juantonwan Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 I was looking to create a list of hypotheses for the existence of everything. It would be helpful to just stick to the list, instead of giving comments or telling which one you subscribe to. 1. Unguided self-creation (something from nothing, quantum mechanics, space fabric, big bang etc etc etc.) 2. Infinite space, time, matter 3. Guided creation (i.e. god or a deity) 4. 5. etc. These are really the only three I can come up with 1
lemur Posted September 15, 2010 Posted September 15, 2010 what about persistent multiplication and differentiation of forms ad infinitum?
juantonwan Posted September 15, 2010 Author Posted September 15, 2010 what about persistent multiplication and differentiation of forms ad infinitum? I guess that is clever, but that would fall under #2 and/or #1.
lemur Posted September 15, 2010 Posted September 15, 2010 I guess that is clever, but that would fall under #2 and/or #1. Wouldn't #1, 2, & 3 fall under multiplication and differentiation of forms? Especially once you start dealing with the role of perception in differentiation between things like whether the form is artificial, natural, or an artificial interpolation of something natural, like a constellation of stars, for example. Stars come into being and attain certain positions relative to each other naturally, but it takes subjective interpolation to conceive of them as a pattern of interrelated points. The same is true of differentiating a waterfall from the rest of the river, etc. Why wouldn't the same be true for differentiating time from space, matter, and energy? The question is what use it is to have a theory of everything? Certainly you could analyze everything in terms of multiplication and differentiation, but what purpose would it have to do so?
Syntho-sis Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 You can speculate all day but I doubt you will end much further from where you began. We (collectively humans, specifically scientists) just haven't gathered enough data to come to an accurate conclusion imo. It's definitely worth going insane over, if anything is.
michel123456 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Impossibility of non-existence. Does that count?
Marat Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 In any possible universe in which this question can be formulated, there must exist something. This is another version of the anthropic argument. 1
Mrs Zeta Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I was looking to create a list of hypotheses for the existence of everything. It would be helpful to just stick to the list, instead of giving comments or telling which one you subscribe to. 1. Unguided self-creation (something from nothing, quantum mechanics, space fabric, big bang etc etc etc.) 2. Infinite space, time, matter 3. Guided creation (i.e. god or a deity) These are really the only three I can come up with #2 could come under #1 (or #3). In that case there are only two scenarios: either 'God' made everything, or everything happened without a creator. So, according to logic, there could not be any more items on your list. I will take my hat off to whoever suggests another hypothesis. 1
michel123456 Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 #2 could come under #1 (or #3). In that case there are only two scenarios: either 'God' made everything, or everything happened without a creator. So, according to logic, there could not be any more items on your list. I will take my hat off to whoever suggests another hypothesis. I suppose #2 was ment to say "no creation". Under this premise, the Universe always existed and will exist forever, it was never created.
Doc. Josh Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 How about we are nothing but somones imagination, simply dreams, not even that we really exist. Or we are micro bacteria, living inside a really big organism.....
Mrs Zeta Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I suppose #2 was ment to say "no creation". Under this premise, the Universe always existed and will exist forever, it was never created. Someone/something must have created the universe for the first time. As a rational being I cannot comprehend how something exists without being created in the first place. Convince me! How about we are nothing but somones imagination, simply dreams, not even that we really exist. Or we are micro bacteria, living inside a really big organism..... Someone/something must have created that entity or that big organism. So IMO,we are still down to 2 hypotheses...
Doc. Josh Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Quite true, This a puzzle that will possibly never be answered.
michel123456 Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Convince me! I first have to convince myself... The laws of conservation forbid creation from nothing, that is a very good clue. Experimentally, true creation has never been observed: what we use to call erroneously "creation" is always a transformation. IOW, what we are currently looking for is something that contradicts both Theory and observation.
Mrs Zeta Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 The laws of conservation forbid creation from nothing. Only that the Universe was created out of nothing. “Random fluctuations have produced a material Universe out of true Nothingness”. Who said that? I forget.
michel123456 Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Only that the Universe was created out of nothing. That is what our human logic says. It is based upon our experience of birth and death. It may happen that the universe, unlike living being, was not born and will not die. “Random fluctuations have produced a material Universe out of true Nothingness”. Who said that? I forget. It is not a conclusion from a Theory nor from observation. It is efseveis pothoi. You know what it means.
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