Depression

[Piccolo]

SEAN doesent give a [edit]

[PogoC7]

Saddam is like a caveman. I have a word work people like him. I call them "Yaties" becuase all they do is ignore what they don't want to hear.[/b]

Those Damn Yaties. KILL THEM ALL

[fafalone]

language please...

[PogoC7]

Sorry, I like the use the words as humor, but if I offend. *@&*

[PogoC7]

It's funny. I just signed up and I saw Adam get suspened. He seems angry. He opens a depression thread (as a cry for help) and then gets in a fight with the Hater, leading to his suspencion.

Good Drama!

[Piccolo]

I think we should all just hope Adam got what he needed from the Thread before he got suspended. I just hope its not tool ate.

[fafalone]

He'll be back in a week, and he can still view everything.

[aman]

I think grief is different from depression. Maybe levels of grief are natural but depression could be unnatural. There are some people who are constantly in an upbeat state from waking to sleep, like me, except when I'm grumpy cus I'm old.

A person can't avoid grief but should be able to avoid depression by maintaining a healthy mind.

Just aman

[Piccolo]

True its good to maintain a healthy mind it helps. But some people cant do that because they have a chemical imbalance.

[PogoC7]

WELCOME BACK ADAM

[Glider]

Originally posted by aman

I think grief is different from depression. Maybe levels of grief are natural but depression could be unnatural.

 

You are quite right. There are (broadly speaking) 2 types of depression: Reactive depression, which is the normal response to an environmental event, such as the death of a loved one, losing your job, house, partner, whatever. Reactive depression is quite normal and usually acute (fast onset - short duration).

 

Then there are mood disorders. These are clinical conditions (often of uncertain aetilology) such as depressive disorders and bi-polar disorders.

 

As such (in light of the original question) we might just as well ask "what is the purpose of diabetes?". There is no 'purpose'. It happens, and it is bad.

[Piccolo]

For anyone who might ask what is the purpose ofthis or that meaning dseases, they are simply mutations, in other words something went wrong.

[Guest Meninger]

The purpose of depression. Hmmmmmmm. The question of depression being a defense mechanism probably has not been researched too much. Depression is certainly not "adequate" in the sense that it is associated with a change in equilibrium for the worse.

 

Depression, specifically has been associated with hopelessness. Depression can also result from learned helplessness in relation to hopelessness. When the individual has decided to "stop trying" in whatever task, he or she becomes vulnerable to learned helplessness and thus depression.

 

Whether depression is an optimal solution in regard to the individual's inherent capabilities and condition has not been discovered (at least to my knowledge).

 

There may be somewhat of a "purpose" in being depressed. For example, think of an individual who is depressed due to lack of self-esteem or excessive anxiety. Anxiety is correlated with a negative affect, however depression is correlated with both a negative affect and lack of positive affect. Thus the individual that is depressed, in some sense, experiences less anxiety due to the depression.

 

Sometimes, depression is a forced result, as ridiculous as it may seem. An individual, for one reason or another may actually "want" to be depressed. The individual might have identified himself or herself with depression and thus it may have become a part of his/her source of confidence in relation to self-actualization.

 

Mild depression, being in a somewhat reflective and relaxed state is healthy in some sense. We face situations in which it is easy for us to become depressed, for example in losing a basketball game. If you think about it, one of the main elements in being depressed is "reassessment." That is the individual begins to engage in an assessment of one's life in a "reflective" state. This is somewhat of a positive function. However, when one becomes too depressed, this reflective state becomes chronic and thus "no good."

 

I am sure that there are many other "reasons" for being depressed. However, these are the ones that I can think of for now.

[Glider]

Originally posted by Meninger

The purpose of depression. Hmmmmmmm. The question of depression being a defense mechanism probably has not been researched too much. Depression is certainly not "adequate" in the sense that it is associated with a change in equilibrium for the worse.

I think you are probably right. I think depression is unlikely to be a defence mechanism as it is maladaptive (results in maladaptive behaviours and impaired coping abilities) and in the long-term causes more harm than it would defend against.

 

Depression, specifically has been associated with hopelessness. Depression can also result from learned helplessness in relation to hopelessness. When the individual has decided to "stop trying" in whatever task, he or she becomes vulnerable to learned helplessness and thus depression.

The 'decision' to stop trying is the result of learned helplessness. Seligman (1967) and Overmier (1967) developed the idea of learned helplessness in studies using dogs. As you might expect, if you put a dog in a stall and apply an electric shock to the dog, it will jump out of the stall to escape the shock. Seligman showed that if you prevent the dog from escaping (e.g. by placing a restraint over the stall), eventually the dog will enter a stoic, helpless state and will give up trying to escape the shock. This persists even after the restraint is removed. In principle this applies to humans who, after repeated failed attempts to improve their circumstances or alleviate a negative state, will eventually give up.

 

Whether depression is an optimal solution in regard to the individual's inherent capabilities and condition has not been discovered (at least to my knowledge).

Depression can't really be considered an optimal solution, not least because it doesn't actually solve anything. In fact, as far as the individual is concerned, it causes more problems by reducing that person's ability to cope with normal, every-day events. Small things that everybody else takes for granted; paying bills, family demands, work demands etc., become percieved as insurmountable problems.

 

There may be somewhat of a "purpose" in being depressed. For example, think of an individual who is depressed due to lack of self-esteem or excessive anxiety. Anxiety is correlated with a negative affect, however depression is correlated with both a negative affect and lack of positive affect. Thus the individual that is depressed, in some sense, experiences less anxiety due to the depression.

Not quite. Anxiety itself is a negative affect, and depression is associated with increased levels of anxiety. As I said above, small daily problems that a person would normally just deal with are percieved as 'overwhelming' and threatening to depressed individuals due to their reduced ability to cope, and so result in increased anxiety.

 

Sometimes, depression is a forced result, as ridiculous as it may seem. An individual, for one reason or another may actually "want" to be depressed. The individual might have identified himself or herself with depression and thus it may have become a part of his/her source of confidence in relation to self-actualization.

This is true to a degree. After a time, negative cognitions and reinforcing behaviours can become entrenched. At this point, whilst the individual does not actually want to be depressed, they will often resist change. Again, due to the significant impaiment of coping skills, the processes (and effort) required to induce positive change are often seen as overwhelming and (thus) threatening, which is a result in part of learned helplessness (cf Seligman; Overmier).

 

Mild depression, being in a somewhat reflective and relaxed state is healthy in some sense. We face situations in which it is easy for us to become depressed, for example in losing a basketball game. If you think about it, one of the main elements in being depressed is "reassessment." That is the individual begins to engage in an assessment of one's life in a "reflective" state. This is somewhat of a positive function. However, when one becomes too depressed, this reflective state becomes chronic and thus "no good."

Introspective/melancholic states are normal, but on their own do not really equate to depression (see DSM-IV). In the same way, whilst one may expect a person to become depressed at (e.g.) the death of a relative or spouse (normal reactive depression), one would not expect this degree of depression as a result of losing a basketball game. What is more likely here is (acute) disapointment/frustration.

 

I am sure that there are many other "reasons" for being depressed. However, these are the ones that I can think of for now.

There are many proposed aetiological factors in depression (bilogical and psychological), and there are many types of depression. Whilst these factors may lead (or contribute) to depression, they can't really be said to be a 'reason' for depression (i.e. as a rationale). An external event (e.g. the death of a relative) may be a 'reason' for depression, but this does not count as a depressive episode, because it reflects the 'normal' grieving process, and not a psychiatric disorder.

 

 

References:

 

Seligman, M.E.P., & Maier, S.F. (1967). Failure to escape traumatic shock. Journal of Experimental Psychology, 74, 1-9.

 

Overmier, J.B. & Seligman, M.E.P. (1967). Effects of inescapable shock upon subsequent escape and avoidance responding. Journal of Comparative and Physiological Psychology. 63, 28-33.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Glider

 

Re: Dog experiment

 

 

is that just a manifestation of the simpler experiemnt that can be performed by poking a slug/snail in the eye until it just gives up trying to retract its eye?

[Glider]

I suppose in principle it could be seen that way, yes.

 

Strictly speaking though, poking snails in the eye (although a fascinating hobby) works on a different and simpler principle; habituation.

 

This is usually demonstrated on aplesia (sea slugs). If you touch the gill of an aplesia, it will retract it. If you continue to poke it, eventually it will cease to retract it; the neuronal circuit associated with the withdrawal reflex becomes habituated. As aplesia has no brain to speak of, this is just a neurological function (non-associative learning).

 

Learned helplessness on the other hand, requires a degree of cognitive and emotional processing in order to lay down the association between any and all attempts to alter or improve your situation and abject failure (associative learning).

 

If you stop poking the gill of aplesia for a while, the withdrawal reflex will reestablish. However, in cases of learned helplessness, the dog never tries to escape the shock on repeated trials, even if you lift it out of the stall between shocks to show it that it is free to escape.

 

Have you ever seen film of the freeing of the death camp inmates by allied troops at the end of WWII? Did you ever notice how, even when the allied troops entered the camps, threw open the gates and offered food and water, some of the inmates just stood there? They didn't move or try to get out or reach for the food or water or in any way attempt to improve their immediate condition. Due to their experiences, they had learned helplessness; that nothing they did would change anything therefore doing anything was futile.

[Guest Meninger]

Gilder,

 

What I meant by an "optimal" solution is in regard to the person's inherent capabilities.

 

"Not quite. Anxiety itself is a negative affect, and depression is associated with increased levels of anxiety. As I said above, small daily problems that a person would normally just deal with are percieved as 'overwhelming' and threatening to depressed individuals due to their reduced ability to cope, and so result in increased anxiety."

 

Has this been verified? That the majority of the depressed individuals experience more anxiety? It seems that the attitude of most individuals that are chronically depressed (at least the melancholic subtype) is that of non-chalance; and this I believe is somewhat of a coping mechanism (althought not healthy overall) in the sense that scope of the individual's worries is somewhat reduced temporarily, however not in long terms.

 

The point I was trying to make was that the individual would be more anxious without the depression. Thus depression serves as somewhat of a one-dimensional coping mechanism, a small sense of self-efficacy. My main point was to propose a "subtle" purpose/benefit of being depressed in response to Adam's question. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying depression is "beneficial' in the overall sense, it is clearly a condition of detriment. I just don't think that depression is a state in which the body and mind have completely failed.

[neurogenesis]

Piccolo said in post #9 :

Ok Im a psyc major. I will like to begin by letting you know teir are different types of depressions.

 

Firts off it is possible their is a depression gene but it isnt known yet for sure; next you can become depressed by the use of drugs that mess with your seratonin and melatonin. For instance everytime lets say you do extacy not saying you do, you loose more melatonin permanently meaning you are more depressed permanently.

 

Eventhough the Brain gives off more melatonin in the mornin(for you to wake up) and more seratoning at night (so you go to bed) it doesent mean the brain is making more seratonin or more melatonin it just means its using what it has when it needs it.if you take the melatonin away completely you would commit suicide

 

That right there is the basics. If you want to know about specific depressive dissorders, then I suggest you see the DSM-IV revised edition.

 

first of all melatonin functions for the night it is what makes you fall asleep, seeing as though the production of melatonin begins at night, and seretonin and epenepherine (adrenaline) have a bigger part in depression than melatonin. melatonin sedates you so why would would a neurotransmitter that sedates you, wake you up and seretonin is in use all day. it is known that simple activities like chewing gum boosts seretonin. secondly depression has also been linked to neurodeath( the death of brain cells) and a smaller than average hippocampus, that may be why excercise has been known to lift mild to moderate depressions, by producing neural growth. it is also thought that selective seretonin reuptake inhibitors(ssri's) produce neural growth also. also there may be a gene or genes for depression but no one gene or nuerotransmitter alone causes depression it is a collection of events, like predisposition, environmental stressors, here we are talking about both nature and nurture, no one thing causes depression.

[YT2095]

Depression`s there and is function is be nothing more than a "kick in the pants" that something`s going wrong in your life.

It`s an evolutionary deffence mechanism, sadly in a "Modern" world, we "play"on it and exploit it for attention or simpley just days off work.

basicly "Depression`s" just another warning sign. nothing more, nothing less!

 

The Chemical side of it is a recent development, generated by the "complainers" (usualy rich) and so now it`s become a "science"... regardless of the brain chems involved, it`s just an excuse used by the lazy to explain why their life is "Soooo Bad!"

fact... get off yer a$$ and DO something about it, then you`ll not only cure your depression, but maybe get a little self worth and never fall into that trap again!

these problems will always exist as long there`s people to listen to them (and charge 25 an hour!)

 

`Nuff said!

[Glider]

YT2095 said in post #44 :

`Nuff said!

Quite.

 

Not had an awful lot of experience with depression, have you?

[YT2095]

Glider, I won`t even pretend I understand what you said, so I can`t answer either way?

 

fact is, in MY experience, drugs tranx etc... aint the answer! getting off yer a$$ and DOING SOMETHING about it usualy is though

[neurogenesis]

buddy i think that a patient with suicidal ideation and a plethera of symptoms that are a bit more than annoying is more than a warning sign to get off your ass, the inability to stop crying, anhedonia ( the inability to experience pleasure in regular gratifying activities, obssesive thoughts. you are a skeptic i see. some people belive that there is no thing as mental disorders at all, they think that it is labeling that causes the person to expirience this afflictions and i think that it is a load of bull, if you think that depression is something that rich people complain about then i hope you never get drawn in the murky depths of a severe major depression. oh and "tranx" as you say isnt even used to treat depression, trycilics, maoi, and primarily ssri's are used to treat it, minor tranquilizers like xanax and valium are for anixety and major tranquilizers are for more serious conditions like schizophrenia and bipolar. but i let you believe what you want like the dude from the matrix said "ignorance is bliss"

[Glider]

YT2095 said in post #46 :

Glider, I won`t even pretend I understand what you said, so I can`t answer either way?

I presented the hypothesis that you have 'Not had an awful lot of experience with depression'. This was based upon your contention that 'Depression is nothing more than a kick in the pants'.

 

fact is, in MY experience, drugs tranx etc... aint the answer! getting off yer a$$ and DOING SOMETHING about it usualy is though

Ok, let's explore your experience. I'm always open to new ways of dealing with severe depression. So, exactly how many cases of severe depression have, in your experience, been successfully treated by telling the sufferer to 'get off his/her 'a$$' and DO SOMETHING about it'?

[YT2095]

Well speaking personaly, and after several years of clinical depression about 15 years ago (won`t go into details) and having tried many different medications, some of which made me feel even worse! and non of them actualy worked, I eventualy got sick of it, and decided to "Get off mt a$$" and do something about it myself, things like FORCING myself to get out the house, opening my mail rather than just pushing it back out the letter box, opening my curtains, MAKING myself actualy talk to folks, going out during the daytime etc... sure it wasn`t easy at first, but eventualy it worked, and I`ve never looked back since

[Glider]

Good for you! And well done. I'm glad you managed to overcome it.

 

However, that is still only 1. Whilst I admire your approach to your own depression, I don't think it provides a sound basis for dismissing the hundreds of thousands of other people with severe depression as attention seeking malingerers

 

we "play"on it and exploit it for attention or simpley just days off work.

or spoiled rich people

 

...generated by the "complainers" (usualy rich) and so now it`s become a "science"...

Nor do I believe that your approach would necessarily benefit them in any way.

 

Whilst you made a personal decision to do something about your condition, I doubt very much that you would have responded so well to somebody else telling you, in the middle of your despair, that your depression was

...just an excuse used by the lazy to explain why (your) life is "Soooo Bad!" fact... get off yer a$$ and DO something about it, then you`ll not only cure your depression, but maybe get a little self worth and never fall into that trap again!

 

Depression affects different people in different ways, and there are many types of depression (e.g. reactive, acute-severe, chronic (dysthymic disorder), bipolar (cyclothymic disorder), Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) and so-on). These conditions can and do destroy people and wreck families.

 

To imply that these have been turned into a science and exist for the benefit of the clinicians or therapists involved...

...these problems will always exist as long there`s people to listen to them (and charge 25 an hour!)

...is quite offensive, not least to those still suffering from depression, to whom it says "not only is everything hopeless, but the people you thought were trying to help you are really parasites feeding off your despair" (a great step forward on their path to recovery), and shows an astounding lack of insight into the condition, especially from one who has suffered from it in some form.