Kerry's Purple Hearts

[-Demosthenes-]

There has been some talk on the subject, and of course I didn't really believe any of it, but then I did some reading...

 

First Purple Heart:

From: http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200405041626.asp

I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

The wound was covered with a bandaid.

Yeah folks that would be 3 to 4 MILIMETERS tenths of a centimeter, that doesn't seem like a very hurtful wound to me.

From: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_pur_hrts.htm

"It was not a very serious wound at all," recalled William Schachte, who oversaw the mission and went on to become a rear admiral.

It seems he agrees with me.

Kerry agrees himself (from:http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/04/27/Politics/Purple.Hearts.Three.And.Out-656749.shtml)

According to Kerry's own description in Douglas Brinkley's Tour of Duty, the Dec. 2, 1968, mission behind what he has claimed to be his first Purple Heart was "a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat." Indeed.

If he was hurt... (From:http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_pur_hrts.htm)

Kerry, he had three Purple Hearts. None of them took him off duty.

Kerry's wounds were not considered serious

From: http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/04/27/Politics/Purple.Hearts.Three.And.Out-656749.shtml

"They didn't receive enemy fire," Hibbard tells Insight. Since this was an essential requirement for the award, the commander rejected Kerry's request.

He didn't even recieve enemy fire? (from same site)

Shortly thereafter, Kerry was transferred to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi. Apparently, Kerry petitioned to have his Purple Heart request reconsidered.

Oh I guess he got it anyway, sneaky little devil.

Same site:

After receiving a Purple Heart for the March 13 scratch and bruise, Kerry sought an early pass out of combat duty...According to Galvin, it was Kerry who told him, "There's a rule that gets you out of here and I'm getting out. You ought to do the same."

Yeah, he is definitely a model soldier.

 

It seems that much of his war record is embellished, exaggerated, and some of it just false.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Why does it matter what he did in Vietnam? Does it affect what he does now?

[-Demosthenes-]

It reflects his character. If he was dishonest 30 or 40 years ago, whay makes you think he isn't dishonest now. I don't want a dishonest president.

[Phi for All]

I'd still argue that actually being in Vietnam (Purple Hearts or not) is rather more gutsy in terms of military service than the Air National Guard (fulfilled or not), but since the debates are coming up, perhaps we should move past this squabble about military service.

 

Personally I'm a little more interested in this whole PNAC thing. I've long felt that the Democrats have sold out to big business concerns, and now it sounds like the neo-cons are undermining the Republicans.

 

I can't help but feel things like abortion-stance and military service are becoming smoke-screens for bigger issues.

[Douglas]

It reflects his character. If he was dishonest 30 or 40 years ago, whay makes you think he isn't dishonest now. I don't want a dishonest president.

What reflected his character, was the comments he made before the senate in 1971.

 

However, that was yester year.

[-Demosthenes-]

Agreed, even so it seems important to have a president that is loyal and honest towards the country, characteristics that Kerry seems to lack in certain ways.

[Phi for All]

Seriously, guys, if you're saying what happened 30 years ago reflects on presidential character, where does drug abuse, alcohol abuse and having your Texas State driving records sealed up in Daddy's presidential library fit in?

[Douglas]

Agreed, even so it seems important to have a president that is loyal and honest towards the country, characteristics that Kerry seems to lack in certain ways.

I might add that Kerry never released his military records, if he *does* release them, we'll know more about his purple hearts.

[-Demosthenes-]

Seriously, guys, if you're saying what happened 30 years ago reflects on presidential character, where does drug abuse, alcohol abuse and having your Texas State driving records sealed up in Daddy's presidential library fit in?

And how does anyone know this is true?

[Phi for All]

I might add that Kerry never released his military records, if he *does* release them, we'll know more about his purple hearts.

Are you talking about these records? http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmils.../Spot_Kerry.pdf

[budullewraagh]

I might add that Kerry never released his military records

you have no right to say that because bush is still withholding his records.

 

demosthenes, those were bloody biased and not credible sources. the republicans have no right to speak of vietnam with regard to this election; during vietnam, their candidate was busy getting stoned, drunk and sitting on the little throne his father had carved for him at the expense of the blood of the poor.

[Phi for All]

And how does anyone know this is true?

drugs: http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#cocaine

alcohol:http://www.bushwatch.com/dwi2.htm

driving records:http://foi.missouri.edu/bushinfopolicies/guberrecs.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0423-03.htm

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=3932

 

It's weird, wouldn't you say, how so many of Bush's records are lost or unavailable. It's almost as if there's some kind of cover up going on.

[Mad Mardigan]

What did oh Hanoi John do to help the cause in Vietnam?

 

 

Photograph of John Kerry meeting with Comrade Do Muoi, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, in Vietnam. Photo displayed in the War Remnants Museum (formerly the "War Crimes Museum") in Saigon. The June 2, 2004, edition of "Viet Nam News" is held beside the Kerry photograph to confirm the date the photo was taken. English-language placard below photograph reads: "Mr. Do Muoi, Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party met with Congressmen and Veterans Delegation in Vietnam (July 15-18, 1993)."

[LucidDreamer]

This is foolish. My grandfather received a Purple Heart during WW2. His wound was moderately serious. Would he have been a coward if it had just been a minor wound? He was being shot at and blown up, risking his life whether he was seriously wounded or not. Anyone that risks their life so that other people can sit on their butts at home and make disparaging remarks about their service record deserves respect. Can either one of you guys say that you risked your lives daily in the rice patties of Vietnam? You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

The only reason in the world that these people are attacking a decorated Vietnam vet is because there is so much money and power on the line. They would claim that his grandmother was a pedophile if they thought it would influence the election in their favor. And don’t doubt that they could spin it so that it all but appeared certain that she was one.

 

And what the heck is that newspaper clipping suppose to mean mad? That John Kerry is a communist? Is that kind of like calling him a longhaired hippie communist? Reagan visited the USSR where he met with lots of communist representatives. Does that make him a communist too? That's so silly.

 

I am going to vote for Kerry this election but I don't fall for all the silly democratic propaganda against Bush. The people who run these elections have tied a string to your emotions and they are yanking you around like a puppeteer

[Douglas]

Are you talking about these records? [url']http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmils.../Spot_Kerry.pdf[/url]

Hey Phi, I'm chuckling, you've got a lot of balls sending me to Kerry's website for his military records.

I got this from the Chicago Suntimes.

The DD214 form, an official Defense Department document summarizing Kerry's military career posted on johnkerry.com, includes a "Silver Star with combat V."

 

But according to a U.S. Navy spokesman, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star." http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips27.html

[budullewraagh]

ok, who are you going to trust, written primary source documents or some voter whore's words?

 

Photograph of John Kerry meeting with Comrade Do Muoi, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, in Vietnam. Photo displayed in the War Remnants Museum

i fail to see the validity of that image. kerry met a communist leader. ashcroft met sadaam husein. reporters met osama bin laden. whats the problem?

[drz]

ahh, I'm getting tired of this same old played out issue.

 

Pretend Kerry never had a purple heart. What do you have to gripe about.

 

Also, you need to realise that purple heart is given to any soldier that is wounded in combat. THe only people saying kerry never saw combat, are people who never served with him.

 

The Swift Vet boat of liars is comprised of several people, none of which, with the exception of Steven Gardener, served with kerry. The only complaints they have about Kerry is what he told the Senate and his protest of the war.

 

However, simply serving in the military, being in a close vicinity of war, in my book qualifies as a hero. So I ask again, take away the medals, what did he do that was so bad? How about a soldier who never earned any medals? Is he suddenly a liar if he decides to run for president?

 

Regardless, the only people who believe this swift boat of liars group, are people who blindly follow other things anyhow. Their claims have been completly debunked, trying looking through the politics section at http://www.snopes.com

[Pangloss]

My perspective as a Florida undecided swing voter:

 

He went. Stuff happened. He has the documentation, that's the end of the story. Maybe he abused the system, and he certainly didn't go to Cambodia, but I don't see any other relevence here.

 

John McCain vouches for him. That's good enough for me.

[Douglas]

Regardless, the only people who believe this swift boat of liars group, are people who blindly follow other things anyhow.

If you want to be credible, you shouldn't make statements like the above.

[drz]

Well Doug, honestly, the statement is quite true. The Swift Boat veterans for truth group has been all but debunked. The only way one can truly hold such claims as true, is by ignoring the obvious facts. The only people that do this, are people that have done this.

 

If stating the facts defines me as uncredible, then so I am.

 

But what is sad is that you can find nothing else to dispute.

[budullewraagh]

douglas, credibility isn't necessarily a product of nonpartisanship.

[Douglas]

Well Doug' date=' honestly, the statement is quite true. The Swift Boat veterans for truth group has been all but debunked. The only way one can truly hold such claims as true, is by ignoring the obvious facts. The only people that do this, are people that have done this.

 

If stating the facts defines me as uncredible, then so I am.

 

But what is sad is that you can find nothing else to dispute.[/quote']

Hey, how sad do you figure it is? Let's see now...let me quote you

Regardless, the only people who believe this swift boat of liars group, are people who blindly follow other things anyhow.

Re-read your statement...it's a joke.

 

Now, if you would have qualified that statement with a prefix like......"in my opinion". It would have been just fine.

[Douglas]

douglas, credibility isn't necessarily a product of nonpartisanship.

Good one budullewraagh......how true.

[budullewraagh]

thank you

[atinymonkey]

Yeah' date=' he is definitely a model soldier.

 

It seems that much of his war record is embellished, exaggerated, and some of it just false.[/quote']

 

Your talking about an armed force that gives distinguished service medal for simply staying in the army more than 5 years or for not having more than 10 days off sick a year. There are cooks more highly decorated than combat veterans. It's not Kerry's fault that they hand out medals on set criteria. He still stormed a rocket position single handed, and more than that he voluntarily put himself into Vietnam in the first place.

 

My Grandfather was a supply officer in Cyprus at one point in the second world war. A supply officer that didn't see any direct combat.That seems a little flat, doesn't it? Nothing to get exicited about, no small boat under fire from communist forces, no heroics, no war wounds. However, getting supplys to and from Cyprus was critical to the effort in North Africa and Cyprus was a hellhole to operate in. It was so important a role that a film was made about the events with the supply officer as the central role. The point is, you really can't damn a man as a liar or a coward just because he doesnt conform to your idea of a hero. The navy clased Kerry as a hero four times over and despite what injurys he actually incurred I'm more inclined to take the navys word for it. It's that simple.