Burning Hydrogen

[YT2095]

yup, it`ll show a green/blue tinge to it

 

you may want to experiment with dipping the wire into various liquids 1`st, Vinigar or just plain water and see what different shades you get!

[5614]

ok, i'll light a candle, strip some wire and thats that.

 

shall post the results here, wont be for a few days though coz i'll be busy (

[Gilded]

Hey, don't copper salts make a blue flame? Does it have something to do with ions?

[YT2095]

you CAN get blue from copper, sure

 

but in a simple flame test, Green is the usual color due to impurities.

[Gilded]

I tried to burn a very thin cord of copper with a candle, but after a while it just melted and didn't provide a green/blue flame.

[YT2095]

it is very weak when using raw copper in a heavy carbon flame, try dipping the copper in some acid 1`st, it SHOULD work

[Gilded]

I tried it with vinegar this time. Didn't work either. :<

[YT2095]

well there`s always ONE experiment that will try to call you a liar, I`ll not ask you to "trust me" as that isn`t really Fair OR Scientific, lets try work this out...

 

 

have you tried with several strands at a time and in different positions within the candle flame?

 

you see the problem could be that the carbon is condensing on the cold copper creating a protective layer and thus preventing the ionisation, I used some multi strand copper wire just, took off the plastic insulation and pushing the wire into, then out of the flame a few times I managed to get the blue/green without a prob, try that

[5614]

you see the problem could be that the carbon is condensing on the cold copper creating a protective layer and thus preventing the ionisation, I used some multi strand copper wire just, took off the plastic insulation and pushing the wire into, then out of the flame a few times I managed to get the blue/green without a prob, try that

so just strip some Cu wire [is normal wire ok? i dont know if it is multi strand, just cheap Cu wire!] and then just kinda put the wire into/out of the flame quite quickly?

wouldnt you need to keep it in there to ionise the air?

[YT2095]

it looks like 1 wire, but has several copper strands of wire inside the insulation (like that used in mains elec appliances).

take the plastic off, spread the copper wires out and use that. I find that moving the copper in and out of the flame will show the green/blue color quite well.

it`s not MEGA BRIGHT, but certainly noticable

[5614]

ooh yeah, soz, i know what you mean, i just didnt know it by its name, yeah, i really hate when you have to try and thread that stuff through little metalic loops in switches and relays because all the strands get caught and stuff.

 

yeah, i can get hold of that easily.

im guessing i should wear gloves as the copper will probably get quite hot!

[Gilded]

Aaargh, I tried it again with a butane lighter so I could notice the shades better since the lighter's flame is rather colorless (its the one where the copper thingie broke off). But nothing, it just burned with a yellow flame. I'm starting to wonder if it's copper wire at all. Or then it's the damn carbon.

[5614]

just light a candle and try holding different brown coloured wires above it, trust YT he's good at this kinda stuff, he's probably right, even if you cant prove it! i dunno, have you got a well ventilated rooms, its not like a stuffy basement with no oxygen supply [doubt it would make a difference, but all the same].

[r1dermon]

5614, i've devised an easy way to get pure hydrogen. take 2 stainless steel screws, mix up a really salty solution of H2O. screw the 2 screws into opposite sides of a 3 liter soda bottle, leave a little bit of the screw left outside the bottle, in other words, dont screw it all the way in. then seal the holes with some silicon sealant. pour in your salty water, make sure your electrodes are submerged, now poke a hole a little bit above the water line, it should be like 1/8th inch. now hook that whole thing up to a battery charger, make sure the cap is on the bottle. if you want an extremely loud boom, tape the hole above the water line after disconnecting the battery charger, and then light a match, and open the cap and drop the match in...or, you could open the cap and quickly throw a balloon on it, and then squeeze the bottle to fill the balloon, and then hold the balloon over a flame...POW. lol.

[5614]

im guessing that the screws are the elctrodes, it wasnt that clear.

and also, that will also produce pure oxygen as well, which is good as it helps the conductivity of the water.

i think i may have to find a way of getting a bit further away from it, but maybe if i dont leave it on for too long i wont get much H + O

i doubt that the pressure would be high enough to blow up a balloon, but nice thought though, thanks!

[r1dermon]

5614, my professor blew up a balloon filled with hydrogen, it works. it wasnt like an m-80 bang, but it was a slight pop and a huge ball of flame. if you light a match and drop it into a bottle, it sounds like...4 times louder than a shotgun, and, IF the bottle actually breaks, the most you'll get is a strong gust of expanding gas. the hole in the bottom is to vent the oxygen. just above the water line. so you can get fairly pure hydrogen using this method. and yes, the screws are the electrodes. good observation.

[Gilded]

Mmm... Perfect combination of 2/3 H and 1/3 O inside a balloon. It indeed goes BOOM! Unless it's a balloon filled with H2O, which is good for wetting your neighbour when he heads to work.

[5614]

thanks gilded!

 

yeah, i have seen this done before but it was only H in the ballon, i was thinking that maybe the extra pure O would increase the 'explosion' dropping a match into a whole bottle full or 66% H and 33% O didnt sound to good, i was thinking of leaving the experiment going over night, allowing for a lot gas to be made, and maybe just dont use the hole in the side idea, just take off the cap and holding the bottle upside down so as not to loose the H, pop in a match. [which is alight!]

 

will there be enought pressure to blow up a balloon?

[r1dermon]

i have but one question after JUST performing this experiment. is hydrogen gas poisinous? lol. after about 4 minutes into the electrolysis i got lightheaded and i could hear my heartbeat. so i stepped away from the experiment and i felt fine after a minute. weird....anyway. this definately works. after about 20 minutes, squeeze the bottle into the balloon. it makes a good bang and a mediocre ball of flame...i tried to emulate the results of my professor, but his balloon was much more volatile. not to mention, my balloon didnt float too well. too much oxygen? maybe i could tape a milk jug on the top of the bottle. that would make for a better holding tank....

also, the water formed 3 layers, one really deep green layer at the top, a yellow layer int he middle, and then a crystal clear layer at the bottom. and a couple chunks of black floating around. could this be because of the table salt that i used in the solution? i think the black chunks were a protective coating on the screws i used. other than that, it was pretty exciting. also, i left this thing going for probably 10 minutes....would that be a sufficient amount of hydrogen? how much is produced in ci in a matter of 1 minute? in other words, how long would it take to fill that coke bottle with hydrogen doing electrolysis?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

i have but one question after JUST performing this experiment. is hydrogen gas poisinous? lol. after about 4 minutes into the electrolysis i got lightheaded and i could hear my heartbeat. so i stepped away from the experiment and i felt fine after a minute.

No, but if you were inhaling too much hydrogen and too little oxygen that might be it.

[r1dermon]

whew...i thought i killed a couple thousand more braincells...that inhailing helium when i was a kid really did me in...

[YT2095]

asphyxiation or hypoxia is likely in ANY oxygen environ, Hydrogen itself is not toxic by inhalation however, you`re quite safe in that respect, HOWEVER, when electrolysing NaCl soln, you`ll also be producing Chlorine gas! and that IS Toxic! so be very carefull!

 

the easiest way is with a simple Jackson generator, add some Alu foil to some NaOH (sodium hydroxide aka, Caustic sode) soln, and the large amount of gas produced will be all Hydrogen and nothing else. beware, it DOES get hot like boiling water when run for a length of time and high concs, so exercize a little caution, and don`t go mad on the stuff in large quantities, you`ll get your face ripped off messing with Hydrogen if you blow your parents windows out, and it wont be the Hydrogen that does it!

[Gilded]

Some time ago, some Finnish kids did the drain cleaner/Al-foil/bottle thing... With a glass bottle. I think one or two of them were in hospital condition after that. :<

[r1dermon]

wouldnt sodium also be produced if i was using an NaCl soln? is salt a necessity in electrolysis of water? i know it makes the water a whole lot more conductive...but can it be done without the salt? also, where would i get sodium hydroxide?

[YT2095]

NaOh is used in some drain cleaners and used also for making soap (have a look at some "making soap at home" sites, Red Devil Lye is one brand).

 

No it won`t make Sodium when in water soln, what will happen is a basic Hydrogen and Chlorine gas being given off from NaCl and H2O - Cl and H = NaClO3 and a little less water )

 

there are side reaction too, but they`re complec and off topic.

 

acidulated water will work just fine also, it doesn`t have to be salt, in fact salt isn`t the prefered method, it`s just usefull as an ion charge carrier