Stupid Liberal Son of a Bitch

[Moontanman]

Today when I went to vote I was accosted several times by people wanting me to vote for their candidate, since I was in line I listened politely as the line moved but one guy asked me if I knew who i was going to vote for in the several non partisan local appeals court judge races. I told him (truthfully) that I wasn't planning on voting for any of them since i didn't know them and there had been very little information about them available. he covertly offered me a list of the correct choices for these judgeships. I asked him, what he meant by correct. He again pressed the list in my hand and said very quietly so no one would over hear, " i have a list of the candidates the Tea party approves of. I told him no thanks, a list from him wasn't enough information to get me to vote for his people. He stepped back and quite loudly called me a "Stupid Liberal son of a Bitch" so now i know why i can't be a Conservative, I just don't take orders well

[ajb]

Sorry to hear you were verbally abused. This sort of thing is never nice.

 

From what I can gather the Tea Party is a homophobic, racist, Christian group who look back in history to an America that never was.

 

Should liberal, as well as non-Christian people be worried by them?

Edited November 2, 2010 by ajb

[Pangloss]

So Moontanman, do you agree with AJB's assertion that Tea Party groups are homophobic and racist?

[Moontanman]

I'm going to assume this guy was an aberration, it's difficult to imagine large numbers of people with his attitude.

[Pangloss]

I agree. I'd be interested in hearing how you've "gathered" that opinion, AJB.

 

Regarding the incident, I think it's deplorable and I think you should have called the authorities. Even if you couldn't prove it, similar reports would have produced an actionable account. And it's not really very likely that you're the only person he said that to, is it?

[A Tripolation]

So Moontanman, do you agree with AJB's assertion that Tea Party groups are homophobic and racist?

 

I tend to agree with that, Pangloss. I see a lot of that where I live. The Tea Party group is quite horrid in my opinion. And most of them have the intelligence of a doormat.

 

Of course it's fallacious to generalize, but... I've only met one intelligent Tea Party-er.

 

I'm going to assume this guy was an aberration, it's difficult to imagine large numbers of people with his attitude.

 

Go to a Southern Baptist church sometime during revival.

[Moontanman]

So Moontanman, do you agree with AJB's assertion that Tea Party groups are homophobic and racist?

 

 

I doubt you can paint such a large group with one brush.

[Sisyphus]

Regarding the incident, I think it's deplorable and I think you should have called the authorities. Even if you couldn't prove it, similar reports would have produced an actionable account. And it's not really very likely that you're the only person he said that to, is it?

 

Deplorable, sure, but how would it be actionable? I don't see how that's illegal.

[Pangloss]

I tend to agree with that, Pangloss. I see a lot of that where I live. The Tea Party group is quite horrid in my opinion. And most of them have the intelligence of a doormat.

 

Of course it's fallacious to generalize, but... I've only met one intelligent Tea Party-er.

 

So you have met one intelligent person who identifies with the tea party movement. I would suggest that you've met at least one other reasonably intelligent person who identifies with the tea party movement, but we'll set that aside for the moment.

 

How much time did you spend encountering tea party groups "where you live"?

 

The reason I ask is because I think this group -- SFN members -- is being hypocritical in condemning the influence of Fox News on conservatives while accepting and even supporting the exact same influence on itself in condemning the TPM based on biased news accounts and the left-wing blogosphere.

 

Evidence: 61% of tea party opponents say that racism has a lot to do with the TPM. Only 7% of supporters agree.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/04/AR2010050405168.html?hpid=moreheadlines

[Moontanman]

I tend to agree with that, Pangloss. I see a lot of that where I live. The Tea Party group is quite horrid in my opinion. And most of them have the intelligence of a doormat.

 

Of course it's fallacious to generalize, but... I've only met one intelligent Tea Party-er.

 

Around here most of the 'tea party" I've actually talked to one on one really didn't seem to understand the issues, and mostly just spout F.U.D.s and vague notions of taking "it" back.

 

Go to a Southern Baptist church sometime during revival.

 

Funny you should say that, around here many if not most churches issue sample ballots with the churches choices of who should be in office filled out. This is quite common here, Churches do their best to tell their members who to vote for. This is the most disturbing thing to me.

 

Every time I start to drift toward being a Conservative I meet one personally and I come to my senses.

[Pangloss]

Deplorable, sure, but how would it be actionable? I don't see how that's illegal.

 

Voter intimidation is governed by federal law. But I think you mean just that his comment wasn't actionable because he wasn't actually threatening Moon, right? I agree that it's more insulting than directly threatening, but like I said it's probably not the only comment that gentleman has made to people at that polling place today. Reporting the incident gives the authorities a reason to investigate. Other people may have had trouble with that person or at that polling place.

 

If nothing else, authorities could be positioned in the area in an effort to reduce the problem.

 

Churches do their best to tell their members who to vote for. This is the most disturbing thing to me.

 

Is it less disturbing when a labor union does it?

[Moontanman]

So you have met one intelligent person who identifies with the tea party movement. I would suggest that you've met at least one other reasonably intelligent person who identifies with the tea party movement, but we'll set that aside for the moment.

 

How much time did you spend encountering tea party groups "where you live"?

 

The reason I ask is because I think this group -- SFN members -- is being hypocritical in condemning the influence of Fox News on conservatives while accepting and even supporting the exact same influence on itself in condemning the TPM based on biased news accounts and the left-wing blogosphere.

 

Evidence: 61% of tea party opponents say that racism has a lot to do with the TPM. Only 7% of supporters agree.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/04/AR2010050405168.html?hpid=moreheadlines

 

 

So you would expect racists to admit to being racist? If I had $ for every time a racist has sworn not to be racist I would be a rich man.

 

"I don't have anything against black people, I think everyone should own a couple..."

[ajb]

I agree. I'd be interested in hearing how you've "gathered" that opinion, AJB.

 

BBC news reports.

 

Some of their members/supporters have said really stupid things. Also the more public members seem quite undesirable to me

 

 

• Christine O'Donnell, the witch that says I am not allowed a wan*k.
  
• Sarah Palin, she wants creationism taught in public schools.
  

 

I forget his name, but that newsreader who cries on TV has reportedly made $3 million out of the moment should also be cited. An alcoholic born again Christian who is now rich.

[Pangloss]

So you would expect racists to admit to being racist? If I had $ for every time a racist has sworn not to be racist I would be a rich man.

 

I wasn't suggesting that that figure spoke to the accuracy of the assessment, I suggested that it showed a difference in perception between two groups of people.

[Moontanman]

Voter intimidation is governed by federal law. But I think you mean just that his comment wasn't actionable because he wasn't actually threatening Moon, right? I agree that it's more insulting than directly threatening, but like I said it's probably not the only comment that gentleman has made to people at that polling place today. Reporting the incident gives the authorities a reason to investigate. Other people may have had trouble with that person or at that polling place.

 

If nothing else, authorities could be positioned in the area in an effort to reduce the problem.

 

I think they old boy was more pissed he had misjudged me so badly than actually threatening me.

 

Is it less disturbing when a labor union does it?

 

If anything that is even creepier.

[Pangloss]

BBC news reports.

 

Some of their members/supporters have said really stupid things. Also the more public members seem quite undesirable to me

 

 

• Christine O'Donnell, the witch that says I am not allowed a wan*k.
  
• Sarah Palin, she wants creationism taught in public schools.
  

 

I forget his name, but that newsreader who cries on TV has reportedly made $3 million out of the moment should also be cited. An alcoholic born again Christian who is now rich.

 

Okay, so you're saying that your assessment is based on news accounts, not personal interactions.

 

I think this speaks directly to my point about SFN members happily supporting the exact same behavior that they accuse Fox News of perpetrating on the right.

[A Tripolation]

So you have met one intelligent person who identifies with the tea party movement. I would suggest that you've met at least one other reasonably intelligent person who identifies with the tea party movement, but we'll set that aside for the moment.

 

How much time did you spend encountering tea party groups "where you live"?

 

Yes. Only one. His name was Thomas. He mainly believed in their theory of fiscal conservativeness and balanced budgets. Though I personally believe credit is the lifeblood of a national budget (credit within reasonable limits), he laid out well-spoken arguments for completely balance budgets. I respected him. The rest told me I shouldn't associate with 'damn liberals'.

 

And I live in Kentucky. I'm pretty much stopped by one Rand Paul activist a day at the drugstore where I work. They're generally older people. And they are homophobic because they are Southern Baptists, and they believe being gay is a choice and you're wanting to defy God with that choice. And they are semi-racist because that is how they were raised. Even my own grandmother supports Rand Paul. And yes, she thinks it's a mortal sin to be gay, and has no respect for black people.

 

I think I have more of a right to pass qualitative judgments based on experiences on the TEA Party than any other person on this site. I'm a moderate living in a rural area where Obama is practically synonymous with Satan.

 

Around here most of the 'tea party" I've actually talked to one on one really didn't seem to understand the issues, and mostly just spout F.U.D.s and vague notions of taking "it" back.

 

Funny you should say that, around here many if not most churches issue sample ballots with the churches choices of who should be in office filled out. This is quite common here, Churches do their best to tell their members who to vote for. This is the most disturbing thing to me.

 

Every time I start to drift toward being a Conservative I meet one personally and I come to my senses.

 

I agree. A lot of TEA party people do not understand what they want. They are simply angry.

And yes, it's appalling that churches do that. Jesus spoke of not meddling with politics because it corrupts.

[ajb]

Churches do their best to tell their members who to vote for. This is the most disturbing thing to me.

 

Isn't the separation of church and state part of the constitution? (or am I mistaken on that)

 

Okay, so you're saying that your assessment is based on news accounts, not personal interactions.

 

I am not in the US nor am I politically active, so the news and newspapers (who often have their own agenda) is indeed the main source of my information on this matter.

[Pangloss]

BBC news reports.

 

Some of their members/supporters have said really stupid things. Also the more public members seem quite undesirable to me

 

 

• Christine O'Donnell, the witch that says I am not allowed a wan*k.
  
• Sarah Palin, she wants creationism taught in public schools.
  

 

I forget his name, but that newsreader who cries on TV has reportedly made $3 million out of the moment should also be cited. An alcoholic born again Christian who is now rich.

 

Let's take a look at how accurate that perception is. Turns out we have actual research on the subject, conducted by a graduate student at UCLA.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/13/AR2010101303634.html?hpid=topnews

 

A new analysis of political signs displayed at a tea party rally in Washington last month reveals that the vast majority of activists expressed narrow concerns about the government's economic and spending policies and steered clear of the racially charged anti-Obama messages that have helped define some media coverage of such events.

 

There were uglier messages, too - including "Obama Bin Lyin' - Impeach Now" and "Somewhere in Kenya a Village is Missing its Idiot." But Ekins's analysis showed that only about a quarter of all signs reflected direct anger with Obama. Only 5 percent of the total mentioned the president's race or religion, and slightly more than 1 percent questioned his American citizenship.

 

So basically you're supporting the concept of taking a small percentage of the total and then leveraging that to make a broad, sweeping generalization that does not appear to be accurate.

 

Kinda like SFN members regularly berate Fox News for doing to the left.

[A Tripolation]

Isn't the separation of church and state part of the constitution? (or am I mistaken on that)

 

That's taking that implied clause a bit too far. Churches are free to do whatever they please, so long as it's legal. They're simply being hypocritical.

Edited November 2, 2010 by A Tripolation

[Pangloss]

I am not in the US nor am I politically active, so the news and newspapers (who often have their own agenda) is indeed the main source of my information on this matter.

 

Right, so you're not in the US and have had zero exposure to the tea party movement in person, and yet you had no problem stating earlier: "From what I can gather the Tea Party is a homophobic, racist, Christian group who look back in history to an America that never was."

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I think this outcome is absolutely understandable. We like to think around here that we're smarter than the average bear, but clearly intelligence does not automatically produce immunity to the influence of bias.

[ajb]

So basically you're supporting the concept of taking a small percentage of the total and then leveraging that to make a broad, sweeping generalization that does not appear to be accurate.

 

OK, so the racism is not really a large part of the Tea Party, you can certainly argue that.

 

They do still seem undesirable to me.

 

Right, so you're not in the US and have had zero exposure to the tea party movement in person, and yet you had no problem stating earlier: "From what I can gather the Tea Party is a homophobic, racist, Christian group who look back in history to an America that never was."

 

Via my small exposure to them via the media I can honesty say that I have not "warmed to them". Then again, maybe I was never supposed to, I cannot participate in American elections. However, the entire world is watching...

[Moontanman]

I think it's interesting to note that local school board republicans, who have embraced the tea party movement, are in trouble at the moment because they have managed to re-segregate local schools. It has turned into a big deal because the segregation of the local schools has resulted in the loss of badly needed federal funding.

 

Now they are all running around saying it was accidental and that separation of black and whites in local schools was not the intent of redistricting.

[Sisyphus]

I think that "racist" is a huge oversimplification, and I'm sure most tea partiers don't think of themselves as racist. And I think that calling them that doesn't help anything - since they don't consider themselves racist, being accused of racism just makes them think their opponents are foolish and/or trying to bully them into silence.

 

All that said, I don't think it's entirely wrong. It's an angry populist movement of "the real America" to "take our country back." I think it's more about culture and class and anger/fear of change than it is about race (or, you know, policy), and I think the mentality is flavored with and has a lot in common with racism.

[jackson33]

I'm going to assume this guy was an aberration, it's difficult to imagine large numbers of people with his attitude.[/Quote]

 

Moon, not only an aberration but he was breaking the law, campaigning in a voting location. There were no doubt poll watchers there which would have booted him from the location. Keep in mind however it works both ways and the New Black Panther" case was just one example.

 

From what I can gather the Tea Party is a homophobic, racist, Christian group who look back in history to an America that never was.[/Quote]

 

ajb; I'm sure there are homophobes, racist in any group of people and most people in the US are Christian, probably more calling themselves Democrat than anything else.

If the history of America never was, where did the founders come up with the ideas we still try to follow?

 

Of course it's fallacious to generalize, but... I've only met one intelligent Tea Party-er.[/Quote]

 

Trip, you might question the folks who your hanging around with. I'm sure if you met Palin, Rubio, O'Donnell or the some of the millions involved with that group you would find them very intelligent, maybe having different political viewpoints.

 

Thread; Those in the Tea Party, claims to support A Literal Constitution, Fiscal Responsibility, Free Market Capitalism and the stupid idea Government works at the will of the people. Each in their own way may support or oppose any single policy and are members of all parties. Moon simply ran into a person, probably promoting his own views, not the movement.