Electricity

[Primarygun]

Is a man more dangerous swimming in pool(floating) or staying on ground(touch land) when there is lightning?

Will the situation change when it is sea water?

[john5746]

This is a good question. I think you would be more likely to be hit assuming nothing taller around either area in the water, since it would conduct electricity more than the ground. Salt water even more so. But, if you were hit, I think being on the ground would be worse.

 

Either way would not be good.

[Primarygun]

Which will the lightning choose to pass the water or the land?

[Lance]

If the person is completely submerged then they would be Immune to the lightning. I think the ground would probably be more dangerous because you would be standing higher where is in a lake you can not stand at ground level.

 

It’s impossible to tell whether the lightning would travel through the water or land without more information. How about a pretty picture?

[Douglas]

Is a man more dangerous swimming in pool(floating) or staying on ground(touch land) when there is lightning?

Will the situation change when it is sea water?

Lightning always seeks ground (earth), and it always seeks the path of least resistance. If you're standing next to a tree in your bare feet the lightning will hit you, if you're standing next to a tree on a two foot rubber pad, the lightning will hit the tree.

Thus, you're safer in the pool. The lightning will hit the ground before it hits the water, because water has resistance.

[5614]

agreed with douglas, but might i add that the swimming pool will conduct the electrical current, so by going into the pool you are increasing [effectively] your area.

in that if anywhere in the pool is hit by the lightning you are going to be fried.

 

so think of it like this, if its a small pool, then fine, but if you are talking about some mega size swimming pool, it is vastly increasing your 'area' vulnerable to the attack which increase your probability of being hit.

[Lance]

agreed with douglas' date=' but might i add that the swimming pool will conduct the electrical current, so by going into the pool you are increasing [effectively'] your area.

in that if anywhere in the pool is hit by the lightning you are going to be fried.

 

so think of it like this, if its a small pool, then fine, but if you are talking about some mega size swimming pool, it is vastly increasing your 'area' vulnerable to the attack which increase your probability of being hit.

 

Possibly but I seriously think its unlikely that being in a pool when its hit is going to effect you. Remember lightning will take the path of least resistance so why on earth would it travel through you?

 

No you’re not changing you’re area. A large pool is going to act as if it’s grounded. I have never heard of 150 people being electrocuted in a pool because of lightning, have you?

[5614]

if you are standing in a pool of water and an electrical current is passed through the water, you would feel it.... [if you were in the water].... so if you were in a swimming pool and it got hit by lightning then the people inside would be electrocuted.

 

whilsts it is more likely that the lightning will go to land, how does it 'know' to go to the land and not the water, it has to try going through the water first.

if lightning hits in the sea, what do you think happens? the lightning just moves a few hundred miles so it can hit the beach instead? no, it travels through the water. where it will be "used up" or hit the bottom of the sea - ground.

[Lance]

if lightning hits in the sea' date=' what do you think happens? the lightning just moves a few hundred miles so it can hit the beach instead? no, it travels through the water. where it will be "used up" or hit the bottom of the sea - ground.[/quote']

 

Do you honestly believe that when lightning strikes the ocean EVERYBODY IN EVERY Ocean is electrocuted???? The Ocean IS electrical ground. The only safety hazard would be being the tallest object for a thousand miles.

 

whilsts it is more likely that the lightning will go to land, how does it 'know' to go to the land and not the water, it has to try going through the water first.

 

What do you mean 'know'? It doesn’t 'know' to go anywhere. It simply travels the path of least resistance. A tree standing 10' above a pool is MUCH less resistant than the 10' of air above the pool. It doesn’t have to think, "gee, I wonder which path would be easiest for me... hmm, I think I’ll pick the pool.... oops, wrong choice..."

 

It isn’t 'more likely', It WILL travel the path of least resistance. Of course air temperature and wind speed and other variables impossible to predict could change this. Lightning is not an animal. It can’t 'pick' any path.

[5614]

Do you honestly believe that when lightning strikes the ocean EVERYBODY IN EVERY Ocean is electrocuted???? The Ocean IS electrical ground. The only safety hazard would be being the tallest object for a thousand miles.

no, because the ocean is a big space of water.... however a swimming pool is not that big and lightning is quite powerful! so i think that if a swimming pool was hit by lightning the people in the swimming pool would be electrocuted... maybe the key part of that sentence is "if a swimming pool"

 

It isn’t 'more likely', It WILL travel the path of least resistance. Of course air temperature and wind speed and other variables impossible to predict could[/i'] change this. Lightning is not an animal. It can’t 'pick' any path.

agreed, when did i say that the lightning wouldnt pass through the path of least resistance, however water has less resistance than air, if a bolt of lightning hits a water source, it travel to the water to the ground, not through the air, as that water has less resistance than the air.

[Lance]

Ok, maybe I need to clarify this a little. I'm not talking about above-ground pools, I’m only talking about below-ground pools where the water level is the same as ground level (If not lower).

 

Let me ask you this. If lightning struck a buoy 5 feet away from me (in an ocean) do you think I would be electrocuted?

[5614]

if a lightning struck a buoy:

 

kinda a question... would it become charged, from all the electrons going to or from the clouds, or would the electricity go through it into the water?

 

wait, im talking crap...... anyway, if the buoy became charged it would lose of gain electrons to the water, making the water charged, so in the end, you would feel the shock. [or current to be technically correct!]

[Lance]

Do you relize this is the exact same argument as in the faraday thread?

 

Why would you get shocked? The water is grounded.

[5614]

faraday cage: rod --> ground

here: does water = ground ???

 

if the water acts as a ground, then the electrons will either flow to the clouds of from the clouds, depending on whether the clouds are postive or negatively charged...... even if the electrons moved from the water, then the water would become charged, thus making a current in the water, this current in the water [an effect caused by the lightning] could be felt by the person in the water.

[Lance]

here: does water = ground ???

 

That’s the real question.

 

But there are other complications. I have been told that because the ocean is so deep it acts as an insulator. But a buoy would be chained to the bottom of the ocean (so the buoy would be grounded). Therefore if the buoy was struck you would be OK. If you were In-between the buoy and the surface of the ocean where the lightning struck then you probably would feel a bit of something.

 

Lightning will travel over the surface of the ocean till it either dissipates or finds a grounded buoy.

 

There are just too many complications to say general rules like, "you will be shocked" or, "you will not be shocked".

[canadianpoet]

This is a slightly convoluted thread, but I think I understand the principle question.

 

If you were swimming in a lake during a thunderstorm, are you safest if you stay in the water or got out and stood on the shore line?

 

If I understand this correctly, then I think you are safest in the water. Lightning would always prefer striking ground than water, as water isn't the most conductive substance known to man. Having said that, you'd be even safer if you were under the surface. The lightning bolt wouldn't go under and through the water to the lake bed. It would act as skin effect. The charge would spread out across the surface of the lake. If you were submerged you wouldn't get zapped. However, if you were bobbing on the surface, there is a chance you would be struck, as you are (technically) the path of least resistance and the highest object. If you weren't struck you would still feel the strike, but it would be greatly lessened as it would be so spread out over the surface. I wouldn't want to risk it though! Id just run for my car, you're safest there!

[Primarygun]

What will happen if we throw a can into sky?

There is no closed circuit.

Is the can safe?

[pulkit]

Not necessarily safe.

 

Open circuit means vacuum and not air. You see lightening only because the electric field generated is so enormous that it causes the electric breakdown of air. Air like any other substance a limit beyond which it will break down. Once this limiting field is surpassed, air starts to conduct. Now if you have a can, it is obviously not safe, the air itself is now conducting,so you actualy have a closed circuit and not an open one.

[5614]

yes, with lightning the air acts like wires do in a circuit.

 

Lightning will travel over the surface of the ocean till it either dissipates or finds a grounded buoy.

that is right, but in itself has a contradiction.

buoys float on the surface, as is the current, however the electricty will not 'enter' the buoy as the buoy, plastic, has more resistance than the water, and as the electricity is on top of the water, it will never reach the chain which attaches the buoy to the bottom of the sea, it will just carry on past it.

plus, if you are floating in the water, you may be shocked.

[Lance]

yes' date=' with lightning the air acts like wires do in a circuit.

 

 

that is right, but in itself has a contradiction.

buoys float on the surface, as is the current, however the electricty will not 'enter' the buoy as the buoy, plastic, has more resistance than the water, and as the electricity is on top of the water, it will never reach the chain which attaches the buoy to the bottom of the sea, it will just carry on past it.

plus, if you are floating in the water, you may be shocked.[/quote']

 

I fail to see the contradiction. How do you know all buoys are plastic? And I only said they will travel along the surface till they find a buoy, I didn’t say they stay on the surface indefinitely. The 1' of water under a buoy has less resistance than a few hundred miles along the surface. Also I never defined the 'surface'. The 'surface' could be a mile deep.

[5614]

the contradiction was that buoys are plastic [trust me, they are] you said electricity travels on the surface.... ok then, my mistake, generally i regard the surface as the outter layer, a 2D surface of a 3D shape and that the buoy, having more resistance than the water, would not let the electricity through it, therefore the electricty couldnt reach the ground chain.... however, now i think, that was a stupid thing to say because electricity could easily go under the water and into the chain, at which point it would travel to the ground and be grounded.... end of electricity.

 

however assuming there are no buoys around, you could still be in danger of being electrocuted.... remember the original thing was in a swimming pool, personally i dont tend to find buoys in my local swimming pool

 

where are you safer, a swimming pool, sea or the ground?

 

sea has just been talked about....

 

the ground: you being taller than the ground and having less resistance than the air around you, would attract lightning, however if there is something taller than you, with less resistance than you, then that would attract the lightning not you, so basically go near something taller than you... with less electrical resistance than you.

 

swimming pool: does the bottom of the swimming pool count as 'ground'? if so, the electricty will go straight down, but then it also would in the sea, so im guessing the answer is no... in which case the electricity will spread out over the 'surface' of the water, meaning that you are in a risk of getting shocked.

[Lance]

OK, like I said there are just too many variables to say what would/not being safe. We don’t have enough information. That’s why I asked for a pretty picture. We are arguing about completely separate scenarios, both of which are not impossible.

 

On individual scenarios we also have completely different reason why it would/not be safe.

[5614]

basically we are not sure and there are too many variables!

[Douglas]

What will happen if we throw a can into sky?

There is no closed circuit.

Is the can safe?

Keep in mind that for lightning to hit the ground that the air is ionized, which reduces the resistance of air. The lightning would probably hit the can since it has less resistance than ionized air.

[pulkit]

Man in pool would actually stick out as an easy target so to say for lightning. You must also take into account that water has very high resistance and a pool of water might as well offer more resistance than a man.

 

I for one wouldn't stay inside a lake or a pool during a thunderstorm )