Why does everybody write so well in their posts?

[Mr Rayon]

Why does everybody in this forum write in such an expressive and sophisticated manner? We are in the internet after all, and hence isn't it the social norm to type in 'lol' or 'gr8' and 'omg' from time-to-time?

 

WhY NoT wRiTe likE thIs?

Edited October 12, 2010 by Voltman

[CaptainPanic]

I believe there are several reasons (just to name a few that come to mind):

 

1. The abbreviations (gr8, lol, omg, etc.) are, in many cases, emotional. Science often is not. Instead, it is based on facts... therefore these abbreviations are not used so much.

2. Posts are written using keyboards, not using a phone's pad... so a few extra characters take just a fraction of a second.

3. The speed with which a reply is written is not important: nobody is waiting on the other end of the line, like in a chat session.

4. In science it is often necessary to write slightly longer sentences to express complex concepts... why save a few characters when you're already typing hundreds?

5. An excess of internet abbreviations will result in a remark from one of the members to write complete sentences... thereby teaching the newbie never to do that again

 

... and finally:

6. Because not everybody knows all the abbreviations?

 

ZOMG!

[timo]

I'd say because especially on a science forum, the idea is -or at least should be- that expressing an opinion or idea is the product of some brain activity beyond that of a Chimp. So if I actually do think before I post, I can as well express that properly. "lol" basically is "I find it funny but don't bother with or am not capable of the effort to specify why or in what respect".

 

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that the audience of a science forum contains at least a few actual scientists. As a scientist, you are actually also a professional writer to some degree, since already at the level of a PhD student (at least usually) it is required that you publish research results in journals.

Edited October 12, 2010 by timo

[Sayonara]

Juvenile morons don't tend to stick around.

[swansont]

Most of us (especially so for the ones answering the questions) aren't twelve-year-olds texting on phones. Which is just about the only excuse* for not attempting to use proper English (of whatever flavo(u)r you've been taught).

 

 

 

*the other being "I'm Sarah Palin"

[Mr Skeptic]

Why does everybody in this forum write in such an expressive and sophisticated manner? We are in the internet after all, and hence isn't it the social norm to type in 'lol' or 'gr8' and 'omg' from time-to-time?

 

No. That is a social norm for instant communications. Those are limited by the speed at which people type, and typically only seen by a few people, and written in single or even half sentences, with the occasional multi-sentence spree.

 

The forums are visible to the whole world, are also read by many people who haven't been exposed to the various abbreviations potentially years after the person who wrote it has left, so that any misunderstanding cannot be cleared up. Since these are not instant communication, they also tend to be longer and there is of course much more time to go through it and check for mistakes, as well as no need to speed things up.

 

Basically, both are done the way they are because it is quicker that way. We do have a chat system, and I think that peoples there use the abbreviations much more than here on the forums, though I don't because I'm not trained to use them and so it would be slower for me to do so.

 

WhY NoT wRiTe likE thIs?

 

It would be painfully slow both to write and to read, and people would hate you for it.

 

Most of us (especially so for the ones answering the questions) aren't twelve-year-olds texting on phones. Which is just about the only excuse* for not attempting to use proper English (of whatever flavo(u)r you've been taught).

 

What about when discussing illegal or dubious things, like the 1337 hax0r5 do? I think part of the reason for them was to avoid trouble with law enforcement, both because their words as such for a while couldn't be monitored and because it lets them know if the person they are talking to has had practice with that type of language.

[insane_alien]

Also, some people who vist the site have a first language other than English. It isn't fair to them if they have to know proper English AND the various forms of slang which may or may not translate very well.

[Sisyphus]

I agree with all of the above regarding reasons the language in posts is different from text/IM speak. That said, I usually do not put much though into exactly how I'm going to say what I mean, unless it becomes an issue in a particular thread. I write in "first draft," and the actual language (as opposed to the ideas) of my posts generally takes about as much time to compose as it would to say out loud. This makes excessive IM language seem especially pointless, and generally prevents me from taking the message seriously.

[swansont]

 

What about when discussing illegal or dubious things, like the 1337 hax0r5 do? I think part of the reason for them was to avoid trouble with law enforcement, both because their words as such for a while couldn't be monitored and because it lets them know if the person they are talking to has had practice with that type of language.

 

We don't do that here, nor would we tend to tolerate more than one or two 1337 abbreviations, just as we tolerate a very few text-ish abbreviations.

[Mr Skeptic]

We don't do that here, nor would we tend to tolerate more than one or two 1337 abbreviations, just as we tolerate a very few text-ish abbreviations.

 

Oh, I had meant in other places.

 

---

 

We do however use abbreviations for multi-word phrases, eg eg, IMO, FYI, and a few others. These have the benefit of saving a lot more typing while at the same time being more familiar.

[swansont]

 

We do however use abbreviations for multi-word phrases, eg eg, IMO, FYI, and a few others. These have the benefit of saving a lot more typing while at the same time being more familiar.

 

True. But e.g. is an accepted Latin shorthand used in journal articles, and the most of the others are abbreviations leftover from the USENET era, rather than being text-speak.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Why does everybody in this forum write in such an expressive and sophisticated manner?

 

Because we want to be expressive and sophisticated.

 

More precisely, it is much easier to make a sophisticated point when your writing is clear, expressive and grammatically sound.

 

Also, we're all hopelessly pedantic.

[insane_alien]

I wouldn't say we're all hopelessly pedantic. I often forget to use proper capitalization. True it's a thing that I'm trying to fix but old habits die hard.

 

Note: I had to go over this 3 times to put in the capitals I missed. Yes, I do know there aren't many in this short post, thats just how bad this habit is.

[lemur]

Internet discussion forums are basically a medium with unlimited bandwidth. Therefore there is ample room for all possible forms of language-use and expression. Why exterminate the robust use of grammar, vocabulary, and conceptual sophistication to imitate writing that you could use in another discussion forum where it's popular? I have no problem with people using abbreviations, etc. in any forum, but it becomes a problem when you start suggesting that other writing styles should be curtailed.

[Klaynos]

Because, frankly, it makes it easier for everyone else to understand us.

 

Also, I quite frequently post from one phone, which I am doing right now. The biggest problem I find is not including kisses at the end of my post.

[the tree]

There are a few posts with the odd 'lol', 'fyi' and 'ymmv' - it's not like we're completely devoid of abbreviations. I think the abbreviate-every-single-word-at-all-costs thing was a passing fad, and even though new initialisations still crop up every day, there is a general pattern of ease over brevity nowadays.

[Klaynos]

IIRC I use IIRC frequently on here.

[Genius D'lima]

Haha, well I'm in Grade 11, and honestly, I'm really interested in sience n stuff which is the reason im on this forum...

 

obviously most of you guys/girls are much older than me judgin by your responses, but I find no problem with lol ttyl zomg lmfao roflcopter smd

 

i mean i dooo feel really smart when i talk like tht tho and i normally dooo if i am talkin about science which seems write to use these to understand complex concepts/ideas/theories.

 

Other than that though, I think people should just type the way they feel, and if you feel like some proper grammer, do it up.

[Leader Bee]

People should talk how they "feel" as long as it's legible. Admittedly my sentence structure isnt the best and I put apostrophies and commas maybe where they shouldn't be but i generally feel my spelling and lack of abreviations are a good thing.

 

As mentioned above it's a multilingual forum dealing with complex discussion of tightly defined scientific concepts. Minimising ambiguity is essential in a forum like this.

[Bignose]

Because, frankly, it makes it easier for everyone else to understand us.

 

This was the 1st thought that came to my mind as well. That science uses words that normally have a very specific meaning. For example, energy has a very specific meaning. Ambiguity and impreciseness and even colloquialisms normally lead to less understanding, not more. And this forum exists largely in order to increase understanding about science.

[between3and26characterslon]

Why does everybody in this forum write in such an expressive and sophisticated manner? We are in the internet after all, and hence isn't it the social norm to type in 'lol' or 'gr8' and 'omg' from time-to-time?

 

WhY NoT wRiTe likE thIs?

 

Because we can

[JohnB]

I wouldn't say we're all hopelessly pedantic. I often forget to use proper capitalization. True it's a thing that I'm trying to fix but old habits die hard.

 

Note: I had to go over this 3 times to put in the capitals I missed. Yes, I do know there aren't many in this short post, thats just how bad this habit is.

 

*Must resist! Must resist!*

 

You left out an apostrophe in the last sentence, "thats" should be "that's".

 

"Resistance was futile."

 

 

On a more serious note, I try to be clear in what I write. The written word, while a transmitter of ideas is not a perfect transmitter and so introduced ambiguities like txt speech only serve to cloud the issue. The idea is to be as expressive and immediately understandable as I can. If you can read my words and understand my meaning, then I have succeeded, but if you have to take the time to decypher my words before even attempting the meaning behind them, then I have failed.

Edited October 19, 2010 by JohnB

[swansont]

*Must resist! Must resist!*

 

You left out an apostrophe in the last sentence, "thats" should be "that's".

 

"Resistance was futile."

 

 

Was that comma properly used? (I'm thinking it should be a colon). And shouldn't the period go inside the quotation marks?

 

 

 

On a more serious note, I try to be clear in what I write. The written word, while a transmitter of ideas is not a perfect transmitter and so introduced ambiguities like txt speech only serve to cloud the issue. The idea is to be as expressive and immediately understandable as I can. If you can read my words and understand my meaning, then I have succeeded, but if you have to take the time to decypher my words before even attempting the meaning behind them, then I have failed.

 

True. We often have a hard enough time understanding the nuances in grammatically well-written speech. Adding a thick layer of imprecision to an already imprecise language is not useful.

[michel123456]

If you can read my words and understand my meaning, then I have succeeded, but if you have to take the time to decypher my words before even attempting the meaning behind them, then I have failed.

 

Applause.

I have met so many people in my life that don't have the same ideas and that makes me sad. They use language only to show that they belong to this or that culture. They are totally indifferent about communication, not to say that in many case communication is not the purpose at all. It is much more about identification or elitism.

I am really happy to see people like you JohnB & Swansont

 

Why does everybody in this forum write in such an expressive and sophisticated manner? We are in the internet after all, and hence isn't it the social norm to type in 'lol' or 'gr8' and 'omg' from time-to-time?

 

WhY NoT wRiTe likE thIs?

 

Emphasis mine: the social norm, that's what I am talking about

Edited October 19, 2010 by michel123456

[JohnB]

Was that comma properly used? (I'm thinking it should be a colon). And shouldn't the period go inside the quotation marks?

Yes it was, a colon could have been used, due to the part before the comma being an independent clause, but the use of a comma is also correct.

 

These are good references to rely on:

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

http://www.montanalife.com/writing/Comma_Rules.html

http://www.suite101.com/content/when-to-use-a-comma-a120050

http://www.myenglishteacher.net/USINGCOLONS.HTML

http://www.whitesmoke.com/punctuation-colon.html

 

The period goes inside the quotation marks when quoting an entire sentence as I did with "Resistance was futile.". By quoting the entire sentence I'm also quoting any and all punctuation used in that sentence, however that puctuation is separate from, and not relevent to, the punctuation of the containing sentence, hence the use of two periods in my previous sentence. When one is quoting single words or phrases from other sentences the initial punctuation is incomplete and therefore the punctuation required is that of the containing sentence, hence the period goes outside the quotation marks. Periods, by definition end complete sentences, "that's" by itself is not a complete sentence, but the sentence containing it was.

 

Alternatively it can be simply argued that the original word quoted, "thats", did not contain a period and so the corrected form, "that's", shouldn't either. Inserting the corrected word with the period would render the original sentence incomprehensible.

 

http://www.essayforum.com/general-writing-questions-13/proper-use-punctuation-marks-5840/

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-English-Punctuation-Correctly

 

I can only add that while grammatically correct, using the word "and" to start a sentence is generally frowned upon due to overuse.

 

(If my 4th Grade teacher could only see me now. )

 

michel123456, thanks for the applause but it's swansont and the other practicing scientists around here that deserve it. When writing papers for publication their language must be clear and concise so that others know exactly what they have done or discovered. That style of writing they bring here and it sets a standard, even if they don't see it in that light. I'm just trying to keep up.

Edited October 20, 2010 by JohnB