Something about the little bible banger club people.

[MR. Science]

Well firstly let me explain something, in order for this forum to remain at a valuable state, and this is my first post on this forum and I ahve been studying you guys for a while and this forum could use some cleanup, do not ever threaten creationists or give them terms on how they can behave, if anything they should be giving you terms, time and time again everyday all day non stop creation of the universe is proven true like it or not, and you can choose to make a counter theory or explanation for everything that creationists come up with as being of devine design, fact is people are getting more and more afraid to step up the plate and start telling the truth and believing the truth before its too late, and for those who have anything negative to say about creationists need to be quiet and stop running there mouth because its going to cost them dearly one they, AS THEY SAY IF you have nothing good to say keep your mouth shut, and the anti creationists need to learn that,

 

 

Im sorry on the such a bad first impression but these individuals just get under my skin, stop going nuts over creationists and get your life and order and see the truth before its too late, we will not develop 7 fingers in 1,000,000 years, we will not be able to fly unless we are genetically modified, stop acting foolish and start living in truth, this goes to all those who irritate creationists, if you disagree with us just keep your mouth shut, its that simple, and im warning all of you, get right with the lord, and if you feel you dont need religion just mind your own business as the lord will never force anybody to believe him so im not going to bash the bible on anyone, but dont try to put you evolution crap in our minds either.

[A Tripolation]

I'm a Christian. You're doing a grave disservice to Jesus by being so rash and hateful. You should be ashamed of your tactics. He would.

 

Creationists simply use dishonest science. That's why biologists get fed up with them.

[mississippichem]

I'm a Christian. You're doing a grave disservice to Jesus by being so rash and hateful. You should be ashamed of your tactics. He would.

 

Creationists simply use dishonest science. That's why biologists get fed up with them.

 

And that's why A Tripolation's perspectives are appreciated and respected here on the forum; it's rational theism. Though many of us are atheists [myself included] we have no problem with belief in a god, however this is a science forum and only scientific viewpoints on the origin of the universe are deemed acceptable here. One can easily be a Christian and embrace mainstream science, A Tripolation is a prime example.

 

Telling people in the forum to "stop being foolish" and "start living the truth" is frowned upon here not only because it is blatant preaching but because it is not a good route to rational discourse. If you have a scientific argument for a young Earth or disputing evolution, I'm sure folks will be glad to listen, comment and debate accordingly. If your argument isn't scientific don't bother; nobody cares.

Edited January 18, 2011 by mississippichem

[skyhook]

Have you heard of people with 6 fingers ? <br>

Edited January 18, 2011 by skyhook

[Bignose]

do not ever threaten creationists or give them terms on how they can behave,

 

If there are any threats posted anywhere, I would hope that people were reporting them to the mods and the person making the threats would be banned. Threats are not common here, and are certainly not allowed.

 

In the same vein, the rules also state that the principles of science have to be adhered to. Creationism, in every incarnation it has taken to date, has not been science. If you can present some science, then please do so. Otherwise, trying to defend a position without science for which there is an alternative for which there is significant scientific evidence is going to be difficult on this forum. The rules of science are very important here.

[Edtharan]

Well firstly let me explain something, in order for this forum to remain at a valuable state, and this is my first post on this forum and I ahve been studying you guys for a while and this forum could use some cleanup, do not ever threaten creationists or give them terms on how they can behave, if anything they should be giving you terms, time and time again everyday all day non stop creation of the universe is proven true like it or not, and you can choose to make a counter theory or explanation for everything that creationists come up with as being of devine design, fact is people are getting more and more afraid to step up the plate and start telling the truth and believing the truth before its too late, and for those who have anything negative to say about creationists need to be quiet and stop running there mouth because its going to cost them dearly one they, AS THEY SAY IF you have nothing good to say keep your mouth shut, and the anti creationists need to learn that,

Although I apreciate that you have strong oppinions, I disagree with them. First of all this is a science forum. This means that the topic here is science and what science has discovered. Not religion.

 

Just as I would expect to be "attacked" if I walked into achurch and started attacking them for their beliefs, one should not expect to be able to enter a place that focuses on science and start attacking it and not have them strike back.

 

Secondly, this site is about debate. That is the purpose her is to debate what people post here. If I posted a message saying that Relativity is true, I would expect it to be debated and have my posts and knowledge questioned.

 

So to come in here and post a complaint that people who post about repligion and anti science, and then have those posts debated are some how being done a disservice is to completely and utterly miss the point of this site.

 

Science is about disagreement and debate. That is how it works and also why it is so successful (everything you see around you is the product of our scientific knowledge). Without the success of science you would not even have the ability to post on this site about your oppinions. With science, there is a built in "Reality Check" that goes on through the requierment to prove (or more correct - disprove) an explaination of a claim.

 

The first thing is that one has to prove that the phenomina under examination exists. It is pointless to try and come up with an explaination for something, if that thing does not actually exist. As an example: If I tried to come up with an explaination of why leprechauns wear green. It would be pointless becauase leprechauns don't actually exist, and so can't wear green.

 

The other part of science is about disproving a particular explaination. The reason for this is that if something is not correct, or we have something that is more correct, then we should use that instead of using what is false. As an example, take "Cold Fusion". Some researchers came up with what they thought was a valid theory and experiment that proved cold fusion was real and how we could harness it. However, this became subject to the scientific process, and it turned out that these researchers had got it wrong. If we had proceeded on the assumption that just because these were people in authority and they knew more than we did about such things and attempted to build comercial cold fusion reactors to power the world, then we could have lost billions, if not trillions of dollars on something that just didn't do anything.

 

It was because science requiered them to first prove the phenomina they were claiming exists, and then this proof was subject to disproof that we avoided loosing a massive amount of money and resources on something that didn't work.

 

However, on the flip side of this is that if a phenomina can be shown to exist, and the explaination is correct, then it gives us the ability to exploit the phenomina for our advantage. As an example of this is electricity. It was shown that the phenomina of electricity exists, and the theories of what it is and how it works has allowed us to use in in devices from electric ovens, lights, electric motors, music to computer and many many more. If we didn't have the theory of electricity, none of these things could have been made.

 

The problem with creationists is that the calims they are making have not been proved to exist, and there are phenomina that exists that actually disprove their claims. So, look at it from what I was explaining above.

 

First one has to prove that the phenomina exists. The creationists have faild to do this.

 

Second the claims have to stand up to disproof. Creationsists have failed this too, as there is direxct evidence against their claims.

 

Im sorry on the such a bad first impression but these individuals just get under my skin, stop going nuts over creationists and get your life and order and see the truth before its too late, we will not develop 7 fingers in 1,000,000 years, we will not be able to fly unless we are genetically modified, stop acting foolish and start living in truth,

I will direct you to something called a "Straw Man Argument" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument ).

 

What this is is an argument, either intentionally or unintentionally, mis representes the position of people you are argueing against and then directing your arguments against that misrepresentation rather than addressing the actual position of the people you are debating.

 

As such, evolution does not claim that we will grow 7 fingers in 1,000,000 years. As such the attempt to support your argument by stateing this is therefore a strawman argument. It also does not claim that we will evolve to fly either, and so that too is a strawman argument.

 

As you said: "stop acting foolish and start living in truth".

 

A Strawman argument is foolish and is not the truth. So by making that statement you have does exactly what you are wanting us not to do. This is hypocritical and is not a good argument. Not only that, it weakens any valid argument that might be put forward by someone (including you) that is arguing for your position. It indicates that you don't take your position seriously and you are not "following what you preach". So why should we do what you say, if even you don't do it? Why you exempt from the behaviour you are saying is right?

 

this goes to all those who irritate creationists, if you disagree with us just keep your mouth shut, its that simple,

So are you for freedom of speech? Should someone be allowed to express their oppinion? If so, why can't other people express their oppinion? If someone have evidence against your oppinion, are they allowed to state that?

 

And, can someone come into a church and express their oppinion for all to hear that is counter to what the church claims, especially if they have evidence to support their counter claims?

 

If you answered yes to any of these, then you can't come here and tell us to "just keep your mouth shut". You could come here and make claims to support creationism. You could come here and state how it annoys you that people don't believe things you believe, but you can't tell them to "shut up" just because you disagree with them.

 

and im warning all of you, get right with the lord, and if you feel you dont need religion just mind your own business as the lord will never force anybody to believe him so im not going to bash the bible on anyone, but dont try to put you evolution crap in our minds either.

Actually, God does force people to believe in Him because it states in the bible that the Heathen (those that don't believe in Him) will be tortured for eternity in Hell.

 

This is a bit like saying you don't have to give a mugger your wallet, you could just let them stab you with a knife instead (but then they would just take it as you lie bleeding in the gutter).

 

To "force someone" is to use violence or threat of violence to get them to do what you want. Torture is violence. As God will tourture someone for not believing in Him (He sends them to Hell), then that is, by definition, forcing someone to believe in Him. So claiming that God would never force someone to believe in Him might be a nice sentiment, it is clearly false as the bible gives direct evidence against it, and I guess that you are not going to say that the bible is wrong as it is supposed to be a work of God (and God is supposed to be perfect so would not have made a mistake in the bible).

 

Lastly, justbecause you don't want to accept something does not mean it is not true. For example, if I was about to be hit by a train, I would not want to believe that it is going to hit me, because if it is not ture, then I will live. However, if a train is really going to hit me, then no matter what I believe, that train is going to hit me.

 

Also, just because I want to beleive something is real does not make it real. I might wnat to believe that you owe me a million dollars, but does that mean that you reallly owe me a million dollars? No. of course not.

 

To put it simply: "Reality trumps everything".

 

Now, you might not want to believe that Evolution is real, but that does not make it false. You might also want to believe that evolution is ant-religious. Actually evolution has absolutly nothing to say either for or against religion. In other words, even if evolution is 100% true, then it makes no impact as to whether God is real or not.

 

This means that the objection from religion to evolution is either a misunderstanding about evolution, or is a lie perpetrated by people who have an agender to suvert your religious beliefs away from what you believe.

 

As the God of the bible is supposed to be omnipotent, then it is perfectly possible for Him to use evolution. The fact that you are using a religious position as a counter argument against evolution (ie: evolution is not real because I want to believe differently), then this means that either you don't actually understand evolution (and your objection is based on a lie/strawman) or those people who are attempting to subvert your beliefs have succeeded.

 

If yourt objection to it is through a misunderstanding, then telling people who try to correct this mistake to "shut up" is the worst thing you could do. If you have been subject to the subversion of those that want to corrupt you, then the worst thing you can do is to tell the people who are trying to help you defeat these people to "shut up".

 

It is only by listening to people, even if you ultimately disagree with them, and trying to learn will you ever be able to gain any knowledge of the truth. As you seem to want us to gain knowledge of the truth, and we seem to be doing the only thing that will gaurntee that, and you are doing the best possible thing to avoid it, then who do you think is more likely to learn the truth: Someone who refuses to learn anything new and tells everyone else to "shut up", or those that constantly seek to learn and to test what they think they know as truth.

 

Science is about testing what we think is true to see if it really is true (hence the need to prove the phenomnia exists and for an explaination to be subject to disproof). Where as the attitdue of: "It is not what I bleieve so just shut up", is not going to let you learn anything.

 

Sure, accepting that you might be wrong is a very uncomfortable thing to accept. Nobody likes to think that they have fallen ofr someone lie. But, if you have been duped, then it is more important to learn of it and correct the mistake than pretending that, even though you are wrong, you are right.

 

Now, in this response, I am not trying to say that one side or the other is right or wrong. What I am trying to say is that the important thing is to considder other people's oppinions and to constantly test your oppinions against reality to make sure that you have not made a mistake (as to err is human) or that you have not been tricked by someone else.

 

Think of all the people who get tricked by scammer and con artists every day. If these people had just checked what they want to believe against reality, then they would not have been fooled by them. The scammers and con artists could not exist if everyone did this. This shows that people tend not to check things and easily accept what they want to believe. This is why it is vitally important for us to take on a scientific way of thinking, it means we will be able to prevent crime and reduce suffering of the vicims from those crimes. Is that not a good thing to do?

 

Oh, and if you want a religious reason to think scientifically:

 

If you believe that God gave us our intelligence, then in the bible it is a sin to refuse to use a gift God gives you. So not using your intelligence is a rejection of the gift God gave you. But, using your intelligence is accepting the gift God gave you.

 

Also, the reason God gave such a gift could be seen as obvious. God is supposed to speak only truth, where as the devil will use lies, the only way to detect a lie is to see if it claims something that is counter to reality. Thus, the only way to prevent the devil from corrupting us is to question everything, even that which we would like to believve is true and including what we think is true. In other words, to think scientifically.

[ydoaPs]

Well firstly let me explain something, in order for this forum to remain at a valuable state, and this is my first post on this forum and I ahve been studying you guys for a while and this forum could use some cleanup, do not ever threaten creationists or give them terms on how they can behave, if anything they should be giving you terms, time and time again everyday all day non stop creation of the universe is proven true like it or not, and you can choose to make a counter theory or explanation for everything that creationists come up with as being of devine design, fact is people are getting more and more afraid to step up the plate and start telling the truth and believing the truth before its too late, and for those who have anything negative to say about creationists need to be quiet and stop running there mouth because its going to cost them dearly one they, AS THEY SAY IF you have nothing good to say keep your mouth shut, and the anti creationists need to learn that,

 

 

Im sorry on the such a bad first impression but these individuals just get under my skin, stop going nuts over creationists and get your life and order and see the truth before its too late, we will not develop 7 fingers in 1,000,000 years, we will not be able to fly unless we are genetically modified, stop acting foolish and start living in truth, this goes to all those who irritate creationists, if you disagree with us just keep your mouth shut, its that simple, and im warning all of you, get right with the lord, and if you feel you dont need religion just mind your own business as the lord will never force anybody to believe him so im not going to bash the bible on anyone, but dont try to put you evolution crap in our minds either.

Hello, and Welcome to Science Forums. Please read the rules to which you agreed upon registration and our STRONGLY encouraged Etiquette guidelines. If you don't like how the site is operated, you can try to be a bit more constructive. However, registering just to complain about us not stooping down to the levels of AiG is probably not going to give you much weight. I've been here for a VERY long time; if I complain(or anyone who doesn't appear to have joined just to grind an axe) it's considered. Then again, I'm a bit more rational in my complaints.

 

You might also want to learn what evolution actually says before you go criticizing a straw man; It'll make you look less ridiculous. Luckily for you, I happen to have some useful links handy:

What is evolution?

Introduction to Evolutionary Biology

And a long list of rebuttals to pretty much everything someone like you is bound to bring up.

[swansont]

Well firstly let me explain something, in order for this forum to remain at a valuable state, and this is my first post on this forum and I ahve been studying you guys for a while and this forum could use some cleanup, do not ever threaten creationists or give them terms on how they can behave, if anything they should be giving you terms, time and time again everyday all day non stop creation of the universe is proven true like it or not, and you can choose to make a counter theory or explanation for everything that creationists come up with as being of devine design, fact is people are getting more and more afraid to step up the plate and start telling the truth and believing the truth before its too late, and for those who have anything negative to say about creationists need to be quiet and stop running there mouth because its going to cost them dearly one they, AS THEY SAY IF you have nothing good to say keep your mouth shut, and the anti creationists need to learn that,

 

 

Im sorry on the such a bad first impression but these individuals just get under my skin, stop going nuts over creationists and get your life and order and see the truth before its too late, we will not develop 7 fingers in 1,000,000 years, we will not be able to fly unless we are genetically modified, stop acting foolish and start living in truth, this goes to all those who irritate creationists, if you disagree with us just keep your mouth shut, its that simple, and im warning all of you, get right with the lord, and if you feel you dont need religion just mind your own business as the lord will never force anybody to believe him so im not going to bash the bible on anyone, but dont try to put you evolution crap in our minds either.

 

!

Moderator Note

This is a science site, and this post is a good example of the reason that creationism threads get shut down quickly. If you don't want to evaluate the situation scientifically, that's your call. Deny and rant to your heart's content. But it's not going to happen here. Closed.