Depression

[YT2095]

I agree to certain point, and yes I`m sure it sounds a bit harsh, but those are the sorts of things I had to tell myself to get over it.

Realising that no-one could nor would help me, other than myself! I had to do it. and after all why SHOULD have to help me with depression, it`s not like they Owe me anything. And after realising that, and that it was all down to me ultimately. I did something about it.

 

with regards to Seasonal Effective Disorder, sure I get that and so do quite a few folks I know, but that`s a biological thing and nothing to really worry about anymore than getting tired at the end of the day in my opinion. apparently a few hours a week on a sunbed is suposed to work in many cases too.

 

but I`ve found with things like depresion, getting MAD at it rather than let it eat you alive is a very workable method

[Glider]

As I say, telling yourself those kinds of things is one thing; a personal decision to attempt to regain some control. Being told those things by other people whilst you are in the middle of complete hopelessness is less than useful.

 

Why should anyone have to help you with depression? Why should a doctor help you when you're sick? Why should a firefighter pull you out of a car wreck? Why should the police intervene if they see you getting mugged? None of these people owe you anything. What's the alternative? Sit on your hands and watch people go to hell?

 

Seasonal Affective Disorder is "...nothing to really worry about any more than getting tired at the the end of the day..."?. Oh. Well, that's ok then.

 

Getting mad at depression might work for you, but people who are severely depressed don't get mad. They no longer care about anything enough to get mad.

[matter]

I disagree with people being called mentaly handicapped if they're bi-polar. It makes them sound retarded, or like theres something wrong with them, when there isn't. It's not a mental handicap its just an imbalance. A mental handicap would be not having any frontal lobe.

[Glider]

1) People with bi-polar disorders aren't called mentally handicapped.

 

2) Why would not having a frontal lobe classify as a mental handicap?

[Giles]

YT2095 said in post #51 :

I agree to certain point, and yes I`m sure it sounds a bit harsh, but those are the sorts of things I had to tell myself to get over it.

This sort of thing is insensitive and potentially offensive. Such a total lack of understanding can lead to inappropriate treatment of sufferers, and that will only make things much worse.

 

Had you actually been properly diagnosed with depression, or were you just having a prolonged sulk?

[YT2095]

ROFLOL, go figure

 

I never claimed NOT to be Cynical about it all, having been through "the mill" I sure as have a right to be also!, Giles ya know sod all about me so chill!

fact is a good many just need a damn good "wake up call"

how many times have you heard of a chronic alcoholic that got sick and tired of waking up sick and tired?

then made a resolve to never drink again and DIDN`T drink again! sad fact is, mankind tries to control everything else in his life and can`t... and the only thing he has total control over (his mindset) is the only thing he CHOOSES not to!

 

work it out before you say I`m totaly wrong!

[JaKiri]

Someone's a bit sensitive.

[neurogenesis]

very good point! it feels good sometimes to help others and forget about yourself for a min.

[neurogenesis]

Glider said in post #52 :

As I say, telling yourself those kinds of things is one thing; a personal decision to attempt to regain some control. Being told those things by other people whilst you are in the middle of complete hopelessness is less than useful.

 

Why should anyone have to help you with depression? Why should a doctor help you when you're sick? Why should a firefighter pull you out of a car wreck? Why should the police intervene if they see you getting mugged? None of these people owe you anything. What's the alternative? Sit on your hands and watch people go to hell?

 

Seasonal Affective Disorder is "...nothing to really worry about any more than getting tired at the the end of the day..."?. Oh. Well, that's ok then.

 

Getting mad at depression might work for you, but people who are severely depressed don't get mad. They no longer care about anything enough to get mad.

 

 

i had meant to reply to this quote

[Glider]

YT2095 said in post #56 :

fact is a good many just need a damn good "wake up call"

Is that a 'fact'? Cite your source.

 

how many times have you heard of a chronic alcoholic that got sick and tired of waking up sick and tired?

then made a resolve to never drink again and DIDN`T drink again!

Not many. Do you think a damn good talking to in the "pull yourself together, you lazy (usually rich) malingering waster" vein might help?

 

sad fact is, mankind tries to control everything else in his life and can`t... and the only thing he has total control over (his mindset) is the only thing he CHOOSES not to!

You do like the word 'fact' don't you? Can you provide any evidence in support of these 'facts'? I can provide substantial evidence to show that people have a lot less control over their daily 'mindsets' than the 'total control' you state as 'fact', and therefore that 'choice', to a large extent, doesn't enter into it.

[YT2095]

wow, many seem to have REALLY lost the point and msg in my posts, I`m quite astounded actualy.

 

re: the alcoholic; no one mentioned what you did other than you? my point was the best resolves ever made and kept were those borne of personal choice.

 

And yes we DO have total control of our mindsets, by default it wouldn`t be a "mindset" else

 

if you want substanciation(sp), look at any one of Anthony Robins books. esp the part(s) about NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programing).

 

do you REALLY think we`re as helpless as some (and also you to a point) try to make out? is there no such thing as personal responsibilty anymore?

 

sorry if I sound cynical, even critical at times with regards to this, and if it offends some folks, well that`s NOT my intentention at all, maybe even worth trying to evaluate WHAT part offends and WHY!?

 

and I DID say from the outset, that I`m rellating my own PERSONAL experience. as for facts, yes 100% as ANY Scientist sees the evidence of his own eyes repeatedly, as have I with this area. ok sure I`ve lost a few aquantainces through suicides, and had a few that were close or attempted, the one`s still alive are all of the same opinion as myself, depression is a "wake up call" like a sneeze or cough is for a Cold or maybe Flu.

on the flip side, there ARE a good many mallingering wasters out there that do just for the attn too! how you could deny that is beyond me?

 

Physiological illness that results in depression, I have no experience with, but then I wasn`t addressing that either.

I sincerely hope that clears things up, at least a little bit maybe?

[matter]

I dunno, the frontal lobe thing was just my opinion. Seems if you're missing a physical piece of your body you're handicapped. I was just exaggerating.

[YT2095]

Matter yeah, I agree, Iv`e considered it as such also. physicaly incomplete equals handicapped to me too (though on occasion it`s better to be without a malfunctioning component that with it and make yourself MORE handicapped)

 

and yes Giles I was Diagnosed, they don`t give drugs and hospitalisation away for no reason

[Sayonara]

I think a lot of people who have lost limbs, eyes etc would very strongly disagree with you actually.

 

You know, like they've been campaigning about for years.

[YT2095]

sayonara, True, but it`s still the old steroetype of the word and it`s associations.

I`m reg`d dissabled myself as is my wife, never considered myself handicapped (have all my body parts still). but I do understand Matters point though, it IS just a stereotype, but kinda hard to shake off in a way.

[Sayonara]

Matter didn't say "considering someone to be handicapped if part of their body is missing is a stereotype", he said "Seems if you're missing a physical piece of your body you're handicapped".

[YT2095]

I assume he meant the stereotype point of veiw, I dont know, he`s not here and I can`t speak for him (nor would I) but I tend to give the bennefit of the doubt where possible, and so until he says otherwise, I`ll stay with that veiw of his meaning. and it IS a stereotype that we were all brought up with back in the days when being PC was never an issue

[Sayonara]

What are you talking about?

 

Other than backing up my point that people with bits missing don't like to be called "handicapped", which I made in response to your

physicaly incomplete equals handicapped to me too

statement.

[YT2095]

I`m on about common missnommers

 

things like the "spastic sosciety" was then renamed "mencap" and now it`s called something different again (the current name evades me at the mo).

 

So yeah, "old school" a handicapped person not only encompassed physical parts missing, but a whole plethora of other physical malfunctions.

[Sayonara]

bang*bang*bang*bang*bang*bang*bang

[YT2095]

ya missed

 

and don`t this belong in the airsoft sports section?

[aman]

Besides me with great intelligence, good looks, and wisdom, I know of five other people in the world who are normal. Everybody else is handicapped.

Just aman

[Giles]

YT2095 said in post #56 :

ROFLOL, go figure

...

work it out before you say I`m totaly wrong!

Let's deal with some points.

 

(i) I don't see what what I know about you has to do with it. I know enough about this issue to know you are wrong, and I will not "cool it" over a (morally) important subject.

 

(ii) Your claim about chronic alcoholism is daft, as others have said; however, even it were grounded in fact it would be irrelevant. Alcoholism, while involving physiological symptoms, has behaviour as a cause and so a modification of behaviour can cure the alcoholism (obviously this is complex and difficult to achieve). However depression is physiological such that a mere change in attitude cannot cure it. Recovery may occur in time, and antidepressants can help with it, but that's all. Obviously a change in attitude can help to cope. Mood depression is a symptom, not a cause. I can go into more detail on physiological action of depression and anti-depressants if you want.

 

(iii) "Total control" over mindset is a rather simplistic view that neither philosophers, psychologists, psychiatrists, nor neuroscientists accept. I don't know why you think it is the case.

[Glider]

YT2095 said in post #61 :

wow, many seem to have REALLY lost the point and msg in my posts, I`m quite astounded actualy.

 

re: the alcoholic; no one mentioned what you did other than you?

Whut?

 

my point was the best resolves ever made and kept were those borne of personal choice.

 

And yes we DO have total control of our mindsets, by default it wouldn`t be a "mindset" else

No we don't. We have control of the end product (behaviour), but our state of mind is driven by many factors, a substantial number of which are out of our control. As our behaviour is driven to a large extent by our state of mind at any given time, it is fair to assume that our behaviour is influenced to a degree by factors outside of our control (and even outside our awareness).

 

if you want substanciation(sp), look at any one of Anthony Robins books. esp the part(s) about NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programing).

Why? He is a computer scientist speciallizing in neural nets and artificial intelligence, with a basis in linguistics. If I want infomation on affective processing and preattentive functions, I look at the work of people involved in that research. For example:

 

Abramson, L. Y., Garber, J., & Seligman, M. E. P. (1980). Learned helplessness in humans: An attributional analysis. In J. Garber & M. E. P. Seligman (Eds.), Human helplessness: Theory and applications (pp. 3-34). New York: Academic Press.

 

Banaji, M., R., Blair, I. V., & Glaser, J. (1997). The automaticity of everyday life. In R. S. J. Wyer (Ed.), The automaticity of everyday life: Advances in social cognition (Vol. 10, pp. 63-74). Mahwah, New Jersy: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc.

 

Bargh, J. A. (1988). Automatic information processing: Implications for communication and affect. In L. Donohew & H. E. Sypher & e. al. (Eds.), Communication, social cognition, and affect. Communication (pp. 9-32). Hillsdale: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.

 

Bargh, J. A. (1989). Conditional automaticity: Varieties of automatic influence in social perception and cognition. In J. S. Uleman (Ed.), Unintended thought (pp. 3-51). New York: The Guilford Press.

 

Bargh, J. A. (1990). Auto-motives: Preconscious determinants of social interaction. In E. T. Higgins & R. M. Sorrentino (Eds.), Handbook of motivation and cognition: Foundations of social behavior (Vol. 2, pp. 93-130). New York: The Guilford Press.

 

Bargh, J. A. (1997). The automaticity of everyday life. In R. S. J. Wyer (Ed.), The automaticity of everyday life: Advances in social cognition (Vol. 10, pp. 1-61). Mahwah, New Jersy: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc.

 

Bargh, J. A., Chaiken, S., Govender, R., & Pratto, F. (1992). The generality of the automatic attitude activation effect. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 62 (6), 893-912.

 

Bargh, J. A., Chaiken, S., Raymond, P., & Hymes, P. (1996). The automatic evaluation effect: Unconditional automatic attitude activation with a pronunciation task. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 32, 104-128.

 

Bargh, J. A., & Chartrand, T. L. (1999). The unbearable automaticity of being. American Psychologist, 54 (7), 462-479.

 

Bargh, J. A., Chen, M., & Burrows, L. (1996). Automaticity of social behavior: Direct effects of trait construct and stereotype activation on action. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 71 (2), 230-244.

 

Bargh, J. A., & Ferguson, M. J. (2000). Beyond behaviorism: On the automaticity of higher mental processes. Psychological Bulletin, 126 (6), 925-945.

 

Bargh, J. A., & Gollwitzer, P. M. (1994). Environmental control of goal-directed action: Automatic and strategic contingencies between situations and behavior. In W. D. Spaulding (Ed.), Integrative views of motivation, cognition, and emotion. Nebraska symposium on motivation (Vol. 41, pp. 71-124). Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press.

 

Bargh, J. A., & Pietromonaco, P. (1982). Automatic information processing and social perception: The influence of trait information presented outside of conscious awareness on impression formation. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 43 (3), 437-449.

 

Baumeister, R. F., & Sommer, K. L. (1997). Consciousness, free choice, and automaticity. In R. S. J. Wyer (Ed.), The automaticity of everyday life: Advances in social cognition (Vol. 10, pp. 75-81). Mahwah, New Jersy: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc.

 

Bernat, E., Bunce, S., & Shevrin, H. (2001). Event-related brain potentials differentiate positive and negative mood adjectives during both supraliminal and subliminal visual processing. International Journal of Psychophysiology, 42 (1), 11-34.

 

Cacioppo, J. T., Berntson, G. G., Sheridan, J. F., & McClintock, M. K. (2000). Multilevel integrative analyses of human behavior: Social neuroscience and the complementing nature of social and biological approaches. Psychological Bulletin, 126 (6), 829-843.

 

Cardinal, R. N., Parkinson, J. A., Hall, J., & Everitt, B. J. (2002). Emotion and motivation: the role of the amygdala, ventral striatum, and prefrontal cortex. Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews, 26, 321-352.

 

Chartrand, T. L., & Bargh, J. A. (1999). The chameleon effect: The perception-behavior link and social interaction. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 76 (6), 893-910.

 

Chen, M., & Bargh, J. A. (1997). Nonconscious Behavioral Confirmation Processes: The Self-Fulfilling consequences of Automatic Stereotype Activation. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 33 (5), 541-560.

 

Chen, M., & Bargh, J. A. (1999). Consequences of automatic evaluation: Immediate behavioral predispositions to approach or avoid the stimulus. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 25 (2), 215-224.

 

Clore, G. (1997). Minding our emotions: On the role of automatic, unconscious affect. In R. S. J. Wyer (Ed.), The automaticity of everyday life: Advances in social cognition (Vol. 10, pp. 105-120). Mahwah, New Jersy: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc.

 

Cytowic, R. E. (1993). Essays on the primacy of emotion, The Man who Tasted Shapes (pp. 186-230). USA: G. P. Putnam's Sons.

 

Davidson, R. J., & Irwin, W. (1999). The functional neuroanatomy of emotion and affective style. Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 3 (1), 11-21.

 

Davidson, R. J., Jackson, D. C., & Kalin, N. H. (2000). Emotion, plasticity, context, and regulation: Perspectives from affective neuroscience. Psychological Bulletin, 126 (6), 890-909.

 

Dijksterhuis, A., Aarts, H., Bargh, J. A., & van Knippenberg, A. (2000). On the relation between associative strength and automatic behavior. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 36 (5), 531-544.

 

Dijksterhuis, A., Bargh, J. A., & Miedema, J. (2000). Of men and mackerels: Attention, subjective experience, and automatic social behavior. In H. Bless & J. P. Forgas (Eds.), The message within: The role of subjective experience in social cognition and behavior (pp. 37-51). Philadelphia: Psychology Press/Taylor & Francis.

 

And so-on, all the way to Z, with:

 

Zajonc, R. B. (1980). Feeling and Thinking: Preferences Need no Inferences. American Psychologist, 35, 151-111.

 

Zajonc, R. B. (1984). On the primacy of affect. American Psychologist, 39 (2), 117-123.

 

do you REALLY think we`re as helpless as some (and also you to a point) try to make out? is there no such thing as personal responsibilty anymore?

 

sorry if I sound cynical, even critical at times with regards to this, and if it offends some folks, well that`s NOT my intentention at all, maybe even worth trying to evaluate WHAT part offends and WHY!?

No, I don't think, nor did I ever state, that we are helpless. What I do state is that we are not as much in control of our own drives and emotions (and as a consequence, behaviour) as we like to think we are. This has nothing to do with responsibility or accountability. We always have the ability to check our initial impulses and modify our behaviour.

 

The offence comes partly from your blase dismissal of an extremely serious condition, and in particular those who suffer from it, and partly from your casually flawed exposition upon a subject about which, it is apparent, you know little.

 

and I DID say from the outset, that I`m rellating my own PERSONAL experience.

And you should know know that you cannot present as 'fact' any conclusions you base upon it.

 

as for facts, yes 100% as ANY Scientist sees the evidence of his own eyes repeatedly, as have I with this area. ok sure I`ve lost a few aquantainces through suicides, and had a few that were close or attempted, the one`s still alive are all of the same opinion as myself, depression is a "wake up call" like a sneeze or cough is for a Cold or maybe Flu.

I don't care how many of your aquaintences agree with you, it does not establish fact. Opinion ^10 is still just opinion.

 

Your statement that "The ones still alive are all of the same opinion as myself..." dismisses completely the ones who are now dead due to this so-called 'wake up call'. You don't consider that serious?

 

on the flip side, there ARE a good many mallingering wasters out there that do just for the attn too! how you could deny that is beyond me?

I have never denied there are malingerers. I don't doubt that there are. I just don't assume a person is a maligerer because they are suffering from depression.

 

Physiological illness that results in depression, I have no experience with, but then I wasn`t addressing that either.

I sincerely hope that clears things up, at least a little bit maybe?

In no way does it even begin to clear things up.

 

What do you mean "Physiological illness that results in depression". Depression is a condition in itself, though it has many aetiological factors, both biological and environmental. Are you suggesting that depression is not real unless it results from, or is associated with a physical pathology?

[Sayonara]

YT2095 said in post #71 :

ya missed

 

and don`t this belong in the airsoft sports section?

Actually that was the sound of my head repeatedly acquainting itself with a brick wall.