Racism in America

[ydoaPs]

Communication is certainly important as the world gets smaller and the borders are easier to cross. I think the most important lesson to be learned is tolerance. We have got to stop viewing everybody else as doing things the wrong way. It's just their way and if it's an obstacle to you' date=' then go around it. Don't just stand there calling them names.

 

If it makes you feel superior to say someone should learn your language when you don't bother to learn theirs, you've got a problem. We english-only speakers need to remember that multi-linguals have done more work than we have, even if their english isn't perfect. And if someone moves here and hasn't learned the language, they must be doing something right if they are prospering. I never see any non-English speaking [b']bums[/b] in my part of the country.

 

Let's cut everybody some slack here and be more tolerant.

 

 

so you want a country where no one speaks the same language? is it just me or would that lead to WAY more racism? thank you, goodnight

[NavajoEverclear]

i agree a lot with yourdad's posts, except with the language thing. In most other countries, people speak multiple languages. You do got a point about if we all spoke different languages it would create more racism simply because we dont understand each other. And if people are immgrating, it makes more sense that they'd learn our language, than we be required to learn theirs. But our country should be pushed to be more multilangual.

 

Just a note on Mexicans, i love mexicans. I think mexico should be made part of the U.S., which who knows might happen, if they all leave mexico to come here. However i by all means do not want them to adapt to our culture and forget theirs.

[ydoaPs]

1.) i just used mexicans as an example, because they are the only one's i have seen have a problem about deciding they don't want to learn english. i have several friends from mexico, BUT THEY SPEAK ENGLISH.

 

2.) how wouldn't it create more racism? several cliques that don't understand each other.

[Phi for All]

so you want a country where no one speaks the same language? is it just me or would that lead to WAY more racism? thank you, goodnight

If that's what you read in my words, you're just wasting everyone's time here. Your generalizations show your ignorance.

[ydoaPs]

why do you feel that since immigrants don't wanna learn english, we should learn their language? if i moved to russia, should i make them all learn english instead of me learning russian?

[5614]

whilsts people shouldnt be made to learn your language, if you move to a country which speaks a different language to you, then you should learn it, as otherwise you wont be able to communicate. its your choice to move to that country, and learning the language is just one 'side efffect' in a sense.

 

if you live there, you have to be able to talk.... its the 'new to the country' person who has to learnt the language, as it was their choice to move.

[ydoaPs]

that is what i said. but i add if you don't learn the language, you have no business living in that country

[atinymonkey]

that is what i said. but i add if you don't learn the language, you have no business living in that country

 

ROLF.

 

Welcome to England.

[Phi for All]

whilsts people shouldnt be made to learn your language, if you move to a country which speaks a different language to you, then you should learn it, as otherwise you wont be able to communicate.

What if a Spanish-speaking person decides to move to the US or the UK to start a business dealing with other people who might feel more comfortable speaking Spanish? He might never need to learn English himself since he can hire bilinguals if he needs them and still run a profitable business and contribute to society.

 

5614, things would be easier if everyone spoke the same language, I agree. People should learn the language of the place they're living in. But requiring it is not necessary, they shouldn't have to, as long as a person is not a burden to society. If you could tell me that a person who couldn't speak English kept you from being able to do something important like getting a loan or renting an apartment that would be different. You've been talking about people you overheard talking. Were they even talking to you? Does it really put you out that much? Are you so shallow that asking someone to repeat a sentence is such a hardship?

 

In most cases, if someone doesn't speak your language, you're not going to have to deal with them beyond a civil "hello" anyway. Why are you so worried about it? Show a little tolerance.

 

Start making requirements about language and where is it going to stop? Should we start requiring them to wear clothes in colors you approve? Should we ammend the Constitution? Should we make the ugly ones go back home?

[ydoaPs]

ok phi, one time i saw Spanish applications at a restaraunt. is it just me, or would you want your waiter to understand you?

 

one time, i was at the scene of an accident. i was the only first aid qualified person there. the people involved didn't speak english, so i couldn't do anything. luckily, my gf spoke spanish and i talked to them through her.

[jordan]

It seems fair that if there should be some kind of censequence for an immigrant who decided not to learn the native language of the country he/she moved to and as a result a citizen of that country has to use wild hand gestures to comunicate. Tolerance doesn't seem the issue as much as respect on the part of the immigrant. At the risk of sounding rude, it doesn't seem fair that the immagrant can move to the country and use whatever advantage drew him/her and then expect the other citizens to accomidate the fact that the immigrant didn't wish to learn the language. If there are not inconviniences due to language barriers, I don't see any reason the immagrant should be forced to learn the language.

 

Wow, that was hard to phrase while not using specifics. I hope it's not to hard to follow. If it was hard to follow the situation would be rather unintentionaly ironic.

[Phi for All]

In restaurants, pointing to a menu item usually works. I would ask for a new waiter if he still didn't understand me. If none of them understood me, I would go to a different restaurant. There are lots of them.

 

Again, I try to go around obstacles, I don't stand there and rant at them.

 

It would be nice if everyone spoke the same language, but they don't and I can live with that. You sound like you're ready to pass legislation.

 

It seems fair that if there should be some kind of censequence for an immigrant who decided not to learn the native language of the country he/she moved to and as a result a citizen of that country has to use wild hand gestures to comunicate.

There is a consequence already built in. They aren't able to get their point across to as many people. Isn't that enough or do you want jail time? Should we make them wear something so everybody knows to stay away from them? A yellow frowny face or a pink star or something?

[jordan]

Phi, you interpret "consequence" to mean something strict or severe. Maybe a system where X number number of complaints means that the person is required to take some kind of basic language course where they are taught the parts of the language neccesary for basic communications in their field. I don't know exactly.

 

My reasoning is this:

Why do people come to the US (yes, I'm on to specific examples now)? Because the opportunity for work and life are better than in their home country. I want to avoid generalizations, but I would bet it can be agreed this is the most common reason. So, if they are to come here and start work, that is more than comendable. But, if I walk into the restraunt and have to try pointing like a two year old, then try and communicate that we need a new waiter, then get up and leave entirely because the people at the restraunt decided they did not need to learn the language of the country they were living in, I would be frustrated.

 

I have been to France and there is the most noticable difference in dialect I have experienced. We had a tour guide that spoke the language and that helped, but it became a burden not to be able to communicate well. Of course, in that case it is my fault, not theirs. But that is also touring and not immigrating.

[Phi for All]

Phi, you interpret "consequence" to mean something strict or severe. Maybe a system where X number number of complaints means that the person is required to take some kind of basic language course where they are taught the parts of the language neccesary for basic communications in their field. I don't know exactly.

I can't believe this has been such a problem for you that you would want to have a "system" set up to "require" someone to learn english. Do they get deported if they don't learn? I gave you examples of what I would do to overcome this obstacle but in all honesty I can't even imagine a restaurant (that wasn't ethnic by nature) where they would hire a waiter who couldn't communicate with the majority of its clientele. It just doesn't happen. Get real.

 

The problem here is that I'm talking about situations where it's a little difficult to understand someone, or I have to take a little more time to make myself understood, and you guys are all responding as if the person is standing there not understanding a word I'm saying, or that I'm asking for a menu item which is printed in english and just get blank stares from my waiter. When that's the case, people get fired. There is your consequence.

[jordan]

When that's the case, people get fired. There is your consequence.

Fair enough.

 

I just think it's rather rude to come to a country and reap the benifits of it but then show how apreciative to make the longstanding citizens go out of their way to communicate with you because you wont learn the language of the country you are living in. Sure, I could get around it but it's like when an old guy pulls out in front of you on a one-lane road and then drives ten below the speed limit: sure, I can deal with it, but it's still rude.

[Alexa]

1.) no' date=' it isn't

 

Then how should I undestand the last part of your sentence ?

 

"if you move to a country and don't speak the national language, you deserve to be shot."

Maybe this only a figurative expression for you, but unfortunately this is one to be careful about when you have no idea who can read it.

[ydoaPs]

In restaurants' date=' pointing to a menu item usually works. I would ask for a new waiter if he still didn't understand me. If none of them understood me, I would go to a different restaurant. There are lots of them.

 

Again, I try to go [i']around[/i] obstacles, I don't stand there and rant at them.

 

It would be nice if everyone spoke the same language, but they don't and I can live with that. You sound like you're ready to pass legislation.

 

There is a consequence already built in. They aren't able to get their point across to as many people. Isn't that enough or do you want jail time? Should we make them wear something so everybody knows to stay away from them? A yellow frowny face or a pink star or something?

 

it sounds like you just like to get pushed around. why should you put up with having to move to a new restaurant when the waiter doesn't speak english. yes, if i was in congress, i would put forth a bill to make immagrants have at least a conversational level of english.

 

1.) no' date=' it isn't

 

Then how should I undestand the last part of your sentence ?

 

"if you move to a country and don't speak the national language, you deserve to be shot."

 

Maybe this only a figurative expression for you, but unfortunately this is one to be careful about when you have no idea who can read it.[/quote']

 

that has nothing to do with race, it has to do with respect.

[Alexa]

that has nothing to do with race, it has to do with respect.

I cannot see any kind of respect when I see a death threat.

[ydoaPs]

if you don't respect the citizens enough to learn their language, you do not to live in their country. it is that simple.

[Alexa]

if you don't respect the citizens enough to learn their language, you do not to live in their country. it is that simple.

I agree an imigrant should learn the official language of the country.

 

I put in question only the part of shooting somebody because of a linguistic barrier. That's a radical mesure, if you didn't mean to use it in a figurative expression.

[ydoaPs]

it was figurative, but they should be deported. to many aliens anyway.

[Phi for All]

Sure, I could get around it but it's like when an old guy pulls out in front of you on a one-lane road and then drives ten below the speed limit: sure, I can deal with it, but it's still rude.

A big part of tolerance is recognizing our own tendencies to judge people as a set of attributes rather than looking at their actions in context to the situation. If you were the person who rudely pulled out in front of someone because you had just lost your grandfather and weren't thinking straight (grandpa pulled out in front of someone on a one-lane road and didn't drive fast enough, so another driver shot him), you would probably hope people would cut you a little slack.

 

Unless I know for a fact that the person who doesn't speak english very well has been here for years, has had many opportunities to learn the language and simply refuses to learn even the basics, I try to practice a little tolerance.

[jordan]

If you were the person who rudely pulled out in front of someone because you had just lost your grandfather and weren't thinking straight (grandpa pulled out in front of someone on a one-lane road and didn't drive fast enough, so another driver shot him), you would probably hope people would cut you a little slack.

I think that's going a little far. I clearly stated I would tolerate the person (not shoot them) but that it would still be rude.

 

Unless I know for a fact that the person who doesn't speak english very well has been here for years, has had many opportunities to learn the language and simply refuses to learn even the basics, I try to practice a little tolerance.

Years? That seems rather long. If you can't learn a few basic phrases in the time before you get here and a few months after you arrive then you're not trying. After a few years, if someone still has to point to communicate you have not put forth an effort that would make anyone want to be understanding. Now, I realize that they move here and need to find work right away to support their family, but many students who wish to learn a foreign language can go to a country where it is spoken and come back more or less fluent in a few months. How long do imigrants deserve to learn the words and phrases associated with their job, keeping in mind these perticular words and phrases would be used more frequently than most because they are used over and over each day?

[Phi for All]

I think that's going a little far. I clearly stated I would tolerate the person (not shoot them) but that it would still be rude.

I apologize. Shooting them was mentioned, but not by you.

 

 

Years? That seems rather long. If you can't learn a few basic phrases in the time before you get here and a few months after you arrive then you're not trying. After a few years, if someone still has to point to communicate you have not put forth an effort that would make anyone want to be understanding.

Again, you're arguing a worst case scenario without giving me actual examples of how someone offended you in this way. You're saying, "if this were to happen in this way, it would be rude and intolerable." You are right. Has it happened to you in this way?

Now' date=' I realize that they move here and need to find work right away to support their family, but many students who wish to learn a foreign language can go to a country where it is spoken and come back more or less fluent in a few months.[/quote']I'm sure many can. Many cannot for many reasons. How will your "system" be able to judge communication competency?

How long do imigrants deserve to learn the words and phrases associated with their job' date=' keeping in mind these perticular words and phrases would be used more frequently than most because they are used over and over each day?[/quote']Again, I think the present structure takes care of itself. Employers who receive constant complaints about imcompetance based on miscommunication regarding the same employee are free to fire him or her, especially if it affects their business. I don't think another "system" is warranted.

[ydoaPs]

A big part of tolerance is recognizing our own tendencies to judge people as a set of attributes rather than looking at their actions in context to the situation.

 

your example was all about context. how can u use it and say it isn't about context?