Revenge!!!!

[random]

There is quite alot of controversy on this subject. The leading experts suggest revenge is a negative emotion, that one should deal with the underlying anger and forget about it. BUT for those who have been truly wronged this is no easy feat. Somtimes revenge is the only option that can bring closure. It is next to impossible to forget a deep injustice so if your stance is to forgive and forget please be sure to include just how exactly one should do this.

 

To be truly justified the revenge needs to be on par with the injustice, for instance you cannot burn down someones house because they prank called you. To be certain of equal measures the old adage "revenge is a dish best served cold" is the best advice, meaning don't take your revenge while your still fuming over it because it will not be well planned and/or executed.

 

Pranks have no business in the revenge business, you will not likely feel vindicated unless there is actual suffering of the individual for instance would you rather have a scam business owner pranked with flat tires or would you rather he be subjected to an intense audit

instigated by you and several fake customers reporting they paid him large sums of cash? Then follow that up with a visit from the EPA if applicable and finally top it off by sending a letter with a health unit letter head to his intimate partner advising them to come in for STD testing because it has came to their attention they have been intimate with (business owner) who was just diagnosed with (insert nasty STD here) he/she is not being singled out ALL of (scam business owners) sexual partners are being notified.

 

So since there are so many intelligent people here perhaps we can have a little fun and share our nastiest revenge idea's here for laugh's. (and maybe a bit of brainstorming for future reference)

[Mr Skeptic]

Revenge is but one path to forgiveness, and certainly not the shortest.

 

Usually the vengeful person will (unconsciously) require slightly more harm than they received, so mutual revenge frequently leads to feuds. To avoid this trap you'd have to have someone else figure the proper amount of vengeance for you to take, and you have to forgive the rest.

 

The saying "an eye for an eye" really was the basis of several laws, and was taken very literally.

[random]

Revenge is but one path to forgiveness, and certainly not the shortest.

 

Usually the vengeful person will (unconsciously) require slightly more harm than they received, so mutual revenge frequently leads to feuds. To avoid this trap you'd have to have someone else figure the proper amount of vengeance for you to take, and you have to forgive the rest.

 

The saying "an eye for an eye" really was the basis of several laws, and was taken very literally.

 

 

That would be true justice yet we don't see it that way anymore, Only in cases of murder is an equal punishment considered. Even then the offender is given a rather "gentle" death and usually has several or more years before the sentence is carried out. True justice/revenge would be for the offender to die in the same manner they killed. But then..........since the life they took was an innoccent one others would debate there should be additional suffering to compensate for that fact. I think I would agree with that myself.

[Moontanman]

Revenge will do nothing to make you feel better and only cause harm to others. in the long term things that enrage you now will seem like bullshit years down the road. I know, I almost did something terrible once for revenge. i am very glad every time i think of it that i didn't do it and just let it go....

[random]

Revenge will do nothing to make you feel better and only cause harm to others. in the long term things that enrage you now will seem like bullshit years down the road. I know, I almost did something terrible once for revenge. i am very glad every time i think of it that i didn't do it and just let it go....

 

 

So how did you just let it go? Perhaps they were trivial matters but what would your reaction be if someone say burned your house down, you had no insurance, there was no way to prove the person did it but they told you they did, and the crisis caused you to lose your job which lead to your spouse leaving you? Would you just let it go? I'd much rather hear how you would avenge such an injustice.

[Moontanman]

So how did you just let it go? Perhaps they were trivial matters but what would your reaction be if someone say burned your house down, you had no insurance, there was no way to prove the person did it but they told you they did, and the crisis caused you to lose your job which lead to your spouse leaving you? Would you just let it go? I'd much rather hear how you would avenge such an injustice.

 

 

First not having insurance is my fault, second a spouse leaving me in hard times while annoying would be a good thing to get rid of some one who really didn't love you to begin with. Personal belongings can be replaced. Me going to jail because I tried to get revenge on someone who cannot be connected to the problem in anyway would be nuts as well. Loosing my job? There are always more jobs, an employer who would fire you because of such a crisis is not worth working for. Revenge? Yes revenge is sweet and so is antifreeze but drinking of it is stupid... Anyone who would burn down your house for no reason will eventually make a mistake he can't cover up and then you can visit him in prison and ask him "How do you like it now!"

[dragonstar57]

First not having insurance is my fault, second a spouse leaving me in hard times while annoying would be a good thing to get rid of some one who really didn't love you to begin with. Personal belongings can be replaced. Me going to jail because I tried to get revenge on someone who cannot be connected to the problem in anyway would be nuts as well. Loosing my job? There are always more jobs, an employer who would fire you because of such a crisis is not worth working for. Revenge? Yes revenge is sweet and so is antifreeze but drinking of it is stupid... Anyone who would burn down your house for no reason will eventually make a mistake he can't cover up and then you can visit him in prison and ask him "How do you like it now!"

no revenge would be arranging for him to fail to cover it up.

or burn his house down and frame him for insurance fraud

but the perfect revenge has just the perfect amount of irony.

there have been plenty of times where i thought I had gotten the prefect revenge but looking back the vengeance wasn't as well thought out as it should have been.

Edited September 25, 2010 by cipher510

[lemur]

The problem with revenge is that it can instigate a vicious cycle of grudges and feuding. Eventually one side has to take the initiative not to retaliate or it will go on forever. People realize this and try to stop other people from taking revenge, e.g. "I don't care who started it, I'm ending it." The problem with this is that people who avoid revenge because they understand the vicious cycle potential are vulnerable to having their tolerance tested. As Moontanman indicated in post #6, some people can endure a lot and maintain rationality and composure - but what about when such people finally reach their boiling point? Ultimately, I think people have to reach an awareness of their own retaliatory behavior as itself cruel, instead of only focussing on justifying it in light of what they are retaliating for. At that point, people realize that they themselves are in need of forgiveness instead of seeing themselves as the ones in the position to forgive someone else. As the prayer goes, "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." This is also theoretically the reason why Jesus is quoted as having said, "let those without sin cast the first stone." I.e. People judge and punish with a harsher spirit/attitude than when they are begging for mercy against their own judgment and punishment at the hands of others.

Edited September 25, 2010 by lemur

[Moontanman]

Well forgive might be taking it a bit far but I see no reason to come down to the level of such low lives...

[dragonstar57]

there is no need to attempt to get revenge on someone for the vengeance they got ageist you

ie. you cant get someone back for getting you back and an intelligent person will realize that they deserved it and let it go

[Moontanman]

there is no need to attempt to get revenge on someone for the vengeance they got ageist you

ie. you cant get someone back for getting you back and an intelligent person will realize that they deserved it and let it go

 

 

Your first mistake is assuming you are dealing with intelligence to start with... Intelligent people do not do things like you are talking about to begin with ...

[dragonstar57]

would it not take intelligence to come up with the prefect revenge?

[Moontanman]

would it not take intelligence to come up with the prefect revenge?

 

 

No more intelligence than it takes to think you can commit crimes and get away with it...

[dragonstar57]

No more intelligence than it takes to think you can commit crimes and get away with it...

no that intelligence is just the ability to plain.

revenge is the ability to come up with poetic justice and then implement it.

[Moontanman]

no that intelligence is just the ability to plain.

revenge is the ability to come up with poetic justice and then implement it.

 

 

All criminals think they are intelligent enough to get by with what ever it is they plan, they seldom do...

[ewmon]

Justice as a whole is composed of several basic forms of justice, one of them being "restorative justice" — remedying an offense — through revenge, forgiveness, restitution or compensation.

 

Revenge consists of causing harm, pain or suffering to counter a wrong. It probably comes from basic human emotions, and it typically follows contemplation of the original harm, and it usually involves severe anger with the intent to restore a victim’s damaged social status (even if such restoration is not real, but only imagined by the victim). Revenge often causes psychological harm to the victim as well as harming the offender. People typically consider it wrong because it often involves suppressed anger, which can cause psychological problems for the victim. Revenge is criticized because it typically doesn’t do what it was meant to achieve, and it can escalate into a quid pro quo situation.

 

Forgiveness, as with revenge, attempts to cope in response to perceived injustice. In contrast to revenge, forgiveness does not demand the offender to compensate the victim for the injustice inflicted. Forgiveness comes from a totally different perspective and results in a totally different conclusion. It is a mental, emotional and physical resolution to abandon all anger and, instead, to act with love and acceptance. Forgiveness is typically looked upon a religious act; however, parents teach it to their children, adults tend to encourage each other to forgive, and dying people make acts of forgiveness.

 

In forgiveness, the victim purposely relinquishes revenge and punishment and may free the offender from obligations to return or compensate the victim for what was taken, damaged or destroyed — often something that is impossible to do anyway.

[random]

Wise man say........forgiveness is divine but the people may confuse it for weakness. this thread is not going where I wanted it to go I was hoping to hear some brilliantly planned strategies for revenge. It does not have to break the law in any way, shape or form. Could be as simple as a girlfriend breaking up with you so you make it a mission to sleep with her Mother...........while she is in the next room of course.

 

how would you plan it out to make it a reality? Trying to get idea's for a book here people. Also alot of you say to forgive but not one has yet explained how they would do it? Would you just fume about it personally? would you rant and rave to anyone who would listen?

If it was an intense hatred would you seek psychological help?

[Moontanman]

The best thing would be to entrap them into a crime but not be involved your self other than turning them in. Having sex with your girl friends mom is just weird dude.... I gave up hating along time ago, it's counter productive and only hurts your self...

Edited September 26, 2010 by Moontanman

[lemur]

Wise man say........forgiveness is divine but the people may confuse it for weakness. this thread is not going where I wanted it to go I was hoping to hear some brilliantly planned strategies for revenge. It does not have to break the law in any way, shape or form. Could be as simple as a girlfriend breaking up with you so you make it a mission to sleep with her Mother...........while she is in the next room of course.

 

how would you plan it out to make it a reality? Trying to get idea's for a book here people. Also alot of you say to forgive but not one has yet explained how they would do it? Would you just fume about it personally? would you rant and rave to anyone who would listen?

If it was an intense hatred would you seek psychological help?

 

If you really want revenge, the best way to pursue it is to come up with something that will enlighten the person. You don't want to just harm them in retaliation without them knowing that it was you or why. You want to make them aware of what damage they did to incur wrath so that they will understand the gravity of what they did to you. If you just do something covert to hurt them, they may never even understand it let alone reflect on their own deed that earned them revenge.

[dragonstar57]

I have never really gotten a spectacular revenge because I have never had anyone do anything that was bad enough for that kind of plaining. revenge should not be driven by anger but the anticipation of vengeance's sweetness. and simple harm ageist the person is not enough if someone hurts your friend. is it enough to just walk up and punch the person? or would you rather slip contact solution in their drink before a big date?

Edited September 26, 2010 by cipher510

[Mr Skeptic]

So how did you just let it go?

 

I used to be a fairly vengeful individual, but it didn't really do me any good. I learned forgiveness is the better path. My answer to how to let go of feelings for revenge depends on the severity of the offense:

1) Trivial Offenses: To properly avenge yourself of every minor offense perpetrated against you by even one person, takes an awful lot of energy and time. It might not seem that way but they are likely going to take revenge themselves for what you do to them, so you will have a constant supply of offenses that need avenging. Properly hating a person takes a lot of time and effort, which you cannot really afford to dedicate just anyone. You must ask yourself, "Am I really willing to invest hours of my life hurting this person?" If not, then it is best not to take revenge at all, because if you do and they retaliate then you will have an even bigger need to avenge yourself.

 

2) Non-Trivial Offenses: Really the only way to avenge yourself for a non-trivial offense would be illegal, unless there were just the perfect circumstances. On the other hand, searching for the perfect circumstances that would allow you to take revenge for a huge offense legally, would take an awful lot of time, possibly years or even decades. During which time you will suffer immensely due to the unresolved offense.

 

3) For both: Also, vengeance can be bad for your health. I don't just mean the possibility that someone feed you a small amount of rat poison or something, but rather that you'll raise your level of cortisol which is bad for your health in many many ways. Also, revenge cannot be taken immediately due to the vengeance being inappropriate, bad consequences which would result, or simply being unable to pull it off. This means that during this time you will suffer, in addition to the time and effort spent on revenge. Also worth considering is that people who do nasty things to you without you deserving it, are likely to do the same to other people and eventually others will do nasty things to him.

 

If you really want revenge, the best way to pursue it is to come up with something that will enlighten the person. You don't want to just harm them in retaliation without them knowing that it was you or why. You want to make them aware of what damage they did to incur wrath so that they will understand the gravity of what they did to you. If you just do something covert to hurt them, they may never even understand it let alone reflect on their own deed that earned them revenge.

 

Indeed. It is a very poor revenge that does not leave the offender sorry for his actions. Which can only happen if they are aware that their situation is a vengeance. And yet, letting them know means you expose yourself to their counter-revenge. Quite the conundrum.

 

this thread is not going where I wanted it to go I was hoping to hear some brilliantly planned strategies for revenge. It does not have to break the law in any way, shape or form. Could be as simple as a girlfriend breaking up with you so you make it a mission to sleep with her Mother...........while she is in the next room of course.

 

how would you plan it out to make it a reality? Trying to get idea's for a book here people. Also alot of you say to forgive but not one has yet explained how they would do it? Would you just fume about it personally? would you rant and rave to anyone who would listen?

If it was an intense hatred would you seek psychological help?

 

It's not going where you wanted it to, because of poor communication on your part. For example, including untrue stuff like "Somtimes revenge is the only option that can bring closure." means people will tend to respond to that, on top of it diluting your final question that seems to be the only part you were really interested in to begin with. Besides which, you put this in the Psychiatry and Psychology section rather than in, say, the Brain Teasers and Puzzles titled eg "the perfect revenge". Might end up getting locked though, given that we're not too fond of illegal things and many of the best or at least easiest revenges would be illegal. Maybe require that the vengeance be legal?

 

---

 

Anyhow, despite my personal renunciation of revenge, I do appreciate it exists. Were it not for revenge and anger in general, people wouldn't be afraid to do nasty things to me. So while I am not willing to invest the effort needed to avenge myself, at least not the vast majority of the time, I am glad that other people are and so people are nice enough not to do things that they know would anger me. I guess that makes me a freeloader , skimping on my duty to avenge myself so people will be afraid to anger myself or other people.

 

...Yup, were it the case that people didn't take revenge, I would definitely take revenge on people so they won't take advantage of me. I'm definitely a freeloader on the revenge thing.

[random]

Point taken mr. Skeptic. I thought this section would be most appropriate because it relates to mental health. Anger, hatred, etc. can indeed consume an individual. I am looking for the Extreme, Think Count of monte cristo, planned and carried out to perfection. Ignorance on my part led me to omit other sections of the forum, assuming the most knowledgable about the inner workings of the human mind and truly vengeful minds would be found here. I was hoping I would find the Michael Scoffield of revenge (t.v. show prison break) And a psychiatrist or psychologist who has dealt with the type of personality needed to transfer anger into a most satisfying revenge. If there is a psychiatrist posessing the traits of Hannibal Lecter lurking in this forum then by all means please step forward and offer up some scenarios. Excluding the cannibalism of course because that's just gross.

[lemur]

I have never really gotten a spectacular revenge because I have never had anyone do anything that was bad enough for that kind of plaining. revenge should not be driven by anger but the anticipation of vengeance's sweetness. and simple harm ageist the person is not enough if someone hurts your friend. is it enough to just walk up and punch the person? or would you rather slip contact solution in their drink before a big date?

 

I tend to believe in the law of karma, where everything that people do to others will eventually happen to them. Think this can provide a certain feeling of revenge, i.e. "they'll get theirs." But it also deters you from actively plotting revenge because you realize that harm and vengeance are a continuous loop, meaning the thing you're retaliating for is probably something you did to someone else in some way in the past and you were just experiencing the effect of your own past-actions. So you can retaliate but karma says that by doing so you are putting the series of events into effect that will eventually bring your revenge back to you at someone else's hands.

 

Of course, many people hate the idea of karma because they prefer the idea that they can do things in their life that they can get away with never happening to them, but if you think about it that doesn't make sense because every action you take is part of a larger vocabulary of human possibilities. So when you reach into the grab-bag of possible human actions, you are basically setting a precedent that increases the likelihood of that action happening more in general in the future. As a result it becomes more likely that you will experience that action from another angle at a future moment. Probably some types of action go extinct because they fall out of use completely while others rise in popularity and become more common to experience as both actor and acted-upon. If revenge or certain methods of revenge grow in popularity, it is likely that people will be more often punished with revenge in their everyday lives - and likewise many of these people will be angered by it to the point of seeking revenge for revenge. Life could end up a lot like Looney Toons.

[dragonstar57]

I tend to believe in the law of karma, where everything that people do to others will eventually happen to them. Think this can provide a certain feeling of revenge, i.e. "they'll get theirs." But it also deters you from actively plotting revenge because you realize that harm and vengeance are a continuous loop, meaning the thing you're retaliating for is probably something you did to someone else in some way in the past and you were just experiencing the effect of your own past-actions. So you can retaliate but karma says that by doing so you are putting the series of events into effect that will eventually bring your revenge back to you at someone else's hands.

 

Of course, many people hate the idea of karma because they prefer the idea that they can do things in their life that they can get away with never happening to them, but if you think about it that doesn't make sense because every action you take is part of a larger vocabulary of human possibilities. So when you reach into the grab-bag of possible human actions, you are basically setting a precedent that increases the likelihood of that action happening more in general in the future. As a result it becomes more likely that you will experience that action from another angle at a future moment. Probably some types of action go extinct because they fall out of use completely while others rise in popularity and become more common to experience as both actor and acted-upon. If revenge or certain methods of revenge grow in popularity, it is likely that people will be more often punished with revenge in their everyday lives - and likewise many of these people will be angered by it to the point of seeking revenge for revenge. Life could end up a lot like Looney Toons.

karma?? karma is a Buddhist belief about what happens to good people when they die vs bad pple.

i see how the "my name is earl" karma might come into play (if it exists) but that has never been proven.

Edited September 26, 2010 by cipher510

[lemur]

karma?? karma is a Buddhist belief about what happens to good people when they die vs bad pple.

i see how the "my name is earl" karma might come into play (if it exists) but that has never been proven.

 

I thought karma was Hindu, but it doesn't really matter. You don't even have to use the word karma; I just find it easier to use a familiar word than explain the concept completely from scratch. Karma can be thought of in terms of past and future lives due to reincarnation, but it can also be applied to events within a single human lifetime. The idea of karma actually makes the morality of good and bad somewhat irrelevant because it simply says that what you do to others will be done to you. So instead of moralizing about what is good and evil, you can just count on it happening to you if you do it to someone else. People do often fall into moral discussions of what causes "worse karma" than something else, but those discussions are easily resolved by saying, "whether good or bad, if you do it to someone else it will be done to you." I was talking with someone about euthanasia the other day and they were talking about the mercy of it and that there may be good karma incurred from it, etc. but it's just as simple as "if you euthanize someone to save them from their suffering, someone will euthanize you to save you from yours at some point." That way you can simply decide for yourself how you would/will feel about someone euthanizing you, under what conditions, etc. instead of reasoning about it in abstract terms. I'm not suggesting you should believe in karma; just explaining the logic and why it is somewhat plausible. If you're an anti-ideologue please spare me all the reasons against it; I'm well aware of those and I'm not a fanatic trying to demonstrate the physical reality of karma as a type of sub-atomic particle or something.