How should I present a talk on an article?

[CaptainPanic]

I guess I don't understand why it's the professor's responsibility to do research on the article you were assigned to research and present.

Students often (mistakenly) think that professors have any responsibility to help them with assignments if the assignment seems too difficult to the student.

Instead, it's the students' responsibility to get help if they cannot handle the assignment. That means starting the assignment on time, and have some extra time for problems.

You are learning more than just the science. You learn to organize, to plan, to cope with setbacks and unforseen problems, to deal with disappointments, to deal with nasty professors... etc, etc.

 

I remember being a student. Typically, you start an assignment too late. You then have no time for any background work or questions (professors are only in office during office hours and you're making the assignment the evening before it's due)... and then cursing the professor for not spelling out exactly what he needs.

 

Now, several years later I realize the value of those cursed assignments. The customers I get now at my work can be even worse, but I can handle it now.

 

Anyway - bottom line about this presentation... I think everybody must give a bad presentation at some point in their lives (I know I have!) but you have learned some very valuable lessons in presenting:

1. If you do not know your topic inside out, the presentation will not go well.

2. You have the freedom to choose and avoid some topics... unless there are some people in the room who know more about it than you.

3. Nobody is responsible for your work, except you.

[CharonY]

Students often (mistakenly) think that professors have any responsibility to help them with assignments if the assignment seems too difficult to the student.

QFT

 

Many important things have already been mentioned. Regarding undergrad talks: it is rare that a great polished talk is expected. In fact, at the undergrad level talks are often used as a means to gauge the level of understanding as well as ability to fill knowledge gaps of the student. The form and style are also often discussed, but (depending on the prof, of course) rarely the centerpiece of it.

Almost all first talks are (from a style viewpoint) bad. And this is OK, and it forms the basis for improvement. Not understanding the material on a basic level is something different, though.

[timo]

@Genecks: Hmmmm. I didn't write "be sure you understood the paper" because I thought it's too obvious. As for the form of presentation, CharonY is probably right: no one gives really good first talks. Just be sure to learn something, and be it only that you are not capable of something, e.g. giving the talk without looking at your slides all the time. I usually try out something new in every talk (e.g. last time I tested how well I do without having practiced the talk - went surprisingly well). While it seems you learned that you need to understand a paper better before you really understand it (well, the guys spent a year of research into it, it's perhaps not that surprising that the topic isn't trivial on closer look), it's probably nothing to worry too much about for further talks. Giving a talk about someone else's work is a very artificial situation. You usually talk about your own work (and if you don't really understand that, then you've got bigger problems than not being a good speaker).

 

@everyone:

I'm kind of surprised that I seem to be the only one who thinks it is the teacher's responsibility to help a student on such an assignment.

 

In regular lectures, tutorial sessions are held, and the tutors are supposed to answer the students' questions, even when they go beyond the actual homework questions (one of the reason why I do not like the concept of undergrads tutoring other undergrads). Students are also welcome to ask outside of the the meetings (but usually no one does). That's at least the system that I am used to. I am talking about absolute mainstream lectures here, i.e. the answers are usually found in every textbook.

For such a form of lecturing, reading research papers, I would expect a similar supervision. I don't expect the lecturer to offer formal office hours for it so that he can answer questions himself. But at least some poor subordinate should be appointed as a contact person for the students to turn to when questions arise (and I can think of a heap of very appropriate questions there - and be it only "how do I get access to the restricted reference [2]?"). I consider not actively offering a contact to the students as unprofessional. I am not saying that students should have the paper explained to them by a professional. And in particular, offering a contact does not exclude that the contact sends the student home with the message that he should read the paper more carefully rather than wasting his time with stupid questions that are clearly answered in the article or a standard textbook. I don't want to comment on the particular case of Genecks (I only know one side's statement, and it's presented in a not-very-objective way). But with the general "you have to do it all by yourself"-attitude I do not agree.

 

Since someone mentioned asking on forums rather than asking the professor: I fully disagree. It is not the idea of a university education that people learn their profession in the Internet and only pay their fees to attend the exams and get a piece of paper with a stamp on it, afterwards. It is certainly ok to ask for advices on the Internet, especially on "soft skills" like giving a good talk, using TeX, ..., where perfection is not required and "somehow works" suffices. Or possibly even on science that is not strictly within your own field of study. But just look at the sfn speculations forum to see what kind of great minds getting "hard skills" from the Internet produces.

Edited February 3, 2011 by timo

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

@everyone:

I'm kind of surprised that I seem to be the only one who thinks it is the teacher's responsibility to help a student on such an assignment.

I suppose it depends on how it was framed. If if was a student research assignment, in which the student was assigned to learn about the research independently and present it (rather than presenting something relevant to what's taught inc lass), I don't see why the teacher is obligated to do anything besides point the student at available resources.

[CharonY]

I see your point. In the end, it depends on how the lecture was set up. If I have e.g. discussed the principles of, say, an analytical method in class, I like to evaluate how well students have understood it by giving them a paper that inserts a little twist on the method. What I want to see is whether they understood the principles well enough to explain what the twist does. Or, lacking that, at least figure out that there was a difference and at least try to figure out what it does. Direct and specific questions will be answered, of course. However questions on the level of "I do not understand, gimme all the material so I can understand it" without any specifications are frowned upon.

I do not think that most here mean that "you have to do it on your own" equals no assistance whatsoever. However, I see my main role as a guide, not as a spoon feeder.

[Genecks]

Somehow I got an A on the speech.

 

I'm definitely going to have to drink more coffee and watch out for actions my superiors commit. I'm going to need a good pair of running shoes.

 

In relevance to how I went about it besides political/academic bickering:

 

I think I gave a decent introduction to the material. I basically stated how the bat uses its echolocation in nature and how scientists developed a desire to understand it. I emphasized discussion on the methods over and over. I re-iterated terms, such as temporary chemical ablation, because I was (and I do this when I give speeches these days) trying out a new style of speech I'm playing with where I tautologically re-iterate concepts and parts of the main ideas in attempt to prevent the audience from requiring review on the speech from beginning.

 

This came from some of the discussions here about how a person cannot go back to the beginning of a speech. So, I move forward a little, find a way to recap things again, and keep doing that until the end. I could imagine a mathematical way to describe this as a string with loops that tend to vary in size as the stringer moves forward: Each loop resembles a re-iteration of a particular amount of content that was previously mentioned in the speech.

 

I think I did fairly well. However, the fact that there were truly many concepts that I did not understand had prevented me from doing the best that I could. And that bothered me. However, at the same time, it's true that people in my particular major are not required to take particular physics classes, and I was unable to understand some audio physics in the paper due to my lack of physics knowledge.

 

What bothered me, however, about a couple of weeks after giving the speech was learning how the professor truly has not been aware of what the major's curriculum is and what courses we do and do not take as students within the major... That's kind of bad, seeing as how he controls graduate admissions for the graduate-level of the major...

 

Knowing what articles there were to present, I wouldn't have picked the one he gave me due to me knowing I could not understand all that was involved. Definitely there were more simple papers to pick.

 

-----

In relation to being a guide:

 

I see my role as, "I will help you to the point I know that if I help you any more, you'll not really have accomplished anything new, gained any new skills, or found a way to do things on your own." And then there are points where I notice, "A communitarian effort here will save all of us time and effort. No time for b.s. here, folks. Let's get things done."

 

And then I sometimes think, "I doubt you'll ever see this problem again, and me answering it for you will help you learn more than anyone is currently teaching you. Here is the answer."

 

I've learned to research things, use electronic databases, give speeches (I've had speech, rhetoric, and acting classes before), and so on. Personally, I didn't really learn anything new from this situation except professors become increasingly absent-minded and lack knowledge of computer technology.

 

He more than likely knows nothing about my prior educational experience, so a professor might assume I've never taken a speech class. As such, they might attempt to use "tough love" and make me do everything myself.

 

If I was over-seeing a student who has had a speech class, and I know this, I wouldn't jack them around. Maybe only to see how good their skills still are (if anything).

 

QFT

 

Many important things have already been mentioned. Regarding undergrad talks: it is rare that a great polished talk is expected. In fact, at the undergrad level talks are often used as a means to gauge the level of understanding as well as ability to fill knowledge gaps of the student. The form and style are also often discussed, but (depending on the prof, of course) rarely the centerpiece of it.

Almost all first talks are (from a style viewpoint) bad. And this is OK, and it forms the basis for improvement. Not understanding the material on a basic level is something different, though.

 

This might be a more realistic reason as to not help students at the level I am at. I've read and heard about particular advanced-level classes that are used to prepare students for other universities before they kick them out of the door with their degree. Perhaps this class acts as a reminder and a skill-set reviewer.

 

I would wish that if this is their intention, they'd actually state this kind of thing, though. I believe in transparency. Not a lot of people do.

 

I've had professors who act more communitarian than simply say, "I don't really have to help you if I don't want to." It seems that things go incredibly smooth in those communitarian instances. Many people learn and learn well. And people do show excellence.

 

Technically, I believe professors still have to if I come to visit them during office hours (some kind of academic law for public schools where I am if not academic policy). But otherwise, they don't have to in any other way. As such, they're often stringent about their office hours and allowing people to such hours. In this situation, not even the teaching assistant could help me, because the teaching assistant did not have access to the resources until much later on.

 

In truth, I've stopped relying on TAs in any form or fashion, because I find most (that I've come across) to be lacking in the ability to help individuals accomplish goals for themselves: This university has a complete plague of this issue. Rarely do you get a TA with some wits. They're trying to fix this issue by hiring people who show excellent communication and people skills rather than stone-cold logic. Progress is slow.

 

I suppose it depends on how it was framed. If if was a student research assignment, in which the student was assigned to learn about the research independently and present it (rather than presenting something relevant to what's taught inc lass), I don't see why the teacher is obligated to do anything besides point the student at available resources.

 

It was surely something relevant to what is taught in class. Basically, all of us students are assigned to take on part of the various lectures the professor gives (at least this appears the theme), and give the talks that he would have been giving.

 

This isn't a whole independent research thing, such as me going out to understand BERA analysis and giving a talk about it. Definitely under a situation like that, that would be something I'd be doing on my own. It's one of those situations where I might say, "I can't expect the professor to have any knowledge of this. As such, I'm completely on my own."

 

And I wouldn't expect the professor to give any advice, help, info on a situation like that, particularly at the level I am at. That would be my job as an advanced academic, and it would really be wasting the professor's time and ruining the audience experience.

 

If you are going to do public speaking, you might join a Toastmasters Club. Toastmasters Clubs make people experts in public speaking by having them speak and giving the feed back...

 

Hello, Goddess Athena.

 

I'll consider that. I do need to work on my auditory learning and oratory skills. Perhaps it could do me some good.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Genecks