Nicotine Tapering Method to Quit Smoking

[tar]

Thread,

 

Still not smoking.

 

Had a couple powerful craves over the weekend and I wanted to share an insight that might help somebody understand why they want to pick up a cigarette.

 

This is just a guess, but it makes sense to me based on the idea of dopamine being a natural part of our systems, and central to a number of seek/reward complex mechanisms in our brains that spur us to take one action rather than another. The wiki article on dopamine laid out two types of dopamine in the brain, one that inhibited unwanted action and one that facilitated desired action. There was also mention of dopamine made in parts of the body outside the brain, that could not cross the brain/blood barrier that facilitated certain activity elsewhere in the body.

 

Insight was, that the dopamine complex in the brain, sets up sort of a seek/find situation where the "right" action is rewarded. My guess would allow this same mechanism to be behind question/answer, seek/find, plan/acheive, itch/scratch, teasing/reaching orgasm, getting the joke, solving the riddle, and other similar, species wide seek/find type of activities.

 

But here is where the insight is related to this thread. Smoking a cigarette is a cheat. It is a way to simulate the find portion of the complex, the reward, without having to do the seeking. Ultimately this is not any more satisfying then actually completing the puzzle, but you can pretend you have completed the puzzle while you are doing the puzzle, by taking a drag.

 

The two times I had a powerful crave, were one, when I was thinking about how I would feel to have a job again, and two, when I conceived of a course of investigation that would be rewarding, but it would take a lot of work and steps to reach the goal. In both cases, I think the thought of the nicotine, making it past the blood/brain barrier and attaching to the nicotine receptors and releasing the reward dopamine (without having to wait for the actual find) was seductive. I was able to not go that route, in both cases by telling myself, that if I wanted the answer to that particular question, I would have to actually find the answer, and the drag of the cigarette would be a false or cheating way to get the reward. Thus, the insight was that there is a reason why smokers in the middle of solving a complicated equation might chain smoke, to keep faking the reward of solving it. Not a bad strategy, except for the cost (in health, money, stink free air for your loved ones, personal freedom and control of yourself.)

 

Better to just look at a picture of your loving wife in front of the blooming cherry tree, take a sip of sugared ice tea, get a little interim dopamine, and continue to work the problem.

 

Regards, TAR

Might be why we like to break down big jobs into small packages. So we can keep completing stuff, all the way through the job. I know when I mow the lawn I go around the perimeter first, so the next round is shorter, and I play a game of trying to estimate, based on the height of the grass, and the distance around, how many rounds I can go before having to be by the compost pile to empty the bag.

Edited June 1, 2015 by tar

[imatfaal]

glad to hear you are still clean! Keep it up - and enjoy the new found fitness.

[tar]

Thread,

 

Still clean. Over 15 months now. A few thoughts.

 

Last week I looked pretty hard at that spare old cigarette I have downstairs. Thought I could smoke it, and no one would know. Except you would know, because I would tell you...and it is a stale old one, and would taste crumby...and I would have nicotine in my system again and would have to get it, and the memory of the dopamine release, out of my mind again...and Phi said, its just not an option. I didn't smoke it.

 

But I saw a commercial for some nicotine gum or smoking replacement product of some sort, and thought that is probably NOT the way to get off nicotine. By definition it is not a way to get off nicotine. You are not smoking, but you are still hooked on nicotine.

 

Visited a renovated convenience store where I used to buy my Newports. Saw some smokeless tobacco on the shelf behind the cash registers. That's not smoking...but its getting back hooked on nicotine...NOT AN OPTION.

 

Saw a commercial to help young people avoid cigarettes, with this dangerous looking creature in the lab chasing the kids out of the room, saying that if you thought of cigarettes as this dangerous, you wouldn't smoke them. I think its OK to have these commercials, but I do not think they are realistic. Maybe the woman talking through her throat was effective, as it showed the long term bad effects that could happen, but many people smoke for years and don't die of heart disease or cancer. Like my Pop Pop who lived well into his 80s and just died of nursing home, two weeks after his daughters put him there.

 

Problem is, that smoking feels good, you really do get that dopamine, and people that smoke, don't want to hear the crap and the fear tactics and have an "intervention", they just want to feel good, and have their cigarette.

 

But I am here to tell anyone thinking that they don't want to smoke any more, for whatever reason, that you should just stop. Not for me, not for society, not for the kids in the car, but for you. So you don't stink, so you don't develop breathing issues, so you are not spending your hard earned dollars on a drug habit, yes, but the main reason is that you don't want to be controlled by someone else, you want to have control of yourself. The dopamine release you get when you finish a project or see a pretty/handsome body, or a lovely sunset, or a lush green plant or flower or when you win a game, or fix the broken thing, is the exact, the EXACT same dopamine you get when you take a drag of a cigarette, or chew the gum or wear the patch. You don't need the cheating way to get the dopamine. It is freely available by just enjoying this place and the people and animals and plants that inhabit it.

 

Spend your money and your time and your energy making the place nice and preparing food, and planting gardens, and building stuff, and creating beautiful things and making people smile and be safe and warm. There is a lot of free dopamine out there to be had. Make the nicotine way of getting dopamine, not an option.

 

Spend the first hour of some day you don't have to really do anything, NOT smoking, and see if you can live without nicotine. Just see if you can make it one hour...or 57 minutes. Then smoke your cigarette. I bet you don't die. And you just might start to see that you could learn to live, without the nicotine.

 

Regards, TAR

nobody wants to live without dopamine

 

anybody can live without nicotine

I am not suggesting you quit dopamine, I am suggesting you quit the nicotine way of getting it. Realize you are psychologically hooked on the stuff, and find a different, less expensive, less harmful way to get dopamine. Learn to live without nicotine.

hey and this vapor stuff...not smoking, but still nicotine

Edited July 14, 2015 by tar

[tar]

Thread,

 

Still clean.

 

Was talking to a friend who is an Army Psychologist about my stopping, and my "way" of learning to live without nicotine. We had a nice conversation and that night, before I went to bed I wrote a list of 100 things that make me feel good, and showed it to him the next day. He liked some of my thinking, and found much was along the lines of what they attempt to do with people who are hooked on drugs or are destructively using alchohol, in terms of "replacement" therapy.

 

My own thinking is that a person likes to be in control of themself and their own situation. To that, being able to provide yourself with pleasure and happiness, and the dopamine, and "feel good", "feel right", "feel victorious", chemicals, without destructive side effects, is the main principle behind my learning how to live without nicotine. Finding the 100 things that make you feel good, that don't cost much, are readily available, and don't cause much damage to yourself or others, that in fact might make others happy as well, is a fine list to think about, a fine "feel good" pursuit, in its own right.

 

To that, here is a rewrite of my list. Its a mixture of examples, and categories. There are, I am sure many, many more examples, in each category and probably some major categories I am forgetting, but I offer this as a starter list. Ways to get dopamine, without nicotine. They might be ways to feel good, instead of taking any destructive chemical and applicable to anybody's attempt to be free of a destructive relationship with a substance. It just so happens that many or most of the ways to feel good, are also good things that foster life and love and happiness and survival and fun and the ejoyment of those around you, as well.

 

100 things that make you feel good.

 

Senses.

 

Sight: Things that look good. Pretty things, beautiful things, colorful, nice shapes, nice proportions. Sky, sea, animals, trees, plants, flowers, birds, minerals, nicely prepared dishes, artwork, ceramics, dresses, paintings, statues.

 

Sound: Things that sound good, in tune music, bells, chimes, voices, singing, humming, laughter, well tuned engine, expected knock on the door, friend driving up/coming up the walk, dog’s hello bark, clapping, cheering.

 

Smell: Perfume, the scent of the opposite sex, bacon cooking, garlic cooking, cakes baking, flowers, ozone, the smell after a rain, autumn, fresh air, pine.

 

Taste: Sweet, savory, lemon, peanut butter cups, juicy hamburger, salt, fat, gravy, fresh fruit, cherry tomatoes, fresh corn.

 

Touch: Hugs, caresses, tickles, soft fur, silk, interesting surfaces, smooth, slippery, interesting shapes.

 

Laughing, dancing, playing, joking, going out to dinner, watching a show/movie, riding a bike/skateboard/trike/roller-blades.

Question/answer.

Hunger/food

Thirst/water

Itch/scratch

Cold/shelter(clothes)

Heat/shade, cave, water

Overcoming aThreat/ fight or flight

Problem/Solution

 

 

Plan/reaching goal.

 

Making:

Completing

Finding

Winning

Solving

Joining

Holding

Having

Escaping

Learning

Sharing

Overcoming

Sorting

Straightening

Washing

Exploring

 

 

Being safe

Being warm

Being rich

Being wanted

Being loved

Being respected

Being needed

Being secure

Being full

Being right

Being capable/big/strong/smart

Being trustworthy

Being free/independent

 

Regards, TAR

hitting a target, giving a gift, getting a gift, solving a problem, helping a friend, helping a stranger, having something work, escaping danger, anticipation of a gift, remembering a success or good time, launching something, starting fresh, imagining...

being in control, knowing the answer

fixing

Edited August 31, 2015 by tar

[oldsinner111]

hello.I get nervous thinking about quiting.My age,I'll keep on smoking.I don't love life as much as others,so I don't worry about end times.I'd rather keep my wits what I have left,than be a nervous,agitated person.

[Thorham]

hello.I get nervous thinking about quiting.My age,I'll keep on smoking.I don't love life as much as others,so I don't worry about end times.I'd rather keep my wits what I have left,than be a nervous,agitated person.

 

What a rubbish excuse

[tar]

oldsinner111,

 

I was worried too, about the effects on my personality that quitting smoking would have. I had a number of excuses. One was my ability to handle stress, as it was always a habit to go out and have a cigarette, when things got complicated. Another was my worrying about what would substitute as a reward, and punctuation for life, the commas and the periods, and the exclamation marks, that smoking a cigarette, provided. Another was smells, as smells would jog memories and reduce my concentration on the task at hand, and smoking dulled that sense and lowered the incidence of random memories.

 

However, as I was without nicotine for longer and longer periods of time, and as I concentrated on the other, free and easy ways of having dopamine released in my brain, I found it easier and easier to do without nicotine, to live without nicotine. The two important things I have to tell you, is one, that you absolutely do not have to give up dopamine, when you give up nicotine, and its the dopamine that you are really craving, and that, you can get, by just cuddling with a loved one or by doing any of the other 99 things on the list. And two, just follow Phi's advice and make nicotine "not an option". It is really not as required for your mental wellbeing as you are convinced it is. Just put the thing down and let it burn in the ashtray and look around and see how many other enjoyable things there are in this world.

 

One of the "stressful" things in life, as a smoker, was worrying about not being able to smoke. How long was the meeting...how long was the flight...would you have time and place to smoke before getting a car...how are you going to light your cigarette if they took your lighter...when is this pack going to run out...how am I going to smoke while visiting a non-smoking house or building or while in a non-smoking vehical...etc.

 

If you don't smoke, those stresses don't even come up. You are already in a good place, you don't have to plan and maneuver to feel good. You are already in a position to get dopamine.

 

It is, in my estimation a problem if there is only one thing that will make you happy. I think they call that obsession, and it is generally considered a problem to be obsessed. Sure you can have some main things that make you happy, but to have only one, is probably not good. Especially if the "happiness" that a cigarette provides you, is chemically very similar, if not identical to the happiness that holding a baby provides.

 

Regardless of your excuses, try not smoking, just for one hour, one morning when you wake up, and have not smoked for 8 hours, and your nicotine levels are low. You managed to have a nice restful sleep and enjoyable dreams while not smoking. See if you can enjoy yourself for one waking hour, without the help of nicotine.

 

I bet you not only won't die, or fly into a rage, but that you will learn a little something about yourself, and your rather unrequired dependance on nicotine. Then smoke, and enjoy it, but know you can go a waking hour, without it. Then another time, when you get up, go two waking hours without it...or as long as you want.

 

Regards, TAR

Edited September 3, 2015 by tar

[tar]

One of the issues with my method, in regards to replacing the drug of choice with the 100 things that make you feel good, was brought up by the psychologist I was speaking to, last week about this nicotine tapering idea, was that most of these things do not provide the "rush" of dopamine that a hit of the drug provides. I am not sure how to counter that reality. I suppose that is where a person just has to work on the really important projects and relationships that will provide "rushes" of dopamine when success is reached. I suppose there is, somewhere in there, an analogy to orgasm. You have to sort of build up to the rush and then have the rush, but there is no such thing as staying in that moment. The answer, by itself, makes no sense, without the question.

 

I can not say that taking a drag on a cigarette will not provide you with a rush of dopamine. It actually will. But there are other victories, and completions, and sensual undertakings that will also provide you with a rush of dopamine. Not as simply and fast as taking the drag on a cigarette. But the other 100 plus things that provide the same dopamine, are real and make sense, and are not a "cheating" way of flooding your brain with dopamine. The "good" ways to get dopamine, are actually good activities, that have good side effects that often can be shared with others. The drug addict is doing sort of a private, fake, general, pleasuring, that is very temporary and nonsustainable. You have to go out and obtain some more drug to have the feeling again. This is expensive and creates a dependency and often some "bad" choices, as far as life sustaining priorities go.

 

Gamblers have the same "problem". They want the rush of the win. They will lose $10,000 to get the rush of winning $1500. Such activity is not sustainable.

 

So I don't know how to counter the draw of the rush. It is not rational. The logic of the situation is not the primary concern for a rush seeker. And I smoked for 47 years, my wife still smokes, and my sister still smokes. What I have to say is not going to replace the feeling they get when they take a drag. The only thing I am asking is "is it worth it?". Might there not be some ways to get close to the same feelings, that are not as expensive, destructive and dependence ridden as taking a hit?

 

Regards, TAR

Edited September 4, 2015 by tar

[Thorham]

Or you could just quit, and bite through the 'hard' times. I've smoked for 25 years. The last five the equivalent of three packs a day. I quit pretty easily. Don't think about it, just do it. Blast this effing garbage out of your mind, and don't make a big issue out of it. It's not an issue at all and you don't need this nonsense for anything.

 

However, if you're not absolutely, 300 percent, motivated then you're doomed to failure.

[tar]

Thread,

 

In a week it will be two years.

 

Quit my job, am still unemployed, my dad had brain surgery, my sister beat breast cancer, my wife got laid off from a job of 33 years, I just had a knee replaced...but I have not smoked.

 

Two things, beyond the "just quit" that Thorham suggests. Use Phi's "not an option" mentality, and get your dopamine from the 100 other ways to get it, that are almost free, not destructive, helpful and pleasant to others, and rewarding in additional ways, where completion, and success and victory and such are in play.

 

I also was able to get through the knee replacement without opioids. A goal that was very important to me, as several family members have had real issues with drug addiction.

 

So I am in good shape, and want to report the effectiveness of the nicotine tapering method.

 

If you are a smoker, go an hour some morning, when there is not a lot of nicotine in your system, without lighting up. See how automatically a cigarette finds its way into your mouth anyway. Find several other ways to laugh and enjoy things, during that hour. Same dopamine. Exact same dopamine that is released by the nicotine receptors...then think about not smoking for another period of time, on another day. You will find, you don't die, if you don't smoke, and that there are other ways to feel good, that are not stinky, expensive, and destructive.

 

Regards, TAR

[Sirona]

Thread,

 

In a week it will be two years.

 

Quit my job, am still unemployed, my dad had brain surgery, my sister beat breast cancer, my wife got laid off from a job of 33 years, I just had a knee replaced...but I have not smoked.

Good for you, mate. It's very inspiring to hear success stories like yours and although I've never been a smoker, my grandmother died a few years ago of Emphysema. I assume it's more difficult to change your habits as you get older too.

 

It's very positive to see that overall the rates of smoking have decreased in Australia for both males and females. The rate fell from 27% in 2001 to 20% in 2011 in males and from 21% to 16% in females. That's a fairly significant decrease over a decade. However, the change occurred in the 18-44 years age group (males and females), remained largely unchanged for women over 55 but with a 3-5% decrease in men over 55.

 

The figures have continued to steadily decrease over the last 50 years.

 

Education is an important factor obviously, however, in Australia the cost of cigarettes has gone up significantly and there is significant data which shows a correlation between increase in taxes and price of tobacco and decreased consumption of tobacco.

 

Sources:

http://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/13-5-impact-of-price-increases-on-tobacco-consumpt

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4125.0main+features3320Jan%202013

 

[tar]

Thread,

 

In a couple of weeks it will be three years. Posting here while I was quitting helped me quite a bit. Thanks again, to Phi and those that gave me support.

 

Over the last couple years I have not acquired a job, and have probably retired if nothing comes along. But I have be volunteering on my town's prevention committee and have gone to a few talks on addiction and opioids. Most recently a talk on the neurobiology of adolescents and how it is affected by addiction.

 

Have not fleshed out my dopamine theory and put numbers to it, but am pretty sure that the dopamine one gets when getting the chills when listening to a particularly moving and powerful piece of music, is probably at least halfway comparable to the rush an addict gets on their hit of cocaine or opioid.

 

Important I think to have more than one thing that makes you happy. Probably an obsession, and destructive if you have but one.

 

Had a knee replaced last March and the other replace in July 2016. Both times, I refused the oxy. Best to not take the stuff, and if you do, stop after 48 or 72 hours, and take something less addictive. Nerontin and Tylenol got me through both surgeries,(after the spinal block administered for the actually operation.) (I had told them I did not want opioids and they followed an appropriate regimen) and the only thing I am hooked on, is caffine. I even stopped, (mostly) playing the option market for the wins.

 

Much of life, I think, can be understood by understanding our dopamine reward system. All addictions, and many dependency situations can be parsed, by following the dopamine.

 

I would like to unofficially suggest or request that anybody in the field, look for ways to "follow the dopamine" when treating addiction.

 

Nobody, can tell someone else what is going to make that other person happy, but there is so much we all have in common when it comes to feeling good, feeling right...and anybody in trouble can probably use an understanding ear.

 

Drugs might not be the best answer. There are so many behavioral ways to approach the problem of happiness.

 

Regards, TAR

P.S. My daughter successfully defended her doctoral dissertation last week. My wife and I attended her talk. Now that is some dopamine one can proudly obtain, that promises to help others in the future as well. Solid dopamine for all the good and right survival reasons we have such a reward system going in the first place.

Edited March 28, 2017 by tar

[CharonY]

With drug addictions I have to add that for various drugs habitual use does not lead to a rush anymore. Rather, it appears that especially with opiate abuse there is a need for it just to be able to function (or feel that they do). It is rather devastating, really. Not taking oxy was probably as a whole a wise decision. And congrats to your daughter for her successful defense.

[tar]

CharonY,

 

Thank you. I am indeed proud.

 

I did notice in the literature, that like you said, addicts need more and more to get a rush, until they OD, sometimes. It does actually feel as if you are going to die if you don't get that dopamine that tells you you are doing it right, surviving. So you hurt others, and destroy your life, in an attempt to feel victorious, on top of the world...when you have actually done it exactly wrong. No fulfilling of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Physiological, safety and security, love and belonging, self esteem, self actualization. You have taken a false shortcut to feel like you are winning, when actually you are going the other way.

 

When I stopped smoking, which was three years ago today, I thought it was going to be bad, because I would never feel good, like the drag of a cigarette would make me feel, ever again. Turns out, I have felt good, a bunch of times, almost continually, since I quit. So I did not give up dopamine. just gave up that one way, nicotine, of getting it.

 

I still have perfect access to working on surviving and fulfilling every level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And I still have 100 ways, inexpensive, legal, low risk and not harmful ways, to feel good. I still have my five senses, I still have a heart, I still have a brain, I still have life.

 

Regards, TAR

Thread,

 

Had an experience last week. We were at Paterson falls, enjoying the new National Park there, and my wife and sister in-law saw a man laying motionless, over, down a hill outside the park away from the river. We were leaving, and they were worried about finding and official, and talking about the guy, and we decided to stay and they showed me the guy, and I agreed that we were probably not being busy bodies, to be concerned. He did not look like he was moving. My wife started to go down and get a better read on the situation, and I followed her around, but three young men came up the hill and I had seen two walking down by the river so I called her off, only to find out when got to the top, that her sister still saw him laying down there. I asked the young men if they had lost a member of their party, but they did not even know the guy was down there, as he was up the hill from the path, behind a big rock. The thought that a tube with two red ends on another flat rock next to the man, was a needle, and we figured he had ODed and died, so we called 911. The ambulance came and drove down a road outside the park toward the man and climbed over and up to him. The police came and then a firetruck. We watched for a long while as they administered CPR, and Narcan. We saw no motion. Although the rescue crew continued to work on him. We left, thinking we had seen a dead man. Later I called the Paterson Police and identified myself as the one that called 911 and asked if the guy had made, it, expecting a no answer. Happily they said yes, he made it. Narcan and the rescuers saved his life, and of course my sister in law and wife's observation and concern.

While we we all watching the events, I told the young men next to us at the fence, "Don't do drugs...ever. Life is too fragile."

The pleasure reward system is tied up with survival indeed. If the drug affects your neurotransmitters to the point that your body does not think there is any reason to take another breath, you don't take another breath, and you will die, if NARCAN is not administered to save your life. In our area of Essex county we are close to port Newark and the heroin is very pure and cheap, There are many in Paterson who get their livelihood, selling heroin to the mostly middle class customers, who have gotten hooked on pain pills and are looking for that inexpensive powerful hit that will make the feel alive. Fentanyl a synthetic opioid, I heard is like 50 times stronger than heroin and sometime it is mixed with heroin to make it more attractive to addicts. In fact when an overdose occurs addicts want to know the brand, so they can get it, the overdose indicating its power.

Edited April 9, 2017 by tar

[tar]

"Carfentanil - 100 times more powerful than Fentanyl - found in Richmond Hill - after 'injured person' call at gas station washroom"

 

Elephant tranquilizer, just a miniscule amount, like 2 milligrams, the size of Lincoln's beard on a penny, can be fatal.

 

Your pleasure/reward system tied up in survival duties like breathing and pumping blood, is so fooled as you don't breath and your heart beat slows...where this stuff goes scores of ODs follow, including fatal ODs.

 

Don't touch this stuff. It is suicide. Like as in you will be dead. No pleasure in that.

 

I talked with my nephew a firefighter in West Virginia about our event at Paterson falls...he has personally administered Narcan and saved 30 lives...in a year.

 

We have a REAL opioid problem. If you know of anyone hooked. Help them get unhooked. It will save their life.

 

Regards, TAR