A MISSION FROM GOD

[lemur]

If you have read or seen the news today, you surely saw the article of a young teenager who killed himself after holding his friends and classmates hostage for several hours. How do we equate such tragedy with what is going on in the guerilla warfare arena? This kid was sick and suddently realized that his craziness was more than dismissive. Why? Had he killed even one of these classmates in this fit of depression, forgive me; but sane or insane; or had he even been my own son, I would have demanded swift and total retribution. And should it happen, that would apply doubly to yours truely!

You have to be careful watching the news. TV media tends to be very sensational and aims to provoke emotional responses by running dramatic stories and emphasizing the shock value with provocative commentary. The result is that people get into an emotional frenzy and they become aggressively hostile toward whomever they associate with the threat they fear. During the time of 9/11, it was muslims even though Bush explicitly exonerated terrorism from having Islam as its cause. Now it sounds like you are suggesting that depression or other mental illness should be viewed (and treated) as a murderous threat. Do you have any idea how much social stigma and abuse has added to the suffering of people with mental illness because of people fearing what they don't understand? Until you understand mental illness, I don't believe you can understand how it could possibly be linked to aggression any more than someone who hasn't practices islam could begin to understand how Islam could be used to provoke people into committing terrorist acts. The biggest danger is actually the large number of relatively ignorant people who naively view themselves as normal and therefore immune from sociopathic cognitive behavior. Such people often carry enormous amounts of fear, aggression, hate, etc. inside themselves, which they attempt to repress/hide so as to maintain their "normal" social appearance. This in turn can lead to a build up of emotions and aggression that can either damage their health or lead to outbursts like the one in that movie where Michael Douglas snaps during a traffic jam and tries to walk to his daughter's bday party (traffic?). Anyway, the reason I mention that movie is because it's a good example of how rational people can reach a boiling point and end up in a self-destructive situation even though they may be right about many things and legitimate in wanting to do something about it. It's fine to talk about social problems, but you should be careful drumming up such provocative emotions about things that shock/offend you because it can provoke others who read it into pent-up aggression.

[rigney]

You have to be careful watching the news. TV media tends to be very sensational and aims to provoke emotional responses by running dramatic stories and emphasizing the shock value with provocative commentary. The result is that people get into an emotional frenzy and they become aggressively hostile toward whomever they associate with the threat they fear. During the time of 9/11, it was muslims even though Bush explicitly exonerated terrorism from having Islam as its cause. Now it sounds like you are suggesting that depression or other mental illness should be viewed (and treated) as a murderous threat. Do you have any idea how much social stigma and abuse has added to the suffering of people with mental illness because of people fearing what they don't understand? Until you understand mental illness, I don't believe you can understand how it could possibly be linked to aggression any more than someone who hasn't practices islam could begin to understand how Islam could be used to provoke people into committing terrorist acts. The biggest danger is actually the large number of relatively ignorant people who naively view themselves as normal and therefore immune from sociopathic cognitive behavior. Such people often carry enormous amounts of fear, aggression, hate, etc. inside themselves, which they attempt to repress/hide so as to maintain their "normal" social appearance. This in turn can lead to a build up of emotions and aggression that can either damage their health or lead to outbursts like the one in that movie where Michael Douglas snaps during a traffic jam and tries to walk to his daughter's bday party (traffic?). Anyway, the reason I mention that movie is because it's a good example of how rational people can reach a boiling point and end up in a self-destructive situation even though they may be right about many things and legitimate in wanting to do something about it. It's fine to talk about social problems, but you should be careful drumming up such provocative emotions about things that shock/offend you because it can provoke others who read it into pent-up aggression.

I do appreciate your response. Your understanding the situation is probably much bettr than mine. My problem is, I've been here so many years, it's rather difficult putting my feeling and thoughts on the front burner without seeing them come to a boil. From the dust bowl of the 30s to the cesspool of 9/11/01, there is little I haven't done or seen. But, are we running now like Lemmings toward the edge of a cliff that we can't avoid? Edited December 1, 2010 by rigney

[lemur]

I do appreciate you response. Your understanding of the situation is likely more sensible than mine could ever be. My problem?, I've been here so many years it's rather difficult putting my feeling and thoughts on the front burner without seeing them come to a boil. From the dust bowl of the 30s to the cesspool of 9/11/01, there is little I haven't done or seen. Are we running like Lemmings toward the edge of a cliff we can't avoid?

 

Yes, and it's because we are exposing ourselves to a provocative sensationalist mass-media. The cliff is, however, not inevitable. People are still capable of resisting provocation and reactionism. Wiser people, imo, are able to recognize that people are free to choose the easy path of exercising their power destructively instead of constructively and that there is no way of stopping others from doing so. Ultimately individuals are responsible for their own actions. You can try to use your own power constructively and influence others to do so as well, but even if you succeed there is no guarantee that they still won't succumb to the temptation to react and destroy. The positive side that never gets reported in the media is that there are a great deal of situations everyday where people choose to forego hate and destruction and choose a more positive, constructive path, at least for the moment. That is the "glass half full" perspective but, imo, if it weren't for all those good actions, the glass wouldn't just be empty, it would be shattered and everyone would be living in constant hell at each others' merciless enraged hands.

[rigney]

Yes, and it's because we are exposing ourselves to a provocative sensationalist mass-media. The cliff is, however, not inevitable. People are still capable of resisting provocation and reactionism. Wiser people, imo, are able to recognize that people are free to choose the easy path of exercising their power destructively instead of constructively and that there is no way of stopping others from doing so. Ultimately individuals are responsible for their own actions. You can try to use your own power constructively and influence others to do so as well, but even if you succeed there is no guarantee that they still won't succumb to the temptation to react and destroy. The positive side that never gets reported in the media is that there are a great deal of situations everyday where people choose to forego hate and destruction and choose a more positive, constructive path, at least for the moment. That is the "glass half full" perspective but, imo, if it weren't for all those good actions, the glass wouldn't just be empty, it would be shattered and everyone would be living in constant hell at each others' merciless enraged hands.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country" (Inaugural speech 1961). What a powerful and prophetic declaration J.F. Kennedy made that day. Can each of us live up to such an expectation? I would hope so, but sincerely doubt it. Edited December 1, 2010 by rigney

[Mr Skeptic]

I do appreciate your response. Your understanding the situation is probably much bettr than mine. My problem is, I've been here so many years, it's rather difficult putting my feeling and thoughts on the front burner without seeing them come to a boil. From the dust bowl of the 30s to the cesspool of 9/11/01, there is little I haven't done or seen. But, are we running now like Lemmings toward the edge of a cliff that we can't avoid?

 

Maybe, but then we'd have to know who are the Disney producers who are scaring everyone toward the cliffs.

[lemur]

Maybe, but then we'd have to know who are the Disney producers who are scaring everyone toward the cliffs.

People are capable of consuming media without mindlessly reacting to what they see and/or going along with the trends set. The real culprit is the spirit of conformity, or rather the legitimation of social conformity over independence, which occurs in subtle ways. Ultimately it is individuals themselves who choose to "go with the flow" or think for themselves and resist peer-pressure. Even if people are telling you that "you should just go with the flow," it is you who is responsible for your choice to obey them and it's you who suffers the consequences for your choice to conform to others. People hate this because the whole reason they copy someone else or just do what someone else tells them to is so that they won't have to take responsibility for authoring their own actions. Imo, however, it is this attitude of deferring responsibility to others that culminates in so many social problems.

[rigney]

People are capable of consuming media without mindlessly reacting to what they see and/or going along with the trends set. The real culprit is the spirit of conformity, or rather the legitimation of social conformity over independence, which occurs in subtle ways. Ultimately it is individuals themselves who choose to "go with the flow" or think for themselves and resist peer-pressure. Even if people are telling you that "you should just go with the flow," it is you who is responsible for your choice to obey them and it's you who suffers the consequences for your choice to conform to others. People hate this because the whole reason they copy someone else or just do what someone else tells them to is so that they won't have to take responsibility for authoring their own actions. Imo, however, it is this attitude of deferring responsibility to others that culminates in so many social problems.

If I start a small garden behind my "rented house" and it flourishes into a farm, other than paying my bills and taxes; do I owe anyone anything for my labor and good fortune? Absolutely not! If I want to communicate my bounty, I want it done at my discretion, not a government mandate saying that I must share it equally. And we wonder why there is such a static umbrella over our industries and country today? Edited December 1, 2010 by rigney

[lemur]

If I start a small garden behind my "rented house" and it flourishes into a farm, other than paying my bills and taxes; do I owe anyone anything for my labor and good fortune? absolutely not! if i want to share my bounty, I may do so at my disposal, just don't make me dole it out. And we wonder why there is such a static umbrella over our land today?

How is this a response to the quote you cited?

[rigney]

How is this a response to the quote you cited?

Bring me up to speed, which quote?

[lemur]

Bring me up to speed, which quote?

 

The one you quoted in post #57. I understood your response but not how it was a response to what you quoted.

[rigney]

The one you quoted in post #57. I understood your response but not how it was a response to what you quoted.

It was more in response to the last line of your statement in # 56. Quote: However, it is this attitude of deferring responsibility to others that culminates in so many social problems.

Unfortunately though, we have moved quite a ways from the original post. "A Mission From God"!

Edited December 1, 2010 by rigney

[lemur]

It was more in response to your statement of: However, it is this attitude of deferring responsibility to others that culminates in so many social problems.

I was talking more about when people adopt an authoritarian attitude about themselves as followers so that they can attribute responsibility/accountability to the people they choose to follow.

 

The economic socialism you're talking about is related to that attitude, I think, but not directly. A lot of people just look at the level of productivity and efficiency that has been developed in modern mass-production industrialism and question why anyone should have to go without when such abundance is the product of so much automation and labor-saving efficiency. Yes, they should think that if they want an ipod, they should develop and build it from scratch themselves, but since they've resigned themselves to not being able to do that, they whine about getting more money from the economy so they can buy it. Basically, everyone should just be free to build their own house out of sticks, mud, and/or rocks and then they should be able to keep and live in whatever they built without having to lose it because of tax-debt or mortgage-debt, etc. Since they're not allowed to do this, though, they whine for jobs or money by whatever means to live comfortably from the bounty that has been achieved by the economy.

 

 

[rigney]

I was talking more about when people adopt an authoritarian attitude about themselves as followers so that they can attribute responsibility/accountability to the people they choose to follow.

 

The economic socialism you're talking about is related to that attitude, I think, but not directly. A lot of people just look at the level of productivity and efficiency that has been developed in modern mass-production industrialism and question why anyone should have to go without when such abundance is the product of so much automation and labor-saving efficiency. Yes, they should think that if they want an ipod, they should develop and build it from scratch themselves, but since they've resigned themselves to not being able to do that, they whine about getting more money from the economy so they can buy it. Basically, everyone should just be free to build their own house out of sticks, mud, and/or rocks and then they should be able to keep and live in whatever they built without having to lose it because of tax-debt or mortgage-debt, etc. Since they're not allowed to do this, though, they whine for jobs or money by whatever means to live comfortably from the bounty that has been achieved by the economy.

"AMEN"

[lemur]

"AMEN"

I guess you're more interested in affirmation than discussion then.

[rigney]

I guess you're more interested in affirmation than discussion then.

No! I believe what you were saying is truth in any sense and the AMEN was only in agreement. I just don't want to get into a discussion that I can't coherently follow as far as the forum is concerned. I screw up enough as it is. As I say, we've totally moved away from the original topic. Hey! we can discuss what ever you'd like and when ever, let's just keep it out of this post.