Energy - Why is sound an energy? etc.

[Incendia]

So...According to wikipedia and just about every other source there are 10 types of energy...

Chemical Energy- CE

Kinetic Energy-KE

Thermal Energy-TE

Light Energy-LE

Gravitational Potential Energy-GPE

Sound Energy- SE

Electromagnetic Energy-EME

Elastic potential Energy-EPE

Nuclear Energy-NE

Radiant Energy-RE (Why are we not told about this in school? It is the energy of electromagnetic waves which includes thermal radiation and light.)

 

 

I disagree.

SE for instance is vibration. Doesn't that make it a form KE?

And shouldn't TE be split into KE and LE? [KE because of vibrating particles that transfer heat and LE because heat [in the form of radiation] is part of the Electromagnetic spectrum along with light.] Perhaps there is even something causing the KE of atoms with TE that converts it into LE?

I did some more research and is seems that LE and TE can both be put under Radiant Energy-RE and that RE can be put under EME.

Edited December 11, 2010 by ProcuratorIncendia

[lemur]

I agree that sound energy is KE, as well as what you said about heat consisting of radiation and particle KE (vibration), and yes I wonder if radiation is part of the vibrational-process. I'm also tempted to add that radiation (light energy) is a form of KE, since it is displaced electron momentum, which seems to get teleported somehow from point of emission to point of absorption, but I suppose this could qualify it as its own form of energy. Still, I also think it makes sense to see the electron-level as a state of potential energy that increases prior to radiation emission and decreases as a consequence of emission. This makes it seem sensible to view the radiation itself as displaced KE of the electron in question, since it must lose some momentum as it drops to the lower level/orbit or gain it when it absorbs energy.

 

Nuclear and chemical energy could both be viewed as both KE and PE, imo, since the sub-particles seem to store energy within the configuration of their (orbital) motion relative to one another. I would say the same thing about planets or moons in orbit, that they are in motion and therefore expressing KE but because the motion is recursive (looped), they are also storing potential energy that could be expressed in a collision, through friction, or other change in gravitational relations with other bodies.

 

What is "electromagnetic energy" that is different from "light energy" or vice versa?

[Incendia]

Radiation is done through photons not electrons...Modified main post.

[Sisyphus]

So...According to wikipedia and just about every other source there are 10 types of energy...

 

No. Those are just examples of various manifestations of energy. That list is not complete nor are they mutually exclusive. e.g. "sound energy" is just a macroscopic manifestation of kinetic energy of individual particles. In fact, they're all various forms of kinetic or potential energy, as the very next sentence in the Wikipedia article points out:

 

These energies may be divided into two main groups; kinetic energy and potential energy.

[Incendia]

Well then why don't they teach us that in schools? Also sound should never be classed an an energy...not even as a manifestation of kinetic energy...This topic has given me an idea...

[Sisyphus]

Well then why don't they teach us that in schools?

 

They do?

 

Also sound should never be classed an an energy...not even as a manifestation of kinetic energy...

 

Whyever not?

[Incendia]

They do?

Nope...they tell these are the 9 main forms of energy then stop teaching what the forms are altogether...maybe they do in university or college but that seems unlikely.

Whyever not?

... because...it doesn't make any sense... it's seems illogical... just no...It would be like saying the motion of my arm out-stretching is it's own type of energy... It clearly isn't.

[lemur]

... because...it doesn't make any sense... it's seems illogical... just no...It would be like saying the motion of my arm out-stretching is it's own type of energy... It clearly isn't.

It's true. If sound energy is classified as a specific type of energy, then so should ocean waves, electricity, and earthquakes, no?

[Incendia]

Electricity is classed an an energy...

[lemur]

Electricity is classed an an energy...

Oh that's what EM energy means! Well, what about earthquakes and ocean waves? Should those be called seismic and hydraulic energy?

[Sisyphus]

Should those be called seismic and hydraulic energy?

 

Sure, why not? The Richter scale is a measure of seismic energy.

[Incendia]

ACK! Science should be making things simple...not creating 1000 new types of energy where they are not needed...

[lemur]

ACK! Science should be making things simple...not creating 1000 new types of energy where they are not needed...

But I really want to understand the difference between alkaline energy, lithium-ion energy, and nickle-metal-hydride energy; not to mention the difference between AC and DC energy.

[Sisyphus]

I think there's some confusion here. There aren't different kinds of energy, though we often speak that way. All energy is measured in joules, etc. Energy is also not a substance in itself - it is a property that other things have.

 

There are, however, various ways energy is manifested that are useful to talk about. For example, it would be silly and impractical to talk about the individual and constantly changing kinetic energies of every atom in an object. However, we have a very useful and simple way to describe the macroscopic effect of the sum of those energies, and we call that temperature, or "thermal energy." You could, in theory, talk about every atom of steam in a piston and how each collides with the edges and on and on, or you can talk about the thermal energy being converted into mechanical energy, and everyone will understand what you mean.

[lemur]

I think there's some confusion here. There aren't different kinds of energy, though we often speak that way. All energy is measured in joules, etc. Energy is also not a substance in itself - it is a property that other things have.

 

There are, however, various ways energy is manifested that are useful to talk about. For example, it would be silly and impractical to talk about the individual and constantly changing kinetic energies of every atom in an object. However, we have a very useful and simple way to describe the macroscopic effect of the sum of those energies, and we call that temperature, or "thermal energy." You could, in theory, talk about every atom of steam in a piston and how each collides with the edges and on and on, or you can talk about the thermal energy being converted into mechanical energy, and everyone will understand what you mean.

True, macroscopically apparent homgeneities between relatively distinct macro-substances imply that discrepancies among the particles of the respectively differentiated conglomerates are eclipsed by the difference between them. E.g. If a cloud of steam would ascend to a solid ceiling at 25C, the variation among individual particles would be eclipsed by the entropic effects of contact between the two macro-aggregates, steam and ceiling. Nevertheless, it doesn't mute the empirical fact that some of the steam particles will be vibrating at a lower energy than some of the ceiling particles and vice-versa. Furthermore, by focussing on only the macro, you could miss some micro-emergent phenomena that are not immediately apparent at the macro-level, I think. This may not be so in all cases, but certainly the macro-level is reductive, to say the least.

 

 

 

[swansont]

Nope...they tell these are the 9 main forms of energy then stop teaching what the forms are altogether...maybe they do in university or college but that seems unlikely.

 

 

That may be your experience, but it wasn't mine.

 

Different "forms" of energy are used/taught because there is an equation you can use to do something useful. Sound carries energy, but using 1/2 mv^2 isn't particularly helpful as an application.