Free Energy?

[total_chaos5]

My understanding of chemistry is minimal, so if this idea doesn't work go easy on me. So I understand helium balloons rise in our atmosphere because they are less dense than our air. Could it be possible to create a cylindrical container having two sides light air(less dense) and the other side heavy air(more dense). The sides are separated by another cylindrical container. Inside this container theres compartments of medium dense gas. When the gas turns to the light side it fall creating a downward force, on the heavy side the gas would rise to create an upward force. The resulting force would continuously spin the inside container which could be attached to a turbine or a generator of some kind.

 

The picture I provided(very poor picture took me a total of 30 seconds to make) will help as a good visual description of what I'm trying to describe.

The blue color is the medium gas.

The green can be light.

The red can be heavy(the green and red are interchangeable).

 

here is the picture

[swansont]

No, it won't work. You would end up with the light gas on top and the heavy gas on the bottom. It would not spin continuously; there would be losses to friction.

[total_chaos5]

No, it won't work. You would end up with the light gas on top and the heavy gas on the bottom. It would not spin continuously; there would be losses to friction.

 

I read somewhere that you can fill a chamber to approx. 99.9% gas with the right conditions, which would mean the .1% that would be air would float to the top/bottom. There is loss to friction with everything, thats a problem I'm not concerned about yet.

 

 

[ydoaPs]

There is loss to friction with everything, thats a problem I'm not concerned about yet.

Why not? That's a HUGE problem. Losses are why it won't work.....especially if you're going to try to extract energy from it.

[total_chaos5]

Why not? That's a HUGE problem. Losses are why it won't work.....especially if you're going to try to extract energy from it.

Well I'm just wondering if it will work. I'm just as big of a skeptic as you guys. Theoretically if we overcame the force of friction, wouldn't that mean the conservation of energy law no longer applies? I don't understand where the energy comes from when gases rise/fall in our atmosphere. Maybe someone can explain this to me, but when I see a helium balloon rising it really makes me think.

 

 

 

[Mr Skeptic]

First, I'd avoid using gas because it is harder for you to understand, and also lighter and can do extra things like expand and contract. Why not do it with a solid or a liquid; those exist at many different densities too. However, whatever energy you get when the heavy thing falls or the light thing rises, you have to put back when the heavy thing must be lifted and the light thing dragged down. And on top of that, there is the losses due to friction.

[total_chaos5]

However, whatever energy you get when the heavy thing falls or the light thing rises, you have to put back when the heavy thing must be lifted and the light thing dragged down.

 

I don't understand what you mean there, can you expand on that a little more?

[ydoaPs]

I don't understand what you mean there, can you expand on that a little more?

The energy that you get from an object falling is stored in the object by raising it. You can't get more energy out of it falling than you got from raising it(unless you have it fall farther down than the height you raised it). Add in friction and other losses, and this contraption will not work.

[total_chaos5]

The energy that you get from an object falling is stored in the object by raising it. You can't get more energy out of it falling than you got from raising it(unless you have it fall farther down than the height you raised it). Add in friction and other losses, and this contraption will not work.

 

How would that matter though since the forces are working together? on the left side the gases would apply a force upward and on the right side the gases are applying a downward force. This would result in a turning motion since the forces are working together.

[lemur]

Well I'm just wondering if it will work. I'm just as big of a skeptic as you guys. Theoretically if we overcame the force of friction, wouldn't that mean the conservation of energy law no longer applies? I don't understand where the energy comes from when gases rise/fall in our atmosphere. Maybe someone can explain this to me, but when I see a helium balloon rising it really makes me think.

I find the easiest way to think about buyancy is to think about the denser particles of air or water falling down around the buyant object and pushing it up as a result. Think about a bubble of air rising through the water. It's not that the bubble is actually rising as much as it is the case that water above the bubble is falling into the bubble the same way it would fall into an empty container. As the surrounding water falls into the bubble, it forces the air upward where more water falls into it, etc. The net effect is that the bubble/air rises, but the cause is the heavier water falling and pushing it up. This is the same reason a helium balloon rises. The atmospheric air is falling around it and piling up below it, pushing it higher. How much power do you think falling air has compared with, say, wind?

[losfomot]

Could it be possible to create a cylindrical container having two sides light air(less dense) and the other side heavy air(more dense). The sides are separated by another cylindrical container. Inside this container theres compartments of medium dense gas. When the gas turns to the light side it fall creating a downward force, on the heavy side the gas would rise to create an upward force. The resulting force would continuously spin the inside container which could be attached to a turbine or a generator of some kind.

 

I don't understand how the medium dense gas would interact with the other gasses if it is in a separate cylinder?

[total_chaos5]

How much power do you think falling air has compared with, say, wind?

Agreed, but it can be optimized with different substances. Take for example using water instead of heavy gas, Water would apply a VERY significant force compared to any gas. Trust me I'm not ready to hit the shelves with this anytime soon, just spit balling ideas to help better our world.

 

 

I don't understand how the medium dense gas would interact with the other gasses if it is in a separate cylinder?

 

Like a helium balloon in the atmosphere. I'm not sure what material I would use, but I'm positive there are many optimal materials on the market.

[Newbies_Kid]

Gases are not dense compared to liquid and solid, their molecular distance is far between each other.. so i can't really imagine the mechanics of the system. i think the efficiency over volume is very low because those gas will just diffuse between each other... hwever i love this idea.

[John Cuthber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy0UBpagsu8