Time Travel

[steevey]

Well lets get this straight and clear and this is the last time im going to say anything about this topic again on this forum, the time travel crap needs to stop, time is a living force, very constant and has been here before you and will be here long after the bugs have eaten your corpse, time cannot be manipulated, you would have to make dead people be reborn and redo all there deeds over again and people would have to go back and replay everything they did from long ago, and as for future travel we cannot do that bvecuase we have yet to reach that point in reality, we cant skip and fastforward reality, and we cannot redo or be in a time that was before, time cannot bbe manipulated which is what you guys are trying to speculate, just like we cannot add a year to our lives or stop drinking water or something with the same chemical makeup and expect to live much longer, God has put absolute laws to limit mans influence on certain things, and as for the so called proof of time travel through the high speed airplanes; thats nothing more than your brain messing with you, you have not traveled through time, thats called a time lapse, lets live in reality here and grow up, take time to get your stuff in order with relatives, famiy, and friends before its too late because time keeps ticking.

 

But if time is something that actually exists, how come I could at any point in my life replace time with something such as "per 100 swings of a pendulum" or "per 200 miles the earth travels around the sun"?

Edited January 18, 2011 by steevey

[Spyman]

Well lets get this straight and clear and this is the last time im going to say anything about this topic again on this forum, the time travel crap needs to stop, time is a living force, very constant and has been here before you and will be here long after the bugs have eaten your corpse, time cannot be manipulated, you would have to make dead people be reborn and redo all there deeds over again and people would have to go back and replay everything they did from long ago, and as for future travel we cannot do that bvecuase we have yet to reach that point in reality, we cant skip and fastforward reality, and we cannot redo or be in a time that was before, time cannot bbe manipulated which is what you guys are trying to speculate, just like we cannot add a year to our lives or stop drinking water or something with the same chemical makeup and expect to live much longer, God has put absolute laws to limit mans influence on certain things, and as for the so called proof of time travel through the high speed airplanes; thats nothing more than your brain messing with you, you have not traveled through time, thats called a time lapse, lets live in reality here and grow up, take time to get your stuff in order with relatives, famiy, and friends before its too late because time keeps ticking.

You are severly limiting your ability to understand science with your faith and thats fine, but we are free to choose a different path.

[MR. Science]

Prowler it seems you trying to start problems very quickly, not only does your response have nothing to do with countering my statement, its juvenile, if yuor going to respond to someone, have something worth typing if your going to participate.

 

But if time is something that actually exists, how come I could at any point in my life replace time with something such as "per 100 swings of a pendulum" or "per 200 miles the earth travels around the sun"?

 

 

Funny... Well our gregorian system is based on how the earth revolves around the sun and other factors, what your trying to do is create a system that is not only nonsensical but by next week our world would be in chaos, the current system we have is perfect, theres a spiritual and physical sense to time, which I will go over later, thanks for a post thats worth answering.

 

 

 

[owl]

Hi folks,

I'll jump in here on the side of time being just the convention of acknowledging event duration, i.e., between to clicks of a metaphorical stopwatch, "elapsed time" between two instants of now.

 

Of course it has taken on a meaning beyond that in science, particularly in relativity in which it has become an entity of some sort which "dilates" etc. No doubt clocks keep time differently in different inertial frames of reference, but that doesn't mean they are measureing some "thing... time" which speeds up and slows down in different inertial environments.

 

Time travel is, of course a science fiction devise. Now is the ongoing present. Past is no longer present or accessible but in memory and history, and future is not yet present, though we can "visit it" in imagination or probability studies... One not still happening, the latter not yet happening. Pretty simple really until it is reified into some kind of matrix/entity.

 

Naturally "it takes time" for things to move, light to travel through space bearing images and information to observers. But don't let the language create something out of nothing. Now is all there is!

Well, now I've dipped my toe into the water. I'll soon see if I want to wade in and swim or not.

( I kind of prefer a good dust bath as I ruffle my feathers!)

 

Owl

[steevey]

Funny... Well our gregorian system is based on how the earth revolves around the sun and other factors, what your trying to do is create a system that is not only nonsensical but by next week our world would be in chaos, the current system we have is perfect, theres a spiritual and physical sense to time, which I will go over later, thanks for a post thats worth answering.

 

 

What happens with people like this person, is because everyone uses the same exact measurement of time and for so many things, people take time is a mystical force that's always there. If we were orbiting a different star, time would change, if life on this planet evolved with higher energy systems and moved faster, things like bullets would seems slow. Time is just a label to better organize things, it's not something that actually exists. You can do this with math too. You may be able to find a pattern, but your still the one labeling as that pattern with a specific system of logic which doesn't coincide with the universe which is why you can have negative area and distance. Never in reality are two apples going 1+1=2. The only thing that happens is a cluster of atoms are moving closer together. At any point, they can be separated without any math, and the distance between them is never actually 0 anyway due to the electro magnetic force.

Edited January 19, 2011 by steevey

[Moontanman]

Isn't it probable that to time travel you could only travel during the time the time machine exists? In other words if I made a time machine I could not visit my mom or dinosaurs because the time machine wasn't built yet...

[steevey]

Isn't it probable that to time travel you could only travel during the time the time machine exists? In other words if I made a time machine I could not visit my mom or dinosaurs because the time machine wasn't built yet...

 

 

Yep, that's still conservation of matter and energy.

 

 

[Spyman]

Prowler it seems you trying to start problems very quickly, not only does your response have nothing to do with countering my statement, its juvenile, if yuor going to respond to someone, have something worth typing if your going to participate.

Well Quark, you are a newcomer here and so far you have already managed to get six negative reputation points which indicates that you are the one stirring up problems quickly.

 

IMHO my post is exactly on point countering your statement, you said "the time travel crap needs to stop" but you are not in a position to make any demands here and you said "God has put absolute laws to limit mans influence on certain things" which clearly indicates that your faith limits your view.

 

We know we are constantly moving forward in time, into the future, because when you read this some time has passed since I wrote it.

 

Do you understand the theory of Relativity and do you dispute it or not?

[alpha2cen]

I think frozen man is another type of time machine.

It is more cheap and easy way than other methods to go to the future.

You probably think it is not time machine.

But, Let us think about two system , human body and outside.

The frozen man body's biological activity is not no longer continued, it seems like particles movements are delayed by very high speed.

So freezing affects the man time dilation.

Physical time dilation =~ biological time dilation

[Ophiolite]

Well lets get this straight and clear and this is the last time im going to say anything about this topic again on this forum, .

I wanted to alert you to the fact that someone has stolen your identity as demonstrated by this later post in your name.

 

 

Funny... Well our gregorian system is based on how the earth revolves around the sun and other factors, what your trying to do is create a system that is not only nonsensical but by next week our world would be in chaos, the current system we have is perfect, theres a spiritual and physical sense to time, which I will go over later, thanks for a post thats worth answering.

 

It is shocking that, after you have made it so clear you will make no further contributions to this thread, someone should undermine your integrity by this flagrantly bad impersonation. You should complain to the moderators.

[steevey]

I think frozen man is another type of time machine.

It is more cheap and easy way than other methods to go to the future.

You probably think it is not time machine.

But, Let us think about two system , human body and outside.

The frozen man body's biological activity is not no longer continued, it seems like particles movements are delayed by very high speed.

So freezing affects the man time dilation.

Physical time dilation =~ biological time dilation

 

 

Maybe the particles in the man are slowed down, but the rest of the universe is continuing on.

 

 

[alpha2cen]

Maybe the particles in the man are slowed down, but the rest of the universe is continuing on.

 

 

 

In the future this technology would be used for space travel.

If this technology were perfect, it might be good method for space travel. Astronaut may not be boring during the travel period.

One of the science fiction films is "Planet Of The Apes".

[D H]

I wanted to alert you to the fact that someone has stolen your identity as demonstrated by this later post in your name.

 

 

It is shocking that, after you have made it so clear you will make no further contributions to this thread, someone should undermine your integrity by this flagrantly bad impersonation. You should complain to the moderators.

Ah yes, the old Cleveland Brown response. Worked then, works now.

 

Some fan wrote this letter back in 1974 to the Cleveland Browns:

 

 

 

The response is now a classic:

 

 

 

[36grit]

My Creed: All things are possible in time

 

We have barely scraped the surface of the matrix, that is time. The SPEED of light is probably a prime or base strand of this matrix. Mass equals energy times the SPEED of light squared. Mass affects Time in space. So, gravity is a part of the matrix. When we begin to understand gravity we'll surely come to a better understanding of time. When we look out into space all that we can hope to see, is the past existing and traveling to us. Therefore: space and/or distance is definetly part of this matrix of time.

We are right now experiencing a present moment in the distant past. This is probably possible because the atoms that we are made of is a ball of energy. At the speed of light time stands still and the mass (that we are) is energy traveling twice that speed. Nothing can travel faster than light, therefore: mass is an entirely different dimension. I think that particles existing within a quantum field experience speeds that top out at C to the 4rth power.

Interesting fact, I saw Stephan Hawkins "A History Of Time" and he did some math and figured out that, if the universe starting shrinking time would still move forward.

The way I see it, we are little more than a bunch of three dimensional electomagnetic pixels expressing our family of thoughts with words, attitude, and actions. Suspended in a four dimensional distance as a four dimensional distance, and inside and outside of another distance known as the quantom field(s). I see no reason why time travel should'nt be possible. You can exist anywhere and do anything within your imagination now, why not outside? Everything is just a matter of time. The universe was born out of a sea of infinite possibilities. I like to believe that it is a place that children know well.

Edited January 24, 2011 by 36grit

[alpha2cen]

Are there any other method all particle movement slow down without very high speed, high gravity or high acceleration?

[Zarnaxus]

i know this is an old forum, kinda. But, i have another question that relates well to this conversation.

 

Why , on the fourth dimensional plane, are we even travelling relatively steadily forward in time? Why, in the four dimensions, can we only decide to move freely in three of them.

I know that the space next to me is real, and that i could move to it. If i know the past is a for certain real thing (snapshot), then why cant i move to it? Why am i being forced to move forward. Maybe its another universal foorce!!! or not... why can't i paddle upstream??

 

 

(and to YdoaPs-- i have read in one of Stephen Hawkings books, that it is a conveniant theory to look at the past in an accumulation of definite "snapshots", but when looking at time at a quantum level, when measuring a result, you have to take into consideration ALL the past timelines which could have led to that result. In fact, the universe may have an unlimited amount of possible pasts. I quote from his book "Quantum physics tells us that no matter how thorough our observation of the present, the (unobserved) past, like the future, is indefinite and exists only as a spectrum of possibilities. The universe, according to quantum physics, has no single past, or history." sorry, but.... yeah.)

[Spyman]

Why , on the fourth dimensional plane, are we even travelling relatively steadily forward in time? Why, in the four dimensions, can we only decide to move freely in three of them.

I know that the space next to me is real, and that i could move to it. If i know the past is a for certain real thing (snapshot), then why cant i move to it? Why am i being forced to move forward. Maybe its another universal foorce!!! or not... why can't i paddle upstream??

The Arrow of time is still one of the major unsolved problems in physics, we don't know yet.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Spyman

[michel123456]

i know this is an old forum, kinda. But, i have another question that relates well to this conversation.

 

(...)Why , on the fourth dimensional plane, are we even travelling relatively steadily forward in time? (...)

 

Good question.

At least you admit that WE are traveling.

Time does nothing, WE do.

It means that something happens inside us (us = anything material) and we don't understand anything of it, except that strange feeling of elapsing time.

Thus, the question is not "what is time?" as if time was something mysterious out there, the question is "what is happening to us?".

[36grit]

Good question.

At least you admit that WE are traveling.

Time does nothing, WE do.

It means that something happens inside us (us = anything material) and we don't understand anything of it, except that strange feeling of elapsing time.

Thus, the question is not "what is time?" as if time was something mysterious out there, the question is "what is happening to us?".

 

 

I totaly disagree. In time, we are standing relatively still here in the present. As time moves though us at the speed of light.

 

i know this is an old forum, kinda. But, i have another question that relates well to this conversation.

 

Why , on the fourth dimensional plane, are we even travelling relatively steadily forward in time? Why, in the four dimensions, can we only decide to move freely in three of them.

I know that the space next to me is real, and that i could move to it. If i know the past is a for certain real thing (snapshot), then why cant i move to it? Why am i being forced to move forward. Maybe its another universal foorce!!! or not... why can't i paddle upstream??

 

 

(and to YdoaPs-- i have read in one of Stephen Hawkings books, that it is a conveniant theory to look at the past in an accumulation of definite "snapshots", but when looking at time at a quantum level, when measuring a result, you have to take into consideration ALL the past timelines which could have led to that result. In fact, the universe may have an unlimited amount of possible pasts. I quote from his book "Quantum physics tells us that no matter how thorough our observation of the present, the (unobserved) past, like the future, is indefinite and exists only as a spectrum of possibilities. The universe, according to quantum physics, has no single past, or history." sorry, but.... yeah.)

 

In my opinion, we do experience accelerations in time. But they are in large part relative to everything else that we know. If you went back in time your presence there would effect the future. So to navigate between the two futures you would have to go back past the point of your previous return and make a uturn without leaving any gravitational imprint on that time zone.

and even then, you'd be lucky to get back to the original time zone that you left.

 

One cannot move into an empty space. This is an illusion. Mass defines it's own present time continually. The past is a form of time radiation we call space. You cannot move into an empty space, but you can move towards it and start pushing out the old past and start filling it with your new past until the dimensions that you are, fit into that space. Mass is a real distance, space is a fleeting ghost of the ever expanding past.

[Riot]

I will reference my post in a similar topic

 

Not impossible. Sub atomic particles under theoretical certain conditions can become slower than the speed of light which would cause a "reverse" in time. Although, it does not change time because time is constant; but the speed.

 

 

[owl]

I will reference my post in a similar topic

Check out my Ontology of Time thread in the Speculations section.

How do you deal with the fact that the present means now, and "it is always now"... the past is not still present the future is not yet present.

It's just too simple for a complicated mind set about time to comprehend... especially since "time dilation" reified "it" into being an entity in and of itself.

Clocks "keep time" differently ("tick" at different rates) in different environments. This does not make time into a variable entity.

What say you?

[Riot]

Check out my Ontology of Time thread in the Speculations section.

How do you deal with the fact that the present means now, and "it is always now"... the past is not still present the future is not yet present.

It's just too simple for a complicated mind set about time to comprehend... especially since "time dilation" reified "it" into being an entity in and of itself.

Clocks "keep time" differently ("tick" at different rates) in different environments. This does not make time into a variable entity.

What say you?

 

I am talking about light not time.

[IM Egdall]

A terrific discussion on the nature of time is in Brian Greene's classic The Fabric of the Cosmos. In chapter 5, he discusses the meaning of "now."

 

To quote:

"Observers moving relative to each other have different conception of what exists at a given moment, and hence they have different conceptions of reality."

 

So one observer's list of what is happening "now" is not necessarily the same as another's. Now is relative!

 

Relativity reveals a universe that is very strange. An enormous amount of evidence confirms that this strange universe is indeed our universe.

[owl]

I ME:

So one observer's list of what is happening "now" is not necessarily the same as another's. Now is relative!

True, relatively speaking. But "presentism" transcends relativity's focus on who sees what happening and when. It is fairly obvious that the present is present, i.e., now everywhere... at least among ontologists who actually care about 'what time is.'

 

If you think, for instance, on a cosmic scale rather than limited to local phenomena, what would the event duration (time) be for either a cosmic Bang/Crunch cycle... or alternatively, for the elapsed time from the Bang to total entropy?

This "thought experiment" (presentism) transcends "local time"... but "What is time?" is also central to the subject of this thread... so what replies are appropriate where is a little "blurry" in this case.

(I hope the gag rule doesn't apply here, though this reply does belong in "Philosophy" (of science.) But I'll quit on it anyway.

Just that presentism disagrees with the statement, "Now is relative" as an absolute fact.

Edited June 4, 2011 by owl

[Iggy]

True, relatively speaking. But "presentism" transcends relativity's focus on who sees what happening and when. It is fairly obvious that the present is present, i.e., now everywhere... at least among ontologists who actually care about 'what time is.'

Can you give backup for the idea that "the present is present, i.e., now everywhere", for example, a physics theory consistent with relativity's confirmed predictions and presentism? I would be very interested in looking at that theory.

 

If you think, for instance, on a cosmic scale rather than limited to local phenomena, what would the event duration (time) be for either a cosmic Bang/Crunch cycle... or alternatively, for the elapsed time from the Bang to total entropy?

 

The duration of a bang/cruch cycle depends on the gravitational potential and velocity relative to the CMB of the frame measuring it. In the usual big bang metric the duration of the cycle would be equal for all observers, but only because all observers are assumed not to have a peculiar velocity or a peculiar gravitational potential. Observers in reality don't exactly follow that simplifying approximation, so the time since the big bang -- or the time of a bang/crunch cycle -- is not constant, but depends on reference frame.