate. Pharma companies and scientists involved in R&D do not simply make a product and feed it to people/animals (or even any of the other artificial testing set ups) with out first purifying and checking that it is EXACTLY what it should be. You cannot possibly do that without a lab and millions of dollars worth of equipment. I hope that in the few months since the last post here that you haven't pursued this any further. You are putting people's lives at risk if you do.

Edited January 12, 2011 by hypervalent_iodine

[hypervalent_iodine]

try using hydrochloric acid to replecat the effects of the stomach

 

The stomach is the least of your problems! If this is going to be an orally available formulation, you need to try and get the drug into the blood stream via the small intestines - which in itself is a nightmarish task for a lot of compounds due to the plethora of enzymes around, just waiting to chew all manner of things up. Event then, actually trying to promote passive or carrier mediated diffusion (those aren't the only ways, but they're the major ones) without compromising the activity of the drug can be an issue. Once in the blood stream , you have to make sure it doesn't do anything funky in the liver - what with all the P450's about - and try to maximise the time in the body by reducing its propensity towards renal excretion while at the same time making sure it isn't going to be in there too long so as to be toxic. If the drug isn't specifically targeted to the cells it needs to be in, you have to make sure the drug won't be toxic to other living cells in the body (it's in the blood stream remember, it's going to go everywhere short of the brain (hopefully) - unless the brain is your target, in which case you have the issue of getting through the blood brain barrier).

 

What chemists do to mimic these things are assays such as caco-2 cell layer tests, which is a mono layer of homogenous colorectal carcinoma cells used to test how well a drug can diffuse through cells; P450 tests, which is an in vitro test used to see how the drug will be metabolised in the liver, etc. The last one is a VERY important test. P450's are the most abundant type of enzymes in our livers - they metabolise everything. There's no point in having a drug that isn't going to work and may very well be altered into toxic when it gets into the blood, is there?

 

Anyway, so you see my point. If this person wanted to do those sorts of tests, well they couldn't do it unless they were in a lab.