remote control helicopter

[dragonstar57]

how could a typical remote control helicopter be redesigned to allow it to fly autonomously to preset way points. would some kind of GPS system be necessary or could some other form of navigation be used?

this could be used to transport materials from one place to another

my hope for the system would be that

1. a range of 2-3 miles

2. an altitude of 15-50 feet

3. a cargo capacity of 15-25lbs

Edited January 25, 2011 by dragonstar57

[Spyman]

Make sure to keep your autonomously flying helicopters away from populated areas!

[Xittenn]

I had worked on a team project in high school back in the mid 90s that involved an autonomous droid bot that delivered mail in the school. It was a very difficult project that required a good number of skills be employed. None of the fundamentals have really changed since then and the task is still pretty much the same. To maintain course we had developed a map of the school which the robot would navigate based on its velocity. If it bumped into a wall when it shouldn't sensors set off a warning system. And so on ...

 

The key components to developing something like this are the IO devices and the central processing system. In your case you are going to want to have a consistent input of video and GPS more so the later. GPS can give really accurate mapping information, add an altimeter and away you go; video is good in case someone needs to take control at a control station if say GPS goes offline or something.

 

This sounds like a really easy thing to do, give it GPS and away it goes but it is not. There are no developed software packages for something like this. As funny as this sounds if I were in need of something pre-made and ready to be developed on I would probably use the Source Engine, the one they use for Counter Strike and Half Life. Mock ups could be made of the terrain and collision models developed that would act as indicators for the system to make course corrections based on its assumed position. I say assumed because that is what you are dealing with, GPS locators are good but I'm sure there are issues and the added altitude factor complicates matters.

 

Once you have a processing center that can maintain and control you have to implement the control onto a mechanical system. This requires the knowledge of servo mechanics and robotics and a good knowledge of programmatic IO interfacing and ports. It was my job on the school project to program the interface and construct the port for which I used RS232. You will have to have knowledge of processing devices, the hardware that is required to perform the interfacing with the servo mechanical devices as required by the processing center. This will include knowing how to maintain a proper power source and with the processing power you require regulating the power source will be a tricky part to the equation as I am assuming by autonomous you mean all will be on-board.

 

So to sum this up:

 

1) A software processing center, or a programmatic engine

 

2) A set of IO devices to be used for interfacing the processing center with the servo mechanical devices

 

3) A set of servo mechanical devices that can both control the props and ailerons and provide sufficient feedback to the processing center to keep the device on track

 

4) A source of electrical power for the device, in addition to the source required for flight, that can maintain a well regulated and constant source of voltage and current

 

5) A camera for emergency control situations

 

6) A transponder beacon

 

7) your mothers permission

 

 

o.o

[dragonstar57]

So to sum this up:

 

1) A software processing center, or a programmatic engine

 

would a laptop or other computer work? (does it have to part of the craft?)

3) A set of servo mechanical devices that can both control the props and ailerons and provide sufficient feedback to the processing center to keep the device on track

could a gps like system be set up with ground based signals?

would that give a more accurate signal (my gps does not normally have a link to more than 6 or 7 satellites and as i understand it the more sites you link to the more accurate it is.)

 

4) A source of electrical power for the device, in addition to the source required for flight, that can maintain a well regulated and constant source of voltage and current

could the engine (i was thinking gasoline powered) provide the electrical components with power?

 

5) A camera for emergency control situations

 

6) A transponder beacon

 

what is the transponder for?

[Xittenn]

would a laptop or other computer work? (does it have to part of the craft?)

 

could a gps like system be set up with ground based signals?

would that give a more accurate signal (my gps does not normally have a link to more than 6 or 7 satellites and as i understand it the more sites you link to the more accurate it is.)

 

could the engine (i was thinking gasoline powered) provide the electrical components with power?

 

what is the transponder for?

 

1) A laptop would be heavy and this will all depend on the software you will use. If you use something like Source you will need a Windows based operating system. You could run the necessary software off of something Atom™ ....

 

2) That's really a you issue, what do you wish and how will you finance and so forth ...

 

3 ) With an alternator, but this will still require a good power filtering system as it will be powering a computer processing a lot of information and the processors will probably be maxed in potential

 

4 ) for recovery when your project fails

 

Does Windows 7 Phone have GPS?

[dragonstar57]

4 ) for recovery when your project fails

why do you assume that the failure will be spectacular enough to cause the navigation system not to be enough to recover it?

and why do you assume that failure is unavoidable?

and what is Atom™? google search mostly bring up chemistry pages.

 

would it be possible for the helicopter to lift as much cargo as said in the op?

and again would the ground system be more accurate would it cost more or less?

Edited January 26, 2011 by dragonstar57

[Spyman]

and why do you assume that failure is unavoidable?

In most cases projects much less advanced than this one does not succeed on the first trial.

[dragonstar57]

In most cases projects much less advanced than this one does not succeed on the first trial.

but why would the navigation system not work for the recovery?

[InigoMontoya]

but why would the navigation system not work for the recovery?

 

Because a lot of losses are going to be due to navigation system screw ups. If the nav system screwed up, kinda by definition the birdy isn't where you thought it was....

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Also, if the motor system fails, your navigation system isn't going to help. Alternately, if you lose control due to a wind gust or an inconveniently located power line, a parachute would be handy.

[dragonstar57]

so can someone tell me what hardware will be needed?

and some instructions/tips? (i don't really have any robotics training) but i am taking multiple robotics related courses in the near future so would like to begin some basic parts of the project (such as acquiring some of the components)

Also, if the motor system fails, your navigation system isn't going to help. Alternately, if you lose control due to a wind gust or an inconveniently located power line, a parachute would be handy.

the parachute seems like a good idea idea but if it hits a power line wouldn't that make recovery kind of pointless?

Edited January 27, 2011 by dragonstar57

[Spyman]

the parachute seems like a good idea idea but if it hits a power line wouldn't that make recovery kind of pointless?

Birds don't seem to have any problems sitting on power lines, why would your copter take more damage?

[dragonstar57]

Birds don't seem to have any problems sitting on power lines, why would your copter take more damage?

birds aren't made of metal and they land on power lines they don't collide into power lines

ps would it be better to build the helicopter from scratch or try to modify an existing helicopter?

Edited January 27, 2011 by dragonstar57

[Spyman]

birds aren't made of metal and they land on power lines they don't collide into power lines

ps would it be better to build the helicopter from scratch or try to modify an existing helicopter?

Why would metal take more damage than birds and why would the copter take more damage from colliding with power lines than simply crashing to the ground?

 

BTW I think that both building a helicopter from scratch and constructing an autobot simultaneously would complicate things more than necessary.

[dragonstar57]

Why would metal take more damage than birds and why would the copter take more damage from colliding with power lines than simply crashing to the ground?

 

BTW I think that both building a helicopter from scratch and constructing an autobot simultaneously would complicate things more than necessary.

the electricity?

all the RC helicopters on the web have a bunch of programing to prevent them from being messed with by another remote I would hate to put the work of building the bot just to have some residual security mechanism make it not work.

so can someone tell me what hardware will be needed?

and some instructions/tips? (i don't really have any robotics training) but i am taking multiple robotics related courses in the near future so would like to begin some basic parts of the project (such as acquiring some of the components)

that would be helpful

*EDIT*: quote syntax error

Edited January 27, 2011 by dragonstar57

[Spyman]

the electricity?

My point in post #12 was that if the electricity don't harm the birds then it won't harm the copter either.

 

They don't get hurt because they don't cause a short circuit between two lines or one line and the ground. If a bird or the copter touches two lines simultaneously the electric current would go through the body and cause damage, but as long as they only touch one line they are safe since the electricity don't have anywere to go.

[dragonstar57]

My point in post #12 was that if the electricity don't harm the birds then it won't harm the copter either.

 

They don't get hurt because they don't cause a short circuit between two lines or one line and the ground. If a bird or the copter touches two lines simultaneously the electric current would go through the body and cause damage, but as long as they only touch one line they are safe since the electricity don't have anywere to go.

then the collision?

[Spyman]

then the collision?

A collision with anything could cause damage to the helicopter, but a wire in a power line is not likely to do more harm than crashing into a large tree, a high building or simply crashing to the ground.

 

My gut feeling is that in most cases a small remote controlled helicopter will only lose control during a minor collision in the air and more severe damage could rise when it crashes down into the ground.

 

A parachute could save the helicoper when something goes wrong but depending on environment it could also make recovery harder, like if the parachute gets stuck on a branch in a tree top or on a TV antenna placed inaccessible on a large building etc.

[dragonstar57]

A collision with anything could cause damage to the helicopter, but a wire in a power line is not likely to do more harm than crashing into a large tree, a high building or simply crashing to the ground.

 

My gut feeling is that in most cases a small remote controlled helicopter will only lose control during a minor collision in the air and more severe damage could rise when it crashes down into the ground.

 

A parachute could save the helicopter when something goes wrong but depending on environment it could also make recovery harder, like if the parachute gets stuck on a branch in a tree top or on a TV antenna placed inaccessible on a large building etc.

it seems more likely that a collision with a power line would involve the rotors and if the rotors hit a thick metal wire either it will damage the engine or cut the wire or both in the case of the power line being cut and the helicopter crashing they both fail to the ground and the helicopter fails a few feet frown a downed power line. that is where the electricity goes through the helicopter (or at least makes recovery very difficult/dangerous

as a unrelated the rest of the post maybe i should arm it with some sort of Nerf like Styrofoam dart blaster or one of those plastic sphere blasters that would be kind of funny

Make sure to keep your autonomously flying helicopters away from populated areas!

why?

Edited January 28, 2011 by dragonstar57

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

why?

Because generally you require FAA clearance to fly automated aircraft over populated areas, and that requires safety testing and regulations. Don't want to crash on anyone's house.

[dragonstar57]

Because generally you require FAA clearance to fly automated aircraft over populated areas, and that requires safety testing and regulations. Don't want to crash on anyone's house.

even for small RC helicopter size craft?

[Spyman]

Make sure to keep your autonomously flying helicopters away from populated areas!

why?

Flying the copter in safe areas removes a lot of potential hazards, prevents unnecessary accidents and limits their consequences.

 

 

We are all responsible for our actions which also includes our pets and property or like in this case our creations.

 

Engineers have to consider the safety of people, property and nature when they build things, and the things need to stay safe even when they get old and might break or even if they are misused or tampered with by someone clueless, in extreme cases they even need to include deliberate sabotage by skilled criminals or terrorists.

 

 

What do you think would happen if your oversized RC helicopter with reinforced razorsharp steelblades, fully able to chop off a thick metal wire, suddenly malfunctions and with the powerful engine on maximum throttle goes straight into the face of a young child?

 

What would happen if the powerline falls down on innocent persons walking by under it? Do you think people depending on the electric power like the outage when the line gets downed? How do you think the owner of the powerline reacts to having to pay for expensive repairs?

 

Even a much much less powerful copter can crash down on the windshield of a car and cause the driver to loose control with loss of life or injury as result. It can also cause loss of property or economy, like if onle the car get wrecked or if it crashes through a window and destroys something valuable lika a famous painting.

 

 

Well a lot of ugly things can happen, try to use your imagination to prevent them.

 

 

it seems more likely that a collision with a power line would involve the rotors and if the rotors hit a thick metal wire either it will damage the engine or cut the wire or both in the case of the power line being cut and the helicopter crashing they both fail to the ground and the helicopter fails a few feet frown a downed power line. that is where the electricity goes through the helicopter (or at least makes recovery very difficult/dangerous

Now I don't have much experience of RC vehicles, but we are talking about small toys here and I hardly think a normal RC copter is anywhere close to even cutting a thin metal wire of a few millimeters diameter, not to mention a thick metal wire that can sustain smaller trees falling or leaning onto them. Also electrical powerlines are mounted quite high and streched very hard, the ends of a chopped wire would snap back and not likely fall down close to where the copter crashes.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Spyman

[Xittenn]

 

it seems more likely that a collision with a power line would involve the rotors and if the rotors hit a thick metal wire either it will damage the engine or cut the wire or both in the case of the power line being cut and the helicopter crashing they both fail to the ground and the helicopter fails a few feet frown a downed power line. that is where the electricity goes through the helicopter (or at least makes recovery very difficult/dangerous

as a unrelated the rest of the post maybe i should arm it with some sort of Nerf like Styrofoam dart blaster or one of those plastic sphere blasters that would be kind of funny

 

 

The likelihood of your device severing a public transmission line of any sort is slim to none! I doubt it would even be capable of nicking the protective casing. Weaponizing your device is not going to help your case for its unveiling in public sectors and is something you should reflect on regularly, qid.

 

 

I should probably add that both of my responses here reflect on the fact that well trained engineers and politicians and so forth had you in mind when they built the system and knew they should add the parachute!

Edited January 29, 2011 by Xittenn

[dragonstar57]

so at what point could it be allowed in populated areas? (it kind of needs to be near people to deliver stuff)

[Xittenn]

Well considering the legislation in most jurisdictions on flying vehicles that are manned .... it's not something that is likely to happen. If it is relatively benign meaning it is plastic and small and meant to be played with and observed for learning purposes I'm sure the neighbors wouldn't gripe. If the blades are metallic and razor sharp or even carbon fiber it's not going to get flight permission without a lot of testing and it would probably require new legislation. Maybe if you live in California, I think they are reviewing their laws revolving around manned flight for the purpose of installing sky car highways, but again these will probably not be over populated areas. Honestly it could probably operate for an ammount of time without any official license but if anything happened or if someone reported it ....

 

Oh and if it was weaponized, even if it was only a nerf gun, this would really bring down any case you had in favor of your endeavor!

 

If it's in Texas it would probably just get shot down right?