Juan Williams Fired over Politically Incorrect Remarks

[Pangloss]

National Public Radio fired 10-year commentator Juan Williams yesterday over remarks he made as a guest on the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox News Channel earlier in the week. Here's what Williams said:

 

“I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot. You know the kind of books I’ve written about the civil rights movement in this country,” Williams told host Bill O’Reilly during a discussion on the dilemma between fighting jihadists and fears about average Muslims.

 

“But when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they’re identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous,” Williams said.

 

Williams says he was fired remotely, without even a face-to-face meeting. This comes following controversy over Bill O'Reilly's appearance on The View, which is what was being discussed when the comments were made. O'Reilly said on that program that "Muslims attacked us on 9/11", a factually accurate statement that he later clarified to mean "not all Muslims", but which prompted a walkout by Whoppi Goldberg and Joy Behar.

 

Following his firing, Williams added these comments (same article):

 

"I do a double take. I have a moment of anxiety of fear given what happened on 9/11. That's just a reality," he said, noting that when he told his former boss, she suggested that Williams had made a bigoted statement.

 

"It's not a bigoted statement. In fact, in the course of this conversation with Bill O'Reilly, I said we have an obligation as Americans to be careful to protect the constitutional rights of everyone in our country and to make sure that we don't have any outbreak of bigotry. but that there's a reality. You can not ignore what happened on 9/11 and you cannot ignore the connection to Islamic radicalism, and you can't ignore the fact of what has even recently been said in court with regard to this is the first drop of blood in a Muslim war in America."

 

I think that while the comment could be called "bigoted", it's clearly not a case of promoting bigotry. He's not even promoting the fear he felt. He's defending it as logical, but he's not saying that it's a good thing.

 

I think his firing had more to do with O'Reilly's View appearance, and the far-left ideology of National Public Radio. The justification of the firing is even stated outright as being due to inconsistency with their "editorial standards and practices". I think it has to do with their editorial position. From the same article:

 

"Tonight we gave Juan Williams notice that we are terminating his contract as a senior news analyst for NPR News," CEO Vivian Schiller and Senior Vice President for News Ellen Weiss said in a statement.

 

"Juan has been a valuable contributor to NPR and public radio for many years and we did not make this decision lightly or without regret. However, his remarks on 'The O'Reilly Factor' this past Monday were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR," they said. "We regret these circumstances and thank Juan Williams for his many years of service to NPR and public radio."

 

Jay Bookman of the Atlanta Journal-Constitutional applauded the firing, saying this:

 

Williams’ remarks this week validated a stereotype of all Muslims as terrorists just as a similar comment about black people — “When I get on a bus, if I see black people, I get worried, I get nervous” — validates a perception about black people as criminals.

 

There is no qualitative difference between the two stances. A very small percentage of black people are criminals, and a much much smaller percentage of Muslims are terrorists. But once you start defining the much larger group by the activities of that much smaller subset, you start down a very bad road.

 

NPR, in other words, acted appropriately.

 

The problem with the above statement is that Juan Williams didn't say that all Muslims are criminals. In fact he said the opposite. He's NOT "defining a much larger group by the activities of that much smaller subset". He's simply pointing out that some people (including himself) sometimes have irrational reactions.

 

Jacob Heilbrunn of the Huffington Post has a different take on it:

 

Juan Williams made a foolish and silly comment to Bill O'Reilly about Muslims the other day. But does it amount to a firing offense? No way. National Public Radio has badly blundered in sacking Williams.

 

Williams won't be the loser for leaving NPR. NPR will. At some point political correctness overwhelms common sense. Yes, their should be taboos when it comes to public discourse. Some taboos are necessary and even vital. Yes, trash-talking about Muslims has become dangerously prevalent.

 

But firing Williams only feeds those sentiments. The honorable thing would have been for Williams to apologize and for NPR to have moved on. Now it's created a furor and turned Williams into a martyr. Williams will survive his firing. The real loser isn't Williams, but NPR.

 

This is political correctness in spades. It's also part of a massive hypocrisy. Here are some examples of overt and direct religious bigotry by NPR commentators that produced no reaction from that network whatsoever. Why? Because this bigotry was aimed at Christians.

 

"I think he ought to be worried about what's going on in the Good Lord's mind, because if there is retributive justice, he'll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it." -- National Public Radio and ABC News reporter Nina Totenberg reacting to Senator Jesse Helms' claim that the government spends too much on AIDS research, July 8, 1995 Inside Washington.

 

"The Rapture, and I quote, `is the immediate departure from this Earth of over four million people in less than a fifth of a second,' unquote. This happily-volatilized mass of the saved were born again in Jesus Christ....The evaporation of four million people who believe this crap would leave the world an instantly better place." -- New Orleans-based National Public Radio commentator Andrei Codrescu, December 19, 1995 All Things Considered.

 

Did anybody move a Christian church after Timothy McVeigh – who adhered to a cultic, white supremacist cultic version of Christianity – bombed the Murrah building in Oklahoma? – Michel Martin on CNN's Reliable Sources, August 22, 2010. Martin is host of NPR’s “Tell Me More.”

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-bozell/2010/10/21/bozell-npr-firing-juan-williams-outrageous-congress-should-investigate

 

What do you all think? Should Williams have been fired?

[padren]

Based on the information provided, I'd say no. I've always hated politically correct BS, and frankly his comments seem pretty benign. The difference with what Bill O'Reilly said was that he stated a simple fact (That Muslims killed Americans on 9/11) as the justification for infringing on the rights of Muslims in general within America to construct centers with the same freedoms of other Americans. I can understand why people would find that offensive and bigoted. You could just as easily state the fact that dark skinned people attacked us on 9/11, and conclude that dark skinned people shouldn't enjoy the same freedoms to build anything near the WTC site.

 

All Juan Williams did was to acknowledge an emotional reaction that he has in certain situations, and didn't try to use that as a justification for any sort of bigotry.

 

 

All I can see coming out of this is more people shutting their mouths out of fear for their jobs, which can only hurt the discussion. It wouldn't be so bad to be fired for publicizing bigoted views or straight up distortions, but to be fired for appearing to publicize bigoted views in the eyes of individuals that don't even have to justify their conclusions is absolutely ridiculous, and in light of the other comments that get a pass it could be construed as bigoted in of itself.

[Moontanman]

Political correctness, i remember when that crap first started rolling. It started out with good intentions but as we all know the road to hell is paved with good intentions. To answer your question, no i don't think he should have been fired based on information you provided.

[Mr Skeptic]

Well, it was a bigoted statement, and while it does not promote bigotry per se, it does validate bigoted stereotypes, and as such promotes bigotry. I wouldn't have fired him though, and apology would have been better IMO.

[Pangloss]

This may be a good example of a story that separates the far left from the moderate/mainstream left, which seems to be lining up to condemn the firing.

 

Far Left:

Greg Dworkin at The Daily Kos:

Are airlines now to have a dress code? Are gray flannel suits the uniform? These are completely inappropriate comments, fanning the flames of intolerance and bigotry on a media site that does little enough to combat such views. This isn’t a tough call or a fine line.

 

Christine Pelosi, Democratic Activist and daughter of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi:

Juan Williams, meet Helen Thomas and Rick Sanchez. If you are truly scared when you see Muslims on airplanes, you should stay off airplanes and airwaves until you come to grips with your fears of people dressed in what you think is Islamic religious garb.

 

Mainstream Left:

Will Marshall, Founder of the Progressive Policy Institute:

What Juan Williams said was dumb, but understandable. What NPR did in reaction was even dumber and harder to understand.

 

Kate Brown, Media Relations Manager, New America Foundation:

As an avid listener and charitable supporter of NPR and a former employee of its Wisconsin affiliate, I am dismayed and distraught at the short-sightedness of the termination of veteran journalist Juan Williams. The decision to fire Mr. Williams was rash, and I believe, contradictory to NPR’s mission to embrace a wide range of voices, including those that may rub NPR’s main demographic the wrong way

 

 

Politico has started collecting some comments from around the Web and posting them here. Interestingly, many of the comments already posted on that page come from major universities and public policy centers.

[padren]

This may be a good example of a story that separates the far left from the moderate/mainstream left, which seems to be lining up to condemn the firing.

Could be true, though I think it may be overly simplistic. In the same way that there are social conservatives with what many conservatives consider intolerant social values, there are liberals with the same bent. While there is a strong correlation between far left political views overlapping with intolerant social values in a similar manner to that of the right, in may be inaccurate to bunch them together entirely at either extreme. I think it's fair though to say of either extreme, that when someone feels righteous enough to know the right way for people to act, they are far more likely to feel justified in telling people how to think and speak.

 

I would say that it is a good example that the moderate/mainstream left separates itself from and even condemns intolerant liberal social values, or at least the one of overzealous political correctness.

 

 

The comments of both Dworkin and Christine Pelosi bother me quite a bit. Both contain crude ridicule and bully-styled aggression and Pelosi especially plays on the language of intimidation, things these people should not consider politically correct, unless of course they consider the target to be worth less as a human than those they try to protect by imposing PC nonsense.

[waitforufo]

Juan Williams irks the left simply by appearing on Fox. By being on Fox Juan gives credibility to Fox’s claim of being balanced. NPR is simply using his benign personal statement as an excuse to punish him, and to set an example to other liberals. NPR is simply saying to other liberals “Don’t go on Fox or you will be Juaned.

[jackson33]

"Juan has been a valuable contributor to NPR and public radio for many years and we did not make this decision lightly or without regret. However, his remarks on 'The O'Reilly Factor' this past Monday were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR," they said. "We regret these circumstances and thank Juan Williams for his many years of service to NPR and public radio."[/Quote]

 

Even though NPR is a publicly funded entity, Williams probably was working under contract and NPR has invoked some ethics clause in that contract. I'm also kind of thinking the action stemmed from White House involvement, where anything Fox is immoral to begin with, if nothing else the idea the WH would embrace their action. Anyway, Williams may have legal recourse and if the 2011 House is Republican controlled NPR may have trouble getting financed.

 

As for what Williams did say, in context with the O'Reilly/View incident, IMO was NOT bigoted...

[Moontanman]

I've never been able to understand the far left and the far right, they both seem to be no more than a pack of dogs barking uncontrollably at anything that disturbs them. How could any intelligent, informed, reasonable human being not see a person dressed in traditional Muslim garb not, at least for a sec, think of the possibility of disaster. Even for a Muslim on a plane this would have to at least be a part of your self awareness of what is going on in the world. If Christian fundamentalists were blowing airplanes out of the sky i would think of that when ever I was on airplane and say some one with a cross around their neck. How could you not?

 

Unfortunately at this time the dog packs seem to be getting bigger and louder, maybe we need to neuter both extremes so they won't bark as much?

Edited October 21, 2010 by Moontanman

[zapatos]

Anyone in the public eye who starts out with "“I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot... But..." has got to know he is asking for trouble. Pretty minor from my perspective but these are the times we are in, and Juan should know it.

 

On another note, do you think when he said: “But when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they’re identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.", that he really meant it? I'm sure he flies all the time, he knows what airport security is like, he even reports on this kind of stuff. I guess I'm just wondering if he said it to give Bill O'Reilly some support for Bill's comments on The View.

[Pangloss]

I gritted my teeth today and watched a bit of Glenn Beck to see what his reaction would be. It's not real surprising but some of the rhetoric was entertaining and possibly even insightful (as opposed to just inciting).

 

His main point was: "Today, Juan Williams. Tomorrow, YOU."

 

I loved this quote: "THIS is what the first amendment is for -- to protect free speech. Who needs to protect free speech that's not challenging? Galileo didn't need his free speech to be protected when he agreed with the church, he needed it when he disagreed. And as for Juan Williams, you may disagree with him. I do -- often times. But I respect him, he's a decent man. You can watch Juan express himself or not, it's your choice. That's what America is all about. You can watch him tonight, he'll be on Bill O'Reilly, because this network still believes in free speech on both sides."

 

And this bit was pretty amusing, turning it into a tirade against progressives: "These people want to shut your speech down. Let me tell you something, if anyone tries to shut down Keith Olberman -- I find this guy reprehensible, wrong, easy to beat, but that' sa different story. But I stand shoulder to shoulder with him to defend his right to say the nonsense that he says. NEVER do I want him fired for what he says. My guess is he wouldn't do the same for me. But the difference here is that I am not a progressive. I believe the American people are smart, and in the end, they'll get it."

 

He also pointed out that Williams was fired on the same day that George Soros donated $1.8 million to NPR. Don't know much about that one but it could be just some random Beck insanity.

 

Nasty. NPR really stepped into it.

[jackson33]

This ought to get a reaction; Fox News has just announced a multi year extended contract with Mr. Williams....

 

Williams, who has served as a regular contributor on Fox News since 1997, got a new multi-year deal from the cable channel. Terms were not disclosed, but a source close to the network said Williams is getting a pay hike that will net him close to $2 million a year over three years. (The Los Angeles Times was the first to report Williams' new deal.)[/Quote]

 

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39786375/ns/today-entertainment/

[Pangloss]

ABC News and CBS News lead with the story tonight. NBC News, often accused of liberal bias by conservatives, ran the story much later in their broadcast. ABC reported on liberals who are criticizing NPR; NBC in contrast compared Williams with more outrageous statements from other commentators and focused on conservatives voicing their support for Williams. (Anybody wonder why I prefer ABC News?)

 

Anyway, that kind of attention is considered "primary focus" by the kind of establishment culture that tends to prevail at entities like NPR, as well as governments and corporations -- network attention elevates an issue. I wouldn't be surprised if NPR feels obligated to change its response in some way.

[Moontanman]

This ought to get a reaction; Fox News has just announced a multi year extended contract with Mr. Williams....

 

 

 

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39786375/ns/today-entertainment/

 

Could it have been staged?

[Pangloss]

Could it have been staged?

 

How do you mean?

[Moontanman]

How do you mean?

 

 

It just seems a little suspicious that this guy would come on FOX and say something he had to know was going to cause him problems and then FOX hires him? It's a win win for FOX for sure. No doubt FOX can pay much more than NPR. FOX gets to point their finger at NPR as being against fee speech and they get to say they are not only fro free speech but they hire the liberal guy and get to say they represent both sides... win win...

Edited October 21, 2010 by Moontanman

[Pangloss]

I see.

 

I think that makes about as much sense as Glenn Beck blaming it on the Tides Foundation and George Soros.

[swansont]

I gritted my teeth today and watched a bit of Glenn Beck to see what his reaction would be. It's not real surprising but some of the rhetoric was entertaining and possibly even insightful (as opposed to just inciting).

 

His main point was: "Today, Juan Williams. Tomorrow, YOU."

 

I loved this quote: "THIS is what the first amendment is for -- to protect free speech. Who needs to protect free speech that's not challenging? Galileo didn't need his free speech to be protected when he agreed with the church, he needed it when he disagreed. And as for Juan Williams, you may disagree with him. I do -- often times. But I respect him, he's a decent man. You can watch Juan express himself or not, it's your choice. That's what America is all about. You can watch him tonight, he'll be on Bill O'Reilly, because this network still believes in free speech on both sides."

 

And this bit was pretty amusing, turning it into a tirade against progressives: "These people want to shut your speech down. Let me tell you something, if anyone tries to shut down Keith Olberman -- I find this guy reprehensible, wrong, easy to beat, but that' sa different story. But I stand shoulder to shoulder with him to defend his right to say the nonsense that he says. NEVER do I want him fired for what he says. My guess is he wouldn't do the same for me. But the difference here is that I am not a progressive. I believe the American people are smart, and in the end, they'll get it."

 

He also pointed out that Williams was fired on the same day that George Soros donated $1.8 million to NPR. Don't know much about that one but it could be just some random Beck insanity.

 

Nasty. NPR really stepped into it.

 

This is not a first amendment issue at all, and Beck is wrong to spin it as one, as is everyone else who did. It isn't an example of the government censoring a private citizen, it's an employer firing an employee who represents them and failed to do in a manner acceptable to them.

 

And then there's the spin of portraying this as an isolated incident; William has run afoul of NPR policies before.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-juan-williams-20101022,0,4294425.story

[Pangloss]

Well in fairness Beck's not saying it's an act of government censorship. If he brought up the public funding angle I missed it -- he seemed more interested in George Soros and the Tides Foundation. Regarding NPR policies, the allegation is that they are being selectively applied. As usual Beck is spinning the issue to show a certain perspective, but I don't think he's completely out on a limb. That's the unfortunate thing about demagogues -- they start with a wee bit of truth, and if we dismiss that truth along with the falsehoods, we hurt ourselves even more than if we accept his exaggerations.

 

Regardless, the "it was just a policy matter" thing isn't carrying water with liberals, much less conservatives. Just to add a couple more, Whoopi Goldberg and Barbara Walters of The View spoke out against NPR today. This is notable because it was Goldberg who walked out on Bill O'Reilly in the first place (after she misunderstood something HE said), prompting the discussion that lead to Williams' firing.

 

BTW, Karl Rove in one interview today (guess which network) called NPR "National Progressive Radio". (chuckle)

[padren]

It just seems a little suspicious that this guy would come on FOX and say something he had to know was going to cause him problems and then FOX hires him? It's a win win for FOX for sure. No doubt FOX can pay much more than NPR. FOX gets to point their finger at NPR as being against fee speech and they get to say they are not only fro free speech but they hire the liberal guy and get to say they represent both sides... win win...

 

I was sort of wondering if the guy wanted to be fired, if he had some bad blood and thought the right comment could bait his boss well enough. Still, I don't think it would validate NPR's position and even a crazy bigoted right wing meany deserves the benefit of the doubt if there's no evidence.

[Pangloss]

Maybe I misread you, but Juan Williams is no "crazy right-wing meanie". He's a liberal, who's used somewhat like Alan Combs, to ostensibly (and for the most part effectively) represent the other side.

 

--------------

 

On a related note, I have a general comment regarding the censorship angle.

 

The reason I find this accusation reasonable is that it fits the general socio-political environment. As I see it, and just to generalize horribly for a moment, the left is generally in the minority in this country -- it's a pretty conservative nation, on the whole (e.g. religion). So the progressive left, knowing that it's in the minority, relies upon the need to control the discourse to some degree. Open opinionating is viewed as dangerous and detrimental because if they can't control the message then they certainly can't fight the already-uphill battle of selling it to a generally-unwilling public.

 

They've found over the years that Americans will accept soft-sell progressivism over time. Whether it's the Hollywood three-act story or the singleworkingmotherwithkids of the nightly news, there is no debate taking place -- it's all message, all the time. They like that approach because it works -- busy Americans can have their opinions gradually molded by an underlying progressive message. It never worked as fast or as well as progressives wanted it to, but generally speaking it did have an impact.

 

But that America doesn't exist anymore. Conservative Talk Radio, the conservative side of the blogosphere, and Fox News Channel have leveled the playing field. Today's Americans still consume entertainment and news, but they're not as persuaded by the soft sell anymore. They'll happily watch an episode of CSI that "raises awareness" about global warming, then just as happily chuckle and move on, with no effect on their opinion whatsoever. Hollywood's still selling it, but nobody's buying anymore.

 

I believe that fact has infuriated the progressive movement. They've lost the little toe-hold they had (which was far more than they'd ever rightly earned), and they can't stand the fact that the country seems to be so infernally stupid. I mean it MUST be stupid, right? They're not making the right decisions! Forget open discourse, we've got to take action!

 

So yeah, when Juan Williams gets canned by an organization that regularly trash-talks tea party members, religious people and conservatives in general, and it fires him only after he appears to cross the line with a conservative-like statement, even though it conveniently forgot its own rules when he was passing the correct social message, YES that's an example of censorship.

 

Anyway, that's how I see it.

[padren]

Pangloss, I know he's not a crazy righty, I was speaking sarcastically to poke fun at how they treated him like a devil-conservative. As for the rest of what you said, perhaps the far left progressive movement, but almost all liberals I know, even ones that really want giant government programs really can't stand political correctness. I don't think it's fair equivocation to say "Fox News Channel have leveled the playing field" when while it could be considered "leveled" between extreme left and right, not only is it unmatched as a relatively mainstream manufacturer of misinformation, but all this highlights is the two extremes being bullies when 90% of the left can't stand their own extremes anymore than they like the right's.

 

Fox isn't doing the moderate right any favors anymore than Christine Pelosi does for the left with her comments.

 

 

I suspect that while Williams will likely not be offered (or want) his job back, I bet NPR will have to admit they overreacted, and it won't be Fox News but pressure from the left (people that actually listen to NPR) that will be the reason for it.

[swansont]

Well in fairness Beck's not saying it's an act of government censorship.

 

Exactly. It's not government censorship, and yet he cast this as a first-amendment issue. Your right to free speech in the US is a right against government censorship. Anyone saying that this is a violation of free speech right has missed that point. Anyone calling it censorship is right. It is censorship, and there's nothing about it that violates your rights. You employer has the right to control what you say in front of a microphone when you are a face of their organization.

[Pangloss]

Sure they do. And NPR chose NOT to censor Juan Williams when he espoused a liberal perspective. Not only on Fox News Channel, but in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, Atlantic Monthly and Time magazine. For ten years they allowed this to take place.

 

But the very first time he says something that sounds conservative on Fox News (late 2009), he gets a warning, and the second time he gets fired. Gee.

[ydoaPs]

Islamiphobia sounds conservative?