The unnecessary totalitarianism that is school uniforms.

[Destiny]

Thank god school uniforms don't exist in most schools in America. I realize a couple Catholic/private schools have them. But if they ever hit public schools, there will be an open rebellion against the federal government of United States. A rebellion that will result in massive loss of life. Taking away the right to dress freely in American high schools and junior high schools is the line that we the people of the United States of America draw. Our Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms to prevent totalitarianism and rebel against our government if need be. I hope it doesn't come to a rebellion, but we will rebel if necessary. Hopefully things will never come to that though, hopefully school uniforms never exist. And they never will, because if they did, there would be a rebellion. Everyone will rebel, both high school students and your average citizen who has had enough of this totalitarianism in America.

[A Tripolation]

Wow. You're such a better troll than I am. I'm jealous.

Kudos to you, sir.

[Destiny]

Before anyone says "it's just clothing that you're forced to wear against your will" then you sir are a fool.

 

"it's just clothing"

"it's just a curfew that effects everyone"

"it's just surveillance cameras in public"

"it's just getting patted down at airports"

"it's just censorship of 'unsavory' media"

"it's just the government controlling the press"

"it's just the right to hold supposedly 'bad' people without charging them with a crime"

Where does it end? It won't ever end. If we give them an inch, they will ruin America even more so than it already is. The government wants for there to be complete "order" and absolutely no freedoms. It would be easier for the government that way, then they could bend the universe to their will.

[A Tripolation]

Slippery slope fallacy. Troll harder.

You know what? I've always wanted a squirrel. A pet squirrel. I would train him to sit on my shoulder. And on my porch, I would have a cactus in a cowboy hat, using a screwdriver to create a flux capacitor.

 

But the dollar store doesn't accept bits of string, so, here I am. Squirrelless, cactusless, all alone.

 

I really don't want to take my math final. It would be better if I had a squirrel. I would attack my professor with my squirrel. And only call him off when he agreed to give me an A++. Which is an A, incremented by one. So it's more awesome.

 

Love,

Trip

[Destiny]

School uniforms are sluttier than what teens actually wear.

 

Fact: There is no legitimate reason for school uniforms to exist.

 

Myth: School uniforms make everyone treat each other like equals.

 

Let's face it, school uniforms will never happen.

[ydoaPs]

Perhaps you could take a second to calm down and then present some coherent reasons that you oppose school uniforms.

[Sisyphus]

Is there some proposal I'm unaware of for school uniforms on a national level? In the U.S., most public education policy is at the state and local level.

 

(And do you honestly believe that would be a cause for widespread armed rebellion?)

[Mr Skeptic]

Looks like someone doesn't like school uniforms. I don't either, and I've never quite understood what they're for. Maybe to create a certain environment?

[Marat]

One argument for school uniforms is that they take the burden off poorer parents who cannot afford to keep up with the fashion demands of their children as they try to compete with other kids at school in how expensively they dress. Another argument is that by requiring everyone to wear the same uniform, the issue of personal appearance is necessarily thrust into the background, so that more important and interesting issues such as personal opinions, behavior, and knowledge can be foregrounded.

 

I attended a private school where all boys were required to wear a suit to school, but despite that uniformity, we still managed to reassert our individuality by the distinctive way we conformed to the standard. Rebellious types could insist on their idiosyncracy by wearing their tie in the form of a noose, wearing the same suit and tie every day for a month, sleeping in their clothes in order to cultivate an informal, rumpled look, etc.

[Lycaenid]

I think that school uniforms shouldn't exists. In Poland, pupils must wear uniforms because <insert here two first arguments presented by Marat>.

I don't agree with this, that school uniforms will help poorer parents, because we have mind and we can create many colorful clothes from "anything".

"-I can look much better in my old dress, if I will choose some accessories." It depend only of our cleverness.

[the tree]

School uniforms are sluttier than what teens actually wear.

Oh really, are we using 'slut' as an objectively bad term still? Really, promiscuity and a bit of skin are frowned upon some religions but unless you're trying to present a religious argument against school uniforms this really isn't relevant.

 

Fact: There is no legitimate reason for school uniforms to exist.

Facts, and questions of ethics don't really go together. Facts are largely about what is, and this is a question of what someone may or may not think should be.

 

Myth: School uniforms make everyone treat each other like equals.

I'd like to see some formal studies on that, I really would.

 

Let's face it, school uniforms will never happen.

Was anyone, anywhere, ever claiming that they would?

[Bignose]

I think that there are valid arguments for school uniforms:

 

In my opinion, a big one is getting into the mental mode of being at school. Just like when one puts on a sports uniform, it helps get into the mental mode of being ready to play that sport. The uniform may help the students take a more professional approach to school.

 

There are many workplaces that also mandate clothing standards. As one example, to go out into the shop where I work, I have to wear a bump cap, earplugs, safety glasses, gloves, and metatarsal steel toed boots. I have to wear slacks (no jeans) and a fairly dressy shirt (i.e. not just a T-shirts) in the office. When I put on my safety boots, I get into the mental mode of going out into the shop and to be aware of the dangers present there. Doctors and hospital staff often require the wearing of scrubs. Construction workers usually require safety footwear and hardhats. Policemen typically wear a uniform. Etc. Etc.

 

I think another advantage would be being able to easily identify students that should be in school if they try to leave the campus when not allowed. This could also be useful for class trips.

 

In the end, I think that most of the arguments both for and against are based on a lot of hearsay and conjecture, really. If there aren't any well-done studies, then it is just speculation, really.

[Marat]

Actors often say that it is only when they don the full costume and make-up for their role that they truly feel they are in the part. It is sometimes said that military uniforms deliberately exaggerate with epaulettes the apparent prominence of the shoulders to encourage a sense of strength and aggression in their wearers, and I think Erich Maria Remarque in 'All Quiet on the Western Front' mentions the important effect of uniforms in creating the 'soldier psychology.' So school uniforms may help put students in the mental set of being ready to learn and study: putting on their 'game face' as it were.

[insane_alien]

I think its a mental thing.

 

In my work there isn't really a dress code. I could go in wearing my metallica t-shirt and some shredded jeans if i wanted to. But, i know i wouldn't get much work done as i wouldn't be in the right mindset. my mind would associate the casual dress with a casual behaviour. so i wear a shirt and trousers. no tie but thats simply because i loathe ties. I noticed this trend in school(i'm from the UK where school uniforms are the rule rather than the exception) when we had no uniform days and id be pretty well distracted all day.

 

just because you don't like school uniforms(nobody does) doesn't mean they are evil or totalitarianistic or oppressive or whatever. they do infact serve a purpose and they do infact work to an extent.

[John Cuthber]

 

Let's face it, school uniforms will never happen.

 

In the real world, they have.

I realise that they may never happen in yours.

[Moontanman]

I like school uniforms! no wait that's another forum

[cypress]

Let's face it, school uniforms will never happen.

 

Umm, no, School uniforms have existed in most public schools in the greater New Orleans and Baton Rouge areas of Louisiana since the early 1990's. I was opposed to it then and I still am, but it remains and there is no rebellion. It seems the majority of parents and teachers (those who vote for the school board members) approve and so the uniform policy persists.

[lemur]

One argument for school uniforms is that they take the burden off poorer parents who cannot afford to keep up with the fashion demands of their children as they try to compete with other kids at school in how expensively they dress. Another argument is that by requiring everyone to wear the same uniform, the issue of personal appearance is necessarily thrust into the background, so that more important and interesting issues such as personal opinions, behavior, and knowledge can be foregrounded.

 

This is a great point. I am opposed to conformity/standardization among students but the fact is that they do it voluntarily when uniforms are not mandated. So you might as well mandate uniforms so that they will rebel against conformity instead of doing it by choice (or rather by submission to peer pressure and a will to social acceptance).

[John Cuthber]

So far, I have seen reasonable arguments put forward for wearing bump cap, earplugs, safety glasses, gloves, and metatarsal steel toed boots.

It has been pointed out that police , who need to be recognisable to the public, wear uniforms and that the military do the same for that and other reasons.

It's perfectly sensible that Construction workers usually require safety footwear and hardhats.

 

This has little to do with school uniforms. Surely schools now require pupils to wear safety gear in science and metalwork classes? The School football team is likely to have a uniform that permits them to recognise one another rapidly on the field.

 

 

It has been pointed out that a uniform permits children from a particular school to be recognised; this is particularly helpful to the bullies from other schools.

 

The peculiar argument has been made that poorer parents are better off paying for a school uniform in addition to the fashionable clothes that their children will wish to wear when away from school.

 

It has been put forward that "by requiring everyone to wear the same uniform, the issue of personal appearance is necessarily thrust into the background, so that more important and interesting issues such as personal opinions, behavior, and knowledge can be foregrounded." and this idea has been challenged by Marat's observation that "Rebellious types could insist on their idiosyncracy by wearing their tie in the form of a noose, wearing the same suit and tie every day for a month, sleeping in their clothes in order to cultivate an informal, rumpled look, etc."

My experience was similar. Some lad actually read that the rules said "Boys must wear a maroon tie" and got himself a maroon bow tie. They had to rewrite the rules.

 

 

I think Destiny's assertion that "But if they ever hit public schools, there will be an open rebellion against the federal government of United States. A rebellion that will result in massive loss of life" is gloriously absurd, but I still haven't seen a good argument in favour of uniforms.

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

I was inclined to lock this, because it's politics and Destiny is not yet able to post there. But seeing as this identical post has been spammed to several places on the internet and there is independent discussion, I will simply move it.

[the tree]

I think Destiny's assertion that "But if they ever hit public schools, there will be an open rebellion against the federal government of United States. A rebellion that will result in massive loss of life" is gloriously absurd, but I still haven't seen a good argument in favour of uniforms.

Presumably, even if every school in a state decided to adopt a uniform policy, that still wouldn't be a reason for a state to make it the law? To the best of my knowledge the British government don't encourage school uniforms - it's just that nearly all the school they fund just happen to like them.

[zapatos]

As a parent of kids in grade school I absolutely loved school uniforms. You knew exactly what they were going to wear everyday. It made the mornings much less hectic. This wasn't obvious to me until I actually had kids and went through it. And since the members of the school board were always parents of kids in school, they kept voting to keep the uniforms year after year. The benefits to the parents were obvious to nearly everyone.

 

In high school my kids didn't need to wear uniforms but at that stage in their lives most of the kids wanted to conform. So while they didn't dress in uniforms they always wore similar clothing to that of their peers.

[Moontanman]

I know it's not very popular with the kids but I liked the idea of school uniforms when my boys were growing up. It would have take a lot of the craziness out of school shopping and in the mornings before school. When I was in high school everyone was wearing old torn up jeans and t-shirts and sandals but I always wore dress shirts and pants and dress shoes, even a tie when I was in the mood, yes it won me a lot of friends but the derision didn't phase me, i always like to be different in some way.

 

BTW the idea of an armed uprising over school uniforms is so lame....

Edited December 23, 2010 by Moontanman