Ubuntu now easier than Windows?

[CaptainPanic]

Since about 4 months, I run Ubuntu 10.4, which is the LTS (long term support) version.

 

- Downloading went really fast. It's officially free, so there's no hassle with payments. Just click & download. Then burn it on a CD... and be done.

- Installation was really easy (choosing a partition is the hardest thing - for the rest you just need to answer some really simple questions - and I don't even choose a partition, I just disconnect my data harddrive, and use the entire main harddrive for my ubuntu).

- The installation came with a number of programs which are easy to use.

- The drivers for my graphic card are not free, so I had to install those separately - just an automatic install though.

- I still required some new plugins (like flash) which did not come pre-installed, but when I needed one, I got a popup, and from there it was just automatic download & install. 30 seconds as most.

- I wanted a few extra programs (other music and video player, another text editor, etc) , but I could choose those from a dropdown menu, and download & install. Everything worked.

 

Is Ubuntu finally easier to use than Windows? Or am I the only lucky one who had no problems with the latest versions.

[timo]

I don't think you are particularly lucky. I did several installations of Ubuntu variants on different computers and did, except for the WLAN not being detected properly, not experience any problems. But installing Windows doesn't seem to be any more trouble than installing the Ubuntus, either. The only advantage of Linux I see (from the ease-of-usage point of view) is when you need quite a lot of standard extra programs. Installing them via packet managers is much more convenient than downloading installers from a variety of webpages or juggling around with CDs/DVDs. I'm not sure to what extent that would count as the OS itself being "easier to use", though.

[Xittenn]

I had found myself running into a number of problems while under the Ubuntu OS.

 

The first problem I would like to note here, as it is directly related to the ease of use issue, is the continued need to use command line for many lower level processes. Honestly it's been six months since I used Ubuntu last so I can not for the life of me remember what these processes and configurations were but I found it rather trialing. I remember one thing being that I had to run command line to gain admin type access to programs such as the equivalent notepad. I also found it a little annoying having to have to use sudo constantly to mock root terminal.

 

The second problem I found while running under Ubuntu was the occasional lock up of my computer. I don't know why this happened but it did and often enough for me to be bothered by it.

 

The third problem I found deals with limited driver support. I had some issues when upgrading my video card to the HD5770 under Ubuntu and found that there were some smallish issues with driver support. ATI being a leading manufacturer of video cards one would suspect drivers to be readily available and fully functional. I would hate to have to constantly check for driver support under any OS.

 

I must say Ubuntu wasn't completely horrible though youtube browsing was a little fugly. When comparing to my very sleek and stylish home edition of Windows 7 I must say Ubuntu looked and performed in a manner which, in my humble opinion, was a little dated. I personally have never found the reason to switch from Windows. I don't feel Ubuntu is currently a strong competitor against my current OS and I don't feel any open licensed OS meant for home use will ever out perform a commercial product. There are definite uses for the Unix/Linux sets of operating systems, I don't however feel that home use is currently one of them. Ubuntu is definitely a decent package that will bring a little joy into the hearts of many M$ nay sayers and for that bravo! \o/

[walshy155]

I have version 9.10 and 10.10, both non burned, I still prefer windows, as most of the software market is based for windows.

[Mr Skeptic]

Personally, I've found Ubuntu easier to install by far compared to Windows XP. I liked its usability better too, especially the part where I can copy paste with two clicks total (one to select and a second to paste, unlike windows where you have to select, copy via keyboard/right click and select copy, pick a location, and paste via keyboard/right click and select paste. Select and middle click is so much easier, and if I have to do a lot of copy/pasting I really want to use Linux. I do an awful lot of that when coding.

 

As for troubles, both gave me the about same amount of troubles (except for viruses/malware of course). I do love the packet manager though; its an awesome way to install, keep track of, and update a lot of programs, compared to the disaster of files everywhere with Windows + registry.

 

However, the killer is that all the games I want to play are mostly windows only. As for Windows 7, I'll install it when my XP breaks or they make games I want to play for it only (I knew enough to stay away from Vista, telling my friends I'd install it when Microsoft changed its name ). I guess that's another plus for Ubuntu, not having to worry about a profit motive, such as intentional introduction of forward incompatibility forcing people to upgrade.

 

---

 

I had found myself running into a number of problems while under the Ubuntu OS.

 

The first problem I would like to note here, as it is directly related to the ease of use issue, is the continued need to use command line for many lower level processes. Honestly it's been six months since I used Ubuntu last so I can not for the life of me remember what these processes and configurations were but I found it rather trialing. I remember one thing being that I had to run command line to gain admin type access to programs such as the equivalent notepad. I also found it a little annoying having to have to use sudo constantly to mock root terminal.

 

You shouldn't have to use root access to use a text editor. However, if you are trying to edit files your user does not have permission to access then you need to use root access. This is intentional and as easy to use as possible, under the circumstances. Your home folder and probably everything in it belongs to your user and should be editable without root access. If you want to constantly use a file or folder elsewhere, you'd probably be better off giving your user write access to it (or ownership), else you have to edit it as root.

[PhDP]

I don't know if it's easier, but it's certainly improving faster than any other OS. I tried all versions of Ubuntu since 7.10 and, especially since 10.04, it has been improving very quickly. In 10.10 it's possible to get flash/mp3 support by clicking an option in the installer, and the Ubuntu Software Center can do pretty much everything (installing deb files, packages, ...).

 

It's true that Windows support more software, but in science it's not true, especially in physics and scientific computing. Even 'R' doesn't work 100% on Windows, and I get to use the free Intel compiler

[agentrnge]

I just gave Ubuntu a shot. The new shiny v10.10. I am liking it. I previously ran with slackware on my server and windows on my workstation/gamer. Ubuntu has replaced windows for the workstation. It was not without troubles getting it installed. But worth the time I spent. It was mostly due to flaky APIC stuff durring install. Dissabled/Install/Re-enable. All good. Ubuntu is the least UNIX like of any distro ive used. But thats fine. Its got the unixy stuff there and all available, but it seems you can do just about everything without touching a cli. And if you are sick of sudoing all the time.. Just sudo passwd root and create an actual root password. But.. its ot at all a good idea to just run as root all day long tho if that's what you were thinking ( Xitten )

 

Its worth it for any person of science to learn their way around a unix/linux system. Its always good to have under your belt. And yes, there are great science tools, programming languages, testing environments out there that are built for unix on that just dont translate correctly to a windows environment.

[Xittenn]

 

Just sudo passwd root and create an actual root password. But.. its ot at all a good idea to just run as root all day long tho if that's what you were thinking ( Xitten )

 

 

 

No! I was thinking wow I love 'Shell Extensions' and 'Run As Administrator' thank you Microsoft for making my life so much prettier, happier and easier and for allowing me to spend more time on what really matters like programming scientific computing engines and playing StarCraft II.

 

I love you M$ I wish to have your babies ...

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

"sudo" is "Run as Administrator". Now, it's not in the right-click context menu, but that's why PolicyKit exists:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolicyKit

 

Applications can just ask for the administrator password when necessary to perform certain actions. It's become very common in newer Linux setups.

[Klaynos]

To give a bit of context, my Dad was amazed when he found out that his mobile phone had a calendar in it... After owning the phone for about 5 years he still has no idea how to operate it. He has now been using ubuntu for about a year and other than the nearly weekly "how do I create a new folder" question he uses it perfectly fine for photos, email, web browsing and some general office tasks....

 

I find I'm generally in a bad place to judge whether it is easier or not as I've been using it for years now... I have noticed I'm not as good at fixing it any more though, because well I've not needed to in a long time...

[Xittenn]

 

I don't know, if it got any simpler it would be sickening. I may have opened control panel a half a dozen times in the last year. Windows 7 has to be the sexiest experience I have ever had with an operating system. I really did give Ubuntu a try but I couldn't get passed all the drop down menus and the icons used to represent everything in the folders. My eyes were pained as of my last attempt which was only six months ago. I'm not saying Ubuntu is horrible but I can't see how anyone would say it is better. I am posting my Win7 desktop here which is where most of my decision making is done in preparation for running an actual application. I would like to see a comparison done

 

my notes

 

1) Icon based task bar(as I have chosen) with user optional text that never seems to clutter or look unkempt

 

2) Customizable Start Menu with list of quick links as well as a more complete and still customizable list of available programs ... not to mention customizable hotlinks to popular destinations like the downloads folder

 

3) Really perky themes with sexy translucent frames

 

4) MS Config(not shown) which allows easy access to lists of programs that will execute on start up (no command line required) and a very well laid out control panel with lots of pretty icons pointing me towards my destination

 

5) The very sheek way that Windows does not try to make all software free and encourages the payment of those who have worked hard to make a great product thereby allowing us the consumer the really cool opportunity of going out shopping and buying pretty packages as opposed to downloading off of some arcane list with less than enthusiastic descriptions :/

 

6) There's more .... but I'm busy doing real things other than worrying about my OS and wondering if it is better than the rest

 

I'm really not advocating here it's just a debate I never understood ... 'cause Windows is so teh win \o/

 

o.o

 

Just as a side note XChat is a licensed copy and God help me if I never get rid of Open Office ... GIMP is doing ok but Photoshop would be ideal.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Xittenn

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I see your sexy and raise you extra sexy:

 

 

Gnome Shell 3, coming soon to a Linux near you.

 

Ubuntu 10.10 also includes the Software Center, which now allows for paid packages as well as Open Source, although I hardly think you can argue that paying is an advantage. And, of course, by using a package management system you get one central place for all your software updates, and you're not nagged incessantly by Adobe, Apple, Windows, Firefox, Java, your antivirus, and programs you don't remember installing for important updates.

[PhDP]

I'm not saying Ubuntu is horrible but I can't see how anyone would say it is better.

 

While Ubuntu is improving a lot, I wouldn't say it's better than the other OS (yet), but for science and programming it is. Several scientific libraries just won't work on Windows, or are such a pain to install. I don't want to spend hours trying to install plplot or doxygen when I can do it with a simple click on Ubuntu (and pretty much any Linux distribution).

 

There's more .... but I'm busy doing real things other than worrying about my OS and wondering if it is better than the rest

 

Fair enough.

 

I really hope that Ubuntu, or some other open-source operating system, will eventually replace Windows. I use proprietary software every day (on Linux) and I don't believe in the supremacy of open-source over proprietary software. Both have their strengths, and I'm always happy to see a diverse array of approaches and products. On the other hand, proprietary operating systems cause huge problems. It gives way too much power to a company, and of course they use this power to push their own product and ruin their competitor's software (e.g.: Microsoft's "embrace, extend and extinguish" philosophy).

 

Mac OS X is even worst, as they control both the operating system (much of it anyway) and the hardware.

Edited January 8, 2011 by PhDP

[A Tripolation]

I see your sexy and raise you extra sexy:

 

 

Gnome Shell 3, coming soon to a Linux near you.

 

Ubuntu 10.10 also includes the Software Center, which now allows for paid packages as well as Open Source, although I hardly think you can argue that paying is an advantage. And, of course, by using a package management system you get one central place for all your software updates, and you're not nagged incessantly by Adobe, Apple, Windows, Firefox, Java, your antivirus, and programs you don't remember installing for important updates.

 

Holy crap Cap'n. That's gorgeous!

When will this be released? And can normal people use it without crying?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

That's scheduled for sometime this year -- probably around April, if you believe their estimates.

[khaled]

Mac OS X is even worst, as they control both the operating system (much of it anyway) and the hardware.

 

Mac's new operating systems are something different ...

 

take a look at their Machine's Instruction Set,

 

www.stat.uchicago.edu/~thisted/Distribute/comparch.pdf

 

also, apple company have a full division of experts for one thing, .. can you guess without looking at the spoiler ?

 

Usability

 

 

SEE

Edited January 20, 2011 by khaled

[Xittenn]

I feel I wish to add some points to this topic to maybe add some perspective on the matter. I must note that all of which I will be discussing is Fedora specific. I may be wrong in assuming that it is pretty much the same thing and if so correct me. Until then I will assume my assumption to be valid!

 

For starters I needed to install Fedora and to do this I created live media on a USB drive and this had its problems and I do believe I may have either contracted a virus not detected or just faulty software. I will not blame any Linux distro for the necessities wherein installation is concerned. I will also not place blame on Linux distros for the time I had to spend to adequately set up my partitions(which two of my four main were required ???????) or boot sequences(which I now boot to windows unless I plug in my key in where I boot to the selection menu for live media and choose the HDD for which I have a modified entry.)

 

Upon finally stabilizing a system, after some eighteen hours and several re-installations, I finally did manage to install my very OS(Fedora) specific graphics accelerator drivers(happily with an OpenCL distro.) There is a lot of talk about the wonderful fairy land that which is Linux where all computers are made equal and yet it is not even specified that a Linux driver may not be for your Linux system even if the kernel is the same. Will this benefit me in terms of graphical realisation on my desktop? As of yet no and I do continue to reminisce of the days of earlier macs circa 1995 ....

 

Now comes the fun part. I wish to install Rosetta Commons and it is distributed not as binaries but as source. This is understandable it is elusive type software used by graduates and engineers. Do you have to be a rocket scientist? Yeah kind of sort of .... but here comes the fun part. If you have never programmed for a Linux system like myself you soon discover that the -Wall of text for which no testing is assumed during build is not only restricted to the source you wish to compile but for the compiler you wish to compile with as compiling the compiler may soon become necessary. Fact, all Linux systems are distributed with a gcc compiler suite! This may be an issue when the one distributed with the system is the newest release and isn't even being used by developers. So how do you get an older version installed. Well if you are lucky that hidden gem of a compatibility compiler repo file will have been compiled with your version of the OS in mind for which Fedora has 14 .... If not you must learn how to compile the compiler and this may require several attempts especially for us nubs.

 

So you finally get a compiler compiled and well for the fifteenth time that source code fails to compile anyway. So you try another and another .... And some might say here, "well this doesn't reflect on the OS you are using", oh but it does! Especially when almost everything you do will be in text format and you will have millions of lines of this text to watch and hope and pray that this time there will finally be success. The reward? Well for this one very discerning circumstance the reward is, and only if it compiles, some very developed highly costly software for the very nice price of aggravation ..... Too bad I know nothing about folding proteins

 

I'm just saying it isn't easy in any way shape or form. Maybe if it is as simple as watching youtube and getting mail, ok. I have used Open Office and have waisted a lot of time and getting it to not fail for my purposes and it was a long and tedious moment.

 

ThermoDynamicMover was just compiled, this means I'm further than I was last time ...

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Sounds like a Rosetta Commons problem. The vast majority of Linux software is distributed through the package managers, and comes pre-compiled. Installing takes a minute or two. You shouldn't be compiling the majority of your programs unless you're on Gentoo.

[Xittenn]

Sounds like a Rosetta Commons problem. The vast majority of Linux software is distributed through the package managers, and comes pre-compiled. Installing takes a minute or two. You shouldn't be compiling the majority of your programs unless you're on Gentoo.

 

I disagree! I mean if you just start with the flexibility in gaming of which Linux based systems are rather not and work your way over to the developer environment. My question is who is doing it for the general public? They all have to be built individually for every version of every compiler and kernel and distro and it's a bit of a mess, but this is just my opinion.

 

Rosetta Commons is the exception because it is not general public software it is meant for academics at a higher level. It was recommended in one of my texts on my shelf which is why I'm so eager to install it. It did not make it through the build ... again ... but it did get a lot further.

 

I guess for me it's a lot of the little things really. Even when I do have to write a makefile or do a makefile project in Windows I don't become lost. Having to switch between terminal and editor and having to remember five million key combinations and subtleties will drive me nuts eventually. And the human interface in general where colour schemes and mouse granularity are concerned are rather oppressive to me; I like ribbons, give me ribbons. I will concede to just do and quit complaining though because its something I'm finding is going to be necessary for me to survive in certain markets and that extends to certain industrial applications I may be facing.

 

I had read an article once about Unix and it was back in, again, the early 90s .... It said if Unix was like an airliner all the passengers would bring one piece of the plane to the runway assemble it and hope that something didn't break. I'm not very good with my hands and most things I touch will fall apart in the end

 

I like Windows :/

Edited January 31, 2011 by Xittenn

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Most things don't have to be built individually for specific compiler versions; that's just sloppy programming. General userland packages are distributed as precompiled binaries as well. Systems such as Gentoo distribute source packages, but pre-adjusted so they work with the distributed compilers and libraries, so you don't have to fight the system. It's only when you download third-party packages that you have trouble, and that's not the distribution's fault at all.

 

User interface is a matter of preference. I tend to like working on the command line for certain tasks. There are certainly plenty of graphical editors and systems available for Linux if you just check your package manager.

[Xittenn]

Most things don't have to be built individually for specific compiler versions; that's just sloppy programming. General userland packages are distributed as precompiled binaries as well. Systems such as Gentoo distribute source packages, but pre-adjusted so they work with the distributed compilers and libraries, so you don't have to fight the system. It's only when you download third-party packages that you have trouble, and that's not the distribution's fault at all.

 

User interface is a matter of preference. I tend to like working on the command line for certain tasks. There are certainly plenty of graphical editors and systems available for Linux if you just check your package manager.

 

I was going to get Vim ... I will have to take your word on the compiler issues it's not something I would assume to think about. I was thinking of switching down to compiler error level four but the last error I received was a python scons error so it wasn't even gcc this time.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Xittenn

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

You should probably check with the Rosetta people; they may know how to compile it with newer versions.

 

Vim is keyboard-heavy. If you don't like that, try something like Code::Blocks, Eclipse, KDevelop, and so on. gedit is a decent text editor if you don't need an IDE.

 

But, of course, the real Linux users will tell you otherwise:

 

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24109/c-ide-for-linux

 

They have a point. The command-line apps like gdb, gcc, make, and so on have tremendous flexibility, and with shell scripting you can do just about anything. It's worthwhile to take some time to learn your system.

[Xittenn]

Yeah I've read that one a few times now. I think I will be deploying project builds with scons, it is a little more up to date then make.

 

I didn't have the ability to check with the Rosetta people until my account cleared. This just happened to occur at the same time as I realised why the build was breaking and so I posted my solution. I wish Rosetta was a graphical program root up but in the time honoured nix tradition it is text based with a rendered result(I think it has renders, pretty sure.) Oh well I'll just have to learn FASTA until I get my own software to a better place. Looking at their code I think I will be getting there sooner than anticipated. I'll be sure to work in both environments, I mean who says nix is restricted to the command line, right?

[khaled]

Yeah I've read that one a few times now. I think I will be deploying project builds with scons, it is a little more up to date then make.

 

I didn't have the ability to check with the Rosetta people until my account cleared. This just happened to occur at the same time as I realised why the build was breaking and so I posted my solution. I wish Rosetta was a graphical program root up but in the time honoured nix tradition it is text based with a rendered result(I think it has renders, pretty sure.) Oh well I'll just have to learn FASTA until I get my own software to a better place. Looking at their code I think I will be getting there sooner than anticipated. I'll be sure to work in both environments, I mean who says nix is restricted to the command line, right?

 

go to my thread: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/54475-linux-have-everything-you-need/

Edited January 31, 2011 by khaled