Element collecting

[blackout]

You can isolate the radical of a salt by it's oxidation.

For example, dissolve NaBr in hydrogen peroxide dans add some conc. sulfuric acid. The reaction will be exothermic. A distillation setup can be used. For isolating I2 from KI, you could use HCl...

[budullewraagh]

no, you need to acidify, THEN use the peroxide

[jdurg]

I also don't think that mixing HCl and a solution of KI will result in the production of a hell of a lot of iodine as HCl is not a very good oxidizer.

[budullewraagh]

it will result in HI and KCl. the HI+H2O2 will result in I2 and H2O

[jdurg]

But if this is done is solution the HI will immediately dissolve and form iodide and hydrogen ions. As a result, there won't be much production of iodine at all. People tend to forget that the hydrohalic acids are VERY water soluble. So unless you are generating them from an anhydrous salt, a good deal will dissolve into water and form the ions again.

[budullewraagh]

i know how soluble hydrohalic acids are in water. i also know that you can oxidize hydroiodic acid with hydrogen peroxide

[MulderMan]

just got sulphur today, nothing to call home about though, just plain old sulphur.

[Mendelejev]

just got sulphur today, nothing to call home about though, just plain old sulphur.

 

GREAT ! I've also got my first elements today : Nickel, Lithium, Zinc, Mercury, Iron, Bismuth and Magnesium. And everything completely FREE !!!! But the samples are really small (about 3 mm large) !! So, I'm still looking for bigger samples.

[jdurg]

Congrats guys! Don't poo-pooh sulfur. It's actually pretty neat stuff that you can have some fun with. (Melting the stuff is pretty neat as long as you don't breathe in the fumes coming off of it).

 

As for the size of the samples, don't worry, you'll eventually upgrade. I didn't start out my collection with massive sample sizes. Nearly ALL of my elements started out as tiny little specimens which I eventually was able to get larger sizes of. Every now and then I'd just be looking around and find a great deal on an element, and pick it up right there. That was how I got my Rhodium. I found an auction for nearly 20 grams of the stuff on E-Bay. I just said 'I want it' and kept bidding until I had it won. It was only afterwards that I realized just how much money I was going to be dishing out. Thankfully, the seller agreed to just sell me the one large 10+ gram button of it and he'd sell the other smaller pieces elsewhere. (I then came to find out that the deal worked out great for him since he was able to get more by selling the other pieces separately). So just be observant and you'll find that elements will seem to find you and not the other way around.

 

Another big thing to remember is to make sure you know what you're buying. When I first got into this strange hobby, I purchased on instinct thinking that every element out there would soon be gone and I could never find it again. As a result, I probably spent a good deal more money than I actually needed to. If something gets out of your price range, don't worry, you'll eventually find it again. Also, make sure you don't buy too much. When I bought my sodium, I kind of forgot how the metal is VERY not dense. I had been buying some PGMs which tend to be quite dense, so when I saw the Na for sale I quickly bought two ounces. I didn't realize that two ounces of Na is a LOT until it arrived and I had to find a way to safely store it. My neighbors have been giving me weird looks as I 'get rid of' the excess Na by throwing it on the lawn and turning the water hose onto it. (What was really neat was throwing small chunks out there during the winter onto the snow piles. Boy does Na give off a bright yellow color when it catches fire). Still, even with all the time I've spent chucking the stuff, I have a great deal of it yet to get rid of. So make sure that you have your head on when doing purchases, and don't worry about the sample size. You can always upgrade later.

[entropydave]

...I'd like to get some Ra but not a bunch of watch hands from the 1940s!!! Any ideas?

I like the way the Curies had test tubes full of polonium salts and soem fluorescent stuff (a Zn compound?) and would entertain their guests with the 'eerie glow'.

In fact, wouldn't mind some Po, but the spark plugs that had it as part of their contacts (ionized the air so it would 'spark' easier was the logic) have all now decayed to daughter products....!

[jdurg]

Did you also notice how the Curies died from their radiation poisoning? I'm also pretty certain that the health of their 'friends' after being exposed to the eerie glow didn't turn out so well.

 

If you're thinking about getting pure radium metal, you can't unless you have a license. One gram of the stuff is INTENSELY radioactive in terms of disintegration rate and energy emitted during the decay. As a result, massive NRC and other licenses are required to obtain a sample of the pure metal. In the watch hands, microgram quantities of radium are used. Fleetingly small amounts are enough to make the watch glow for centuries.

[budullewraagh]

no, pierre was hit by a carraige while crossing the pont neuf. but yeah, he was dying from radiation, thats true

[collector]

I would certainly mind a piece of Po!!!

 

The isotope Po 210 has a half life of 138 days, therefore is incredibly radioactive.

But it also has a high vapour pressure (high for metals), slowly sublimes, and heavily contaminates almost any surface in the surrounding.

 

It is incredibly "dirty" and dangerous in this respect.

According to webelements: "Weight for weight it is about 2.5 x 10^11 times as toxic as hydrocyanic acid (HCN)."

 

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Po/key.html

[collector]

A question for jdurg.

 

In your article about phosphorus (chemicalforums) you mentioned that a piece of black phosphorus spontaneously transforms to violet phosphorus, and that nothing can stop this transformation.

 

But black phosphorus is said to be the only stable modification of phosphorus (at room temp and atmospheric pressure). By definition of stability, this should imply that black phosphorus does NOT undergo spontaneous transformation to other modifications.

 

I don´t get it; is black phosphorus stable or not?

[entropydave]

Did you also notice how the Curies died from their radiation poisoning? I'm also pretty certain that the health of their 'friends' after being exposed to the eerie glow didn't turn out so well.

 

If you're thinking about getting pure radium metal' date=' you can't unless you have a license. One gram of the stuff is INTENSELY radioactive in terms of disintegration rate and energy emitted during the decay. As a result, massive NRC and other licenses are required to obtain a sample of the pure metal. In the watch hands, microgram quantities of radium are used. Fleetingly small amounts are enough to make the watch glow for centuries.[/quote']

not only that, they had nasty non-healing burns on them from holdingthis stuff in their pockets.

But, I am not aware that Mme Curie died specifically of radiation poisoning - she lived (I think) to about 75 and died of kidney issues - no doubt not helped and brought on by radiation and by heavy metal ingestion, but not specifically from radiation poisoning. But I do stand to be corrected on this, of course...! I know that their notebooks are still inaccessible due to their contamination and will be like that for about 25,000 years....!

 

No, I know that pure Ra is VERY nasty and not a hope of getting a milligram of RaCl for example - but who'd want that around..... imagine dropping on the floor!

Isn't Promethium self-fissile at quantities >3mg? Pretty horrible (but fascinating) too!!!

 

Dammit! Who wants to be immortal anyway? MAybe I should buy a bunch of old watch hands, macerate them in water, and do some fractional distillation on the stuff. My wife, kids and cats would really appreciate that!!

 

[jdurg]

With black phosphorus, the P atoms are bound to each other in a manner VERY similar to carbon. Hence Black-P is able to somewhat conduct electricty, and has physical properties similar to that of graphite. The thing is, if the crystal structure that makes up Black-P is disturbed, it can fall apart into an amorphous structure which is what Red-P is made from. Over time, this slowly happens due to temperature changes, physical stresses, pressure changes, etc. etc. So the pure Black-P starts to break down in certain areas and the black-gray color shows a little bit of red in it, and the 'sheen' of the Black-P becomes a bit different. Violet-P is kind of a homogenous mixture of the crystalline structure of Black-P and the amorphous structure of Red-P. It's mixed quite evenly so the entire thing looks like a VERY dark red/black color. The conversion process takes place VERY slowly, and generally speaking isn't that noticeable unless there are constant changes in temperature and pressure. (It's certainly not as long term of a change as diamond changing back into graphite is). As a result, most people would state that Black-P is 'stable'. (This is kind of a problem when the term 'stable' is used to describe something). Black phosphorus will definitely convert over into other allotropes if subjected to drastic changes in temperature. (Most notabley an elevation in temperature).

[budullewraagh]

(see my image, already posted)

 

1] High vapor pressure at room temperatures, [2] heat at 540 C,

 

[3] heat at 550 C,

 

[4] heat at 600 C,

 

[5] heat at 125 C,

 

[6] heat at 400 C,

 

[7] heat at 550 C,

 

[8] heat at 300 C at 8000 atm,

 

[9] heat at 380 C with Hg or above 250 C at 12 kb,

 

[10] heat at 400 C with Hg for days,

 

[11] heat at 200 C at 12000 atm,

 

[12] heat at 200 C at 15000 atm,

 

[13] heat at 200 C at 12000 atm,

 

[14] reversible trasition 50-100 kb,

 

[15] reversible transition 110 kb,

 

[16] recrystallize from molten Pb,

 

[17] heat a PBr3 solution,

 

[18] reversible transition at 900 C,

 

[19] reversible transition at 1700 C,

 

[20] reversible transition at low pressure,

 

[21] reversible transition at 44.1 C (but can supercool),

 

[22] reversible transition at -77C or +64 under 1200 atm,

 

[23] sublime under vacuum,

 

[24] heat at 220 C at 12 kb,

 

[25] irradiate with UV at -190 C,

 

[26] condensation of P2 vapor at -196 C,

 

[27] heat above -100 C,

 

[28] heat at low pressure,

 

[29] boils at 280 C,

 

[30] heat at 300 C or expose to light or X-rays,

 

[31] melt about 600 C

[jdurg]

Thank you for putting the meanings behind those numbers in there. It was starting to drive me nuts trying to figure out what they were.

[budullewraagh]

haha, yeah im sorry.

 

they arent mentioned above, but ive heard of orange as well as blue phosphorus, both of which are incredibly rare and poorly documented

[Guest tialtnga]

Hi jdurg,

 

This made me smile ;-)

 

<I>When I first got into this strange hobby, I purchased on instinct thinking that every element out there would soon be gone and I could never find it again. As a result, I probably spent a good deal more money than I actually needed to. If something gets out of your price range, don't worry, you'll eventually find it again. </I>

 

Yes indeed! I have had a couple of duff deals behind me. I remember some Red Phosphorus coming up on Ebay and the excitement got the better of me. £70 for 100g actually seemed like a good deal until kno3.com started doing it for £20!!!

Naturally I "averaged down" my price by buying some more ;-)

 

Palladium tricked me twice!! Firstly I put in an order to a dealer in the states and heard nothing for 6 weeks - (They hadn't debited my credit card or anything) so I ordered a second 1oz bar at a lower price from the UK. Bugger me a couple of days later the first bar arrived in the post. If I had waited another couple of months I could have spent $220 for 1oz. I had spent $350 and $320 for my two!!

 

This week I have just ordered a polished vanadium disc from smart elements so I'm looking foreward to getting that. Does anyone know why pure Vanadium is so expensive?

 

Regards,

Simon.

[Mendelejev]

I've just got the oxides of the lanthanides. Could I make some europium (for example) with europium(III)oxide (with electrolysis or ...) ??? Or would a thermite reaction be a possible method ?

[budullewraagh]

a thermite would work. electrolysis would work if you converted it to a halide for example.

[Mendelejev]

Mmm, converting it to a halide ... with hydrochloric acid ? would that work ?

 

Eu2O3 + 6 HCl -> 2 EuCl3 + 3 H20

 

This would be a good solution for electrolysis.

[akcapr]

I just made a blob of zinc from pennies. I poured molten Zn into water. its about 5.5 cm wide, and weight 57.8 grams, and really pure.I think it is pretty cool.

P.S: if anyone want to buy it for a collection or watever, ill be happy to sell it really cheap just offer the price. heres a picture:

[BenSon]

I did a similar thing but i moulded it into a 15g approx button

 

~Scott