Is alcohol good for society?

[Mr Rayon]

Does alcohol do more good or harm to society? Would abolishing alcohol consumption for people in society make it a better place to live? What are the most recent scientific evidence suggesting?

Edited November 30, 2010 by Voltman

[CaptainPanic]

Does "abolishing" in this particular case mean "to outlaw" or "to never have existed in the first place"?

[ewmon]

Regarding only pregnant women who drink:

 

FASD (Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder) is an umbrella term describing the range of effects that can occur in an individual whose mother drank alcohol during pregnancy. These effects may include physical, mental, behavioral, and/or learning disabilities with possible lifelong implications. Each year in the U.S., as many as 40,000 babies are born with an FASD. The cost to the nation for FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) alone is about $6 billion a year.

Studied have shown again and again that no amount of alcohol is safe for pregnant women to drink, yet some of them obviously continue to do so. The admonition that "it's not good for the baby" or that "it's hurts the baby" are euphemisms for congenital and permanent brain damage. Many FASD patients end up institutionalized at some point in their life, including a 60% chance of incarceration. The "costs" of FASD include medical and counseling fees, institutionalization costs, and loss of wages, etc in addition to disability payments and government support.

Edited November 30, 2010 by ewmon

[Versa]

Personally I've nothing against consumption of alcohol as long as we do not abuse the intake and consume too much. Scientifically consuming in moderate amount has been known to help towards our health but the damaging effect actually comes from those people who drink in uncontrolled manner and make it a habit.

[Anura]

It can make you violent.

 

unlike cannabis.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Anura

[Mr Rayon]

Does "abolishing" in this particular case mean "to outlaw" or "to never have existed in the first place"?

 

Yes

[CaptainPanic]

Yes

You cannot answer a choice between two options by "yes".

[John Cuthber]

You cannot answer a choice between two options by "yes".

It is clear that you can.

Voltman did.

It is also a perfectly logical answer.

[Mr Skeptic]

You cannot answer a choice between two options by "yes".

 

That's only true of mutually exclusive options.

[dragonstar57]

That's only true of mutually exclusive options.

and yet still his meaning is not clear

[CaptainPanic]

You cannot answer a choice between two options by "yes".

That's only true of mutually exclusive options.

So, what shall we do? Close the thread, or get back on topic? You may answer that question with "yes" if you don't see that this thread it completely hijacked by pedantry. My original question still stands.

[michel123456]

Alcohol is good and alcohol is poisonous. As said Paracelsus:

 

"The dose makes the poison."

[ajb]

Hey, it's Friday night! Who is out for a beer tonight?

[michel123456]

Try Belgian beers.

Chimay, Orval, Westmalle, Rochefort, Westvleteren, Achel, Leffe, Grimbergen, Affligem, Moinette, Mort Subite, Malheur, Bass, Aulne, Hoegaarden Blanche, Duvel, Liefmans, Maredsous, Floreffe, Saison, or other. There must be more than 700, you will find one (at least Stella Artois).

 

Beer is an alcoholic beverage. It has the same age as civilization. It must have been invented in ancient Egypt or Mesopotamia. Agriculture founded sedentarism, & sedentarism founded the global civilization we know today. And at the same time agriculture produced bread and beer. Which have the same biblical simplicity: water and cereals.

 

From wiki: "The invention of bread and beer has been argued to be responsible for humanity's ability to develop technology and build civilization."

 

So from this point of vue I vote for alcohol.

 

On the other hand, as you can hurt yourself with a car, you can hurt yourself with alcohol. It is a matter of good or wrong utilization of the poroduct. And you can hurt yourself with a horse or a camel too. And with water.

From this second point of vue, I vote for education.

Edited December 3, 2010 by michel123456

[Mr Rayon]

Does "abolishing" in this particular case mean "to outlaw" or "to never have existed in the first place"?

 

Would your answer differ depending on what I say?

You seem like a very intelligent forum member, I want to hear your thoughts for each case!

 

Personally I've nothing against consumption of alcohol as long as we do not abuse the intake and consume too much. Scientifically consuming in moderate amount has been known to help towards our health but the damaging effect actually comes from those people who drink in uncontrolled manner and make it a habit.

 

There's no doubt that the consumption of alcohol has some health benefits but I'm wondering whether the little good it does outweighs all the negative aspects. Overall, is alcohol bad? And from experience I think its impossible to drink in moderation, in fact I think there was a statistic somewhere saying that most people who think that they drink in moderation tend to in fact drink too much most of the time. I've also heard that alcohol is very addictive so once you have a couple of bottles of scotch or beer you instantly become an alcoholic, but of course this is probably quite rare and is mere speculation on my part.

[raeleen]

Hey, it's Friday night! Who is out for a beer tonight?

 

I'm going to get a glass of bubbly

[Mr Skeptic]

So from this point of vue I vote for alcohol.

...

From this second point of vue, I vote for education.

 

From my point of view, I vote double for education.

[michel123456]

From my point of view, I vote double for education.

 

Yes.

The easy way is to forbid, then you don't have to educate.

[Incendia]

Robot's view:...My study of humans has constantly shown that alcohol makes humans more illogical and stupid than usual. It only causes problems. Suggested coarse of action: Delete alcohol.

 

Alien's view: Yesh this stuff tastes terrible.

 

My point of view: It tastes terrible, looks terrible, smells terrible, it's actually poison, Why are you drinking it? It tastes terrible? Why would you drink it? It makes no sense. In response to the question: Bad for society, the problems caused by consumption of alcohol leads to money being spent on fixing problems that wouldn't have happened if alcohol was not consumed. I see no reason why it would be good for society. All it would do is anger many people. It would lead to benefits in other areas however. When people drink alcohol it inhibits intelligent thought meaning they behave more like they would if they were animals. Urinating where they shouldn't. Mating with other humans without thinking properly about the events that would follow. Sleeping in places they shouldn't. etc.

The only alcohol I would ever permit someone to drink is red wine. Why? Small amounts of it can actually be beneficial to health. [it contains flavonoids. (Vitamin P)]

All the others are useless, terrible tasting, vomit inducing, organ damaging, poisons.

[Marat]

Even consuming alcohol in moderation is a bad idea, since if you have any cultural familiarity with alcohol at all, you are preparing yourself to become an alcoholic if ever some terribly frustrating or tragic event occurs in your life and drives you to search for some chemical way to negate it.

[ahhhhhz]

"I never went to bed with an ugly woman

But I sure woke up with a few.

Last night I came in at 2 with a 10

But at 10 I woke up with a 2." - Willie Nelson

[CaptainPanic]

General about alcohol

Positive: it's a social lubricant. Definitely a helpful thing in forging professional and social networks. Helps to loosen up a bit, which is useful in difficult social situations... in a society where people move around, and often meet new people, this is useful. When used with moderation (e.g. 1 glass of wine per day) some studies even call it healthy.

Negative: it's an addictive, unhealthy, high-calory substance that can cause slurred speech, clumsiness, and delayed reflexes. It also has several negative long-term effects. Alcohol causes emotional responses.

 

What if we tried to outlaw alcohol (again)

It won't work. It's a natural product, and occurs in nature. Very easy to make at home. There is a large market for alcohol, partially because it's addictive. Only total-control can prevent the manufacturing of alcohol. Also, it is a bulk chemical (used in huge amounts in industry)... banning ethanol would harm our economy in more than 1 way.

 

What if alcohol wouldn't exist

Social gatherings would probably be different in Western society. There would be less damage caused by alcohol - but I wonder what has a bigger impact - the social networking, or the damage done by alcohol.

I would be surprised if we wouldn't be using some other "stimulant". We would also be researching another biofuel.

 

My opinion

I don't think that alcohol does a lot of damage to our society... Or, it actually does a lot of damage, but the benefits outweigh the problems. I think that an enormous majority of users know how to use alcohol with moderation. It's the few problems that get all the attention. Banning alcohol is practically impossible and certainly won't solve anything.

Edited December 7, 2010 by CaptainPanic

[Incendia]

What benifets?!?!? It makes people get along slightly better? There are countries that have banned alcohol. Anyone found drunk on the streets is deported or arrested in those countries. Yes it is natural but I don't know anyone who has access to the ingredients or knowledge of how to make your own 'good tasting'* alcohol. Also Ethanol is fine...alcohol is not...

 

*You know alcohol doesn't taste good...admit it...

Edited December 7, 2010 by ProcuratorIncendia

[CaptainPanic]

What benifets?!?!? It makes people get along slightly better?

It makes people get along slightly better.

It makes it a little easier to start or join a conversation.

It motivates people to stick around a little longer.

 

In business, those can be important things. A networking event is often ended with an open bar where many people (but not everybody) will have a drink... (Depends also on how many people came by car).

 

There are countries that have banned alcohol. Anyone found drunk on the streets is deported or arrested in those countries.

Yet, most people who drink are functioning normally in society. I dare say that in Western countries, the large majority of people drink alcohol... and society is doing quite well. I think it's ridiculous to throw people in jail for drinking alcohol... but if that is the result of a democratically chosen government, then I guess the culture of the country demands that this is done.

This shows that culture is very important to the discussion about alcohol. Can I ask you which country you're from?

 

Yes it is natural but I don't know anyone who has access to the ingredients or knowledge of how to make your own 'good tasting'* alcohol. Also Ethanol is fine...alcohol is not...

 

*You know alcohol doesn't taste good...admit it...

 

Friends of mine make a good beer.

Some local bars produce their own beer.

Vineyards make most excellent wines in small-scale traditional processes.

 

There are thousands, perhaps millions of people who make good tasting alcohol.

 

Are you sure you know what you're talking about? For example, beer requires only water, barley and hops. That's water, and two common agricultural products. The barley contains starch (sugar) which forms the alcohol. Hops is for the taste.

Wine is made of grapes... also not exactly hard to come by.

In fact, any fruit can ferment and form alcohol... the only ingredient for alcohol is sugar.

 

I also challenge your remark that alcohol doesn't taste good. I mean, I think beer tastes great. Pure alcohol does not taste good at all, but as long as it's in a drink in small amounts, it can be very nice. Just like pure spanish peppers taste pretty bad, but I like some in my food. I don't eat a spoonful of salt, but I like a little salt on my food too.

 

In this entire thread, we can assume that alcohol = ethanol.

The alcohol in beverages is ethanol. Nobody drinks any other alcohols... and yeast cannot produce any other alcohols (except for fusel oils, which is produced in very small quantities during fermentation. Fusel oil contains a few alcohols).

 

I am sorry to say, but I believe you come from a country where alcohol is outlawed... and that you have so little experience with alcohol that you just don't know what you're talking about.

[Incendia]

People don't need the alcohol...I dare say that they shouldn't be in such a job if they need alcohol to do it properly.Muslim countries...it's against their religion anyway...hence the ban...No I am not a muslim...or part of any religion...

I assume you mean live in not from...they are not always the same country you know...England why?

No we cannot assume alcohol=ethanol...ethanol is a bio-fuel. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to drink it.

I don't intentionally poison myself...And I have seen how people act when they are drunk...that is all the experience I need.

 

No one needs it.

People become easily addicted by it.

It cause far too many problems. Billions in money is lost as an indirect cause of people drinking alcohol.

 

You say that billions of pounds a year being wasted can be justified with just the fact it makes people get along slightly better...I disagree. Health and money are far more valuable. Society can change.