what if your soul wasn't powerful enough?

[lemur]

To understand this thread, you sort of have to understand the logic of why the devil wants to possess souls. Presumably, it is because souls have the power to make choices and they can be seduced into choosing evil over good. But what if your soul lacks power? Would the devil give up on you then, or would he still consider it useful for some purpose?

[ajb]

My understanding is that the Devil's main job is to lead you away from Christ. So, if you have no interest in Christ in the first place then I assume the Devil would not be interested in you. Christians may interpret this as the Devil has already tempted you away from Christ.

 

Of course I am no expert, go speak to your local clergy.

[lemur]

My understanding is that the Devil's main job is to lead you away from Christ. So, if you have no interest in Christ in the first place then I assume the Devil would not be interested in you. Christians may interpret this as the Devil has already tempted you away from Christ.

 

Of course I am no expert, go speak to your local clergy.

Well, first let me say that I would not want the responsibility of having this discussion if someone's spiritual development was hinged on it. I just like to explore the (theo)logic of these personified/metaphorical philosophical issues. In response to your logic that the devil is more interested in tempting people away from Christ/God, that makes some sense, but I don't see why the devil would not want to recruit, manipulate, and otherwise indenture souls into the service of tempting people away from Christ/God. According to the logic of Christianity, it might even be easier to indenture non-believers in Christ because they lack faith in eternal life and thus may fear death AND if they lack faith in the Holy Spirit, it could be easier to convince them that God/Christ doesn't really love them or is absent altogether. Thus, in fear and spiritual darkness they may be more susceptible to cooperating in the abuse of themselves and others. Sorry if this sounds like prosthelytizing; I'm just trying to summarize the (mytho)logic of good vs. evil for the sake of the thread discussion.

 

So to respond to your point, I think that not believing in Christ and/or God would make someone easier prey for the devil, but I still wonder what the devil would do with your soul if you're just too spiritually powerless to be an effective servant of demonic possession.

 

 

 

[ydoaPs]

A fiddle of gold against your soul says I'm better than you.

[mississippichem]

A fiddle of gold against your soul says I'm better than you.

 

 

Fiiiire on the hill run boys run...(fiddle, fiddle, fiddle)...Devils in the house with the risin' sun...(fiddle, fiddle, fiddle)...

[Mr Skeptic]

The way I always thought of the Devil's reasons for wanting us to end up in hell was that it was simply part of his hatred against God. How can you possibly hurt an omnipotent entity? Part of loving someone is that you hurt when they hurt, and so you can hurt someone who loves someone else by hurting that someone else. And so the only way the Devil can hurt God is via hurting us. However, I'm not sure how accurate that description would be. That's just a guess at the Devil's motivations, and from reading the book of Job, God and the Devil seem to get along pretty well, like they're old buddies with a difference of opinion.

 

As for the "power" of souls, I've never seen any indication that souls have any power whatsoever, much less that this power could be harnessed in any way. Except of course in fiction.

[John Cuthber]

A fiddle of gold against your soul says I'm better than you.

A fiddle of gold against your soul says I think I'm better than you.

[imatfaal]

A fiddle of gold against your soul says I think I'm better than you.

 

 

[pedant]

A fiddle of gold against your soul 'cause I think I'm better than you

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=cDm_ZHyYTrg

 

at 39-45secs

 

[/pedant]

[ydoaPs]

This looks like some variation of Skitt's Law.

[imatfaal]

I have also heard it called Muphry's Law - which I really like

[Doc. Josh]

Well i suppose if by not believing in christ to begen with than the devil may have bigger fish to fry, Like the priest, alter boy speaking of christ and devil hows the ( rite ) with anthony hopkins?

[A Tripolation]

I've also never heard of souls having any power. Power is God's alone, glory is God's alone, ect ect.

 

Those who have never believed are just presumed to be lost, according to Christianity. Thus, they are already aligned with the Devil. He doesn't have to tempt them.

 

Though I personally feel this is ridiculous. It does make for a good story that Lucifer and God have a wager for the souls of humanity. Whoever has the most wins.

Edited February 8, 2011 by A Tripolation

[lemur]

The way I always thought of the Devil's reasons for wanting us to end up in hell was that it was simply part of his hatred against God. How can you possibly hurt an omnipotent entity? Part of loving someone is that you hurt when they hurt, and so you can hurt someone who loves someone else by hurting that someone else. And so the only way the Devil can hurt God is via hurting us. However, I'm not sure how accurate that description would be. That's just a guess at the Devil's motivations, and from reading the book of Job, God and the Devil seem to get along pretty well, like they're old buddies with a difference of opinion.

 

As for the "power" of souls, I've never seen any indication that souls have any power whatsoever, much less that this power could be harnessed in any way. Except of course in fiction.

Good post. I like it when people can explore theological thoughts in depth regardless of their level of religiosity (not that I know yours but it doesn't sound like total dogma-spewing so that can be a breath of fresh-air in theological discussions). What you're saying about the devil hurting God by hurting "His children" is logical. In fact, I think the logic of satan/evil/sin is that they are opposed to the creation and the goodness of it. So they would logically want to destroy humans as part of the creation.

 

I've also been thinking about the story of Job lately for some reason. I have this fantasy about what it would be like for Job to meet with both of them together after he dies. It's like God and Satan are friends speculating about how Job as a lab rat is going to respond to their experimentation and Job finally gets to meet them both together, his torturer and the gracious father who allowed him to lose everything but then also allowed him to prosper after having suffered through it all. That would be an interesting meeting to watch.

 

 

I've also never heard of souls having any power. Power is God's alone, glory is God's alone, ect ect.

Well, the idea that human souls have power relates to the idea that humans are created in God's image. Also, in the story of Adam and Eve, they utilize their free will to choose for sin, which banishes them from Eden and curses them to an eternity of temptation, sin, and sacrifice to redeem themselves. So most of the other stories that follow that seem to be about humans having the power to choose between good and evil. Eve was blamed for becoming Satan's instrument after he tricked her into believing that God lied to her about the forbidden fruit being deadly. Thus we have the idea that Satan can seduce people into his service. But presumably for Eve to convince Adam to take the fruit, she had to have some soul-power; otherwise Adam might not have even paid attention to her, right?

 

Those who have never believed are just presumed to be lost, according to Christianity. Thus, they are already aligned with the Devil. He doesn't have to tempt them.

But can he use them to seduce others?

 

Though I personally feel this is ridiculous. It does make for a good story that Lucifer and God have a wager for the souls of humanity. Whoever has the most wins.

This is why I am so fascinated with theology. I never understood it for a long time and once I understood the logic, I find it fascinating. It's like a mythological form of social science mixed with philosophy that has coherent logic.

 

 

[A Tripolation]

Well, the idea that human souls have power relates to the idea that humans are created in God's image. Also, in the story of Adam and Eve, they utilize their free will to choose for sin, which banishes them from Eden and curses them to an eternity of temptation, sin, and sacrifice to redeem themselves. So most of the other stories that follow that seem to be about humans having the power to choose between good and evil. Eve was blamed for becoming Satan's instrument after he tricked her into believing that God lied to her about the forbidden fruit being deadly. Thus we have the idea that Satan can seduce people into his service. But presumably for Eve to convince Adam to take the fruit, she had to have some soul-power; otherwise Adam might not have even paid attention to her, right?

 

Satan didn't trick them at all. He told nothing but the truth, even if they were half-truths. They did have God's knowledge in a way. Before the fall of man, they only knew good, they only knew the perfect relationship they had with God. After they disobeyed, they knew what the rest was like. They had an idea of good and evil afterwards.

They wouldn't die physically. They died spiritually. The fruit would make them like God. It did. They know what the world is like outside of utopia.

 

But can he use them to seduce others?

Only is so much as them being "worldly", and Christians succumbing to the id-driven ways of men. The Bible says nothing about Satan possessing people and using them to make Christians falter. And I personally believe Satan tempts no one. He is simply an opposing force to God, driven by pure selfishness, not hatred. Selfishness and indifference-to-others is the opposite of God, not hatred and sin.

 

 

This is why I am so fascinated with theology. I never understood it for a long time and once I understood the logic, I find it fascinating. It's like a mythological form of social science mixed with philosophy that has coherent logic.

 

Indeed. The banishment of Adam and Eve from Eden is an interesting topic.

Edited February 8, 2011 by A Tripolation

[lemur]

Satan didn't trick them at all. He told nothing but the truth, even if they were half-truths. They did have God's knowledge in a way. Before the fall of man, they only knew good, they only knew the perfect relationship they had with God. After they disobeyed, they knew what the rest was like. They had an idea of good and evil afterwards.

They wouldn't die physically. They died spiritually. The fruit would make them like God. It did. They know what the world is like outside of utopia.

You have theological insight! This stuff interests me.

 

Only is so much as them being "worldly", and Christians succumbing to the id-driven ways of men. The Bible says nothing about Satan possessing people and using them to make Christians falter. And I personally believe Satan tempts no one. He is simply an opposing force to God, driven by pure selfishness, not hatred. Selfishness and indifference-to-others is the opposite of God, not hatred and sin.

What about the Lord's prayer about "lead us not into temptation." How else could Satan tempt beings with free will EXCEPT temptation? He can't force them to do his will. I suppose you're technically right about the serpent not lying, since he told Eve that she would not die if she took the fruit and she didn't - at least not right away. I think they were supposed to have eternal life in Eden, though. It's funny, anyway, that you call "half-truths," "nothing but the truth." If half-truths were nothing but the truth, what would the other half be? Still it's interesting about knowing the whole picture as making them like God and at the same time tempting them to explore both sides. How did this cause spiritual death, though, iyo? I have my own ideas about it but I'm curious if yours are different.

 

 

Hatred is oppositional to God in that it is destructive. God seems to get angry a lot but he doesn't get destructively hateful except during Noah's flood, and he repents to himself after that and promises not to do it again. Indifference is a good opposition to love, but I think it's related to hatred in that having to tolerate someone you're indifferent to ultimately leads to hatred. It you cared enough about someone to want to save them (even if you were wrong about what would save them), you would be angry and not indifferent or hateful. It's when you give up on "lost souls" that you become indifferent, and you can eventually grow to hate them out of your own sense of powerlessness to deal with them constructively (I think).

 

Selfishness is not so much the perversion of Satan as egoism, I think. Supposedly, Satan became inamoured by his own beauty as God's best servant that he came to worship himself. This is supposedly what drove him to oppose God, which is logical in terms of wanting to claim a distinct identity for yourself to differentiate yourself from your competitor. Satan just wanted a niche and the only niche he could create that was different from God's creative power was destructive power, I think. It's really just a logic of dichotomy through opposition with creation. The interesting part, imo, is how the egoism (self-pride) of serving God became the temptation to oppose God. In a way, it fits into the logic of "go forth and multiply" except it multiplied destruction from creation by opposition and evil from good, also by opposition, along with separation from oneness of everything (and perhaps beauty from function but that is maybe debatable). It is an interesting approach to maybe very simple/basic (yet pervasively relevant) philosophical ideas.

 

 

[A Tripolation]

What about the Lord's prayer about "lead us not into temptation." How else could Satan tempt beings with free will EXCEPT temptation? He can't force them to do his will.

 

He can't force them. He can't force anyone to do anything. The Bible defines temptation as anything that separates you from God, that pulls you away from him. Casual sex with people you don't care about, partaking in excessive drinking or eating. Not helping others. Vitriol and hatred and curses coming from you. I think the Lord's prayer is more about praying to God for help in not wanting to do all the things that God doesn't want us to do.

Sin is not Satan's property. It's intrinsic in the absence of God.

 

I suppose you're technically right about the serpent not lying, since he told Eve that she would not die if she took the fruit and she didn't - at least not right away. I think they were supposed to have eternal life in Eden, though. It's funny, anyway, that you call "half-truths," "nothing but the truth." If half-truths were nothing but the truth, what would the other half be? Still it's interesting about knowing the whole picture as making them like God and at the same time tempting them to explore both sides. How did this cause spiritual death, though, iyo? I have my own ideas about it but I'm curious if yours are different.

 

A half-truth: I tell you that if you go through the door on the left, you'll die. You would conclude that the right door is the safer route. What I have failed to mention is that you'll die if you go through that door too. Did I lie? No. I told you nothing but the truth. I just didn't tell you the entire truth.

 

In Christianity, only God can bestow spiritual life. Once someone sins, they're dead spiritually. An acceptance of God brings their soul back to life. The Bible also says the Holy Spirit then resides in you. So every time you sin, you're broken and dying. But the Spirit mends you and cures you. Adam and Eve had a connection no other living human has had. They had an Eden. By choosing to ignore God, they sinned. They died. They were more God-like, with free will and a knowledge of all the choices they could make, but they were no longer pure.

 

Hatred is oppositional to God in that it is destructive. God seems to get angry a lot but he doesn't get destructively hateful except during Noah's flood, and he repents to himself after that and promises not to do it again. Indifference is a good opposition to love, but I think it's related to hatred in that having to tolerate someone you're indifferent to ultimately leads to hatred. It you cared enough about someone to want to save them (even if you were wrong about what would save them), you would be angry and not indifferent or hateful. It's when you give up on "lost souls" that you become indifferent, and you can eventually grow to hate them out of your own sense of powerlessness to deal with them constructively (I think).

 

God is quite destructive throughout the OT. Anyways, hatred is in opposition to God in that it's not love, but it's not as bad as selfishness. Jesus preached two rules. Love God more than anything, and love your neighbor more than yourself. Not caring is the worst thing you can do.

 

Selfishness is not so much the perversion of Satan as egoism, I think. Supposedly, Satan became inamoured by his own beauty as God's best servant that he came to worship himself. This is supposedly what drove him to oppose God, which is logical in terms of wanting to claim a distinct identity for yourself to differentiate yourself from your competitor. Satan just wanted a niche and the only niche he could create that was different from God's creative power was destructive power, I think. It's really just a logic of dichotomy through opposition with creation. The interesting part, imo, is how the egoism (self-pride) of serving God became the temptation to oppose God. In a way, it fits into the logic of "go forth and multiply" except it multiplied destruction from creation by opposition and evil from good, also by opposition, along with separation from oneness of everything (and perhaps beauty from function but that is maybe debatable). It is an interesting approach to maybe very simple/basic (yet pervasively relevant) philosophical ideas.

 

Satan was the highest archangel, and the most beautiful angel in all of heaven. He never explicitly states that he desires destruction and Hellfire. He simply wanted to be above God, to be higher than God. My opinion is that he didn't think that humans deserved God's unconditional love. He thought they needed to be tested. And he tested them. They failed. And Satan also failed God because he looked for faults, instead of loving and nurturing God's creations.

Edited February 8, 2011 by A Tripolation

[ajb]

The way I always thought of the Devil's reasons for wanting us to end up in hell was that it was simply part of his hatred against God.

 

That us pretty much my understanding, based on Sunday School a long time ago. The Devil want you to turn your back to God and Christ.

[A Tripolation]

That us pretty much my understanding, based on Sunday School a long time ago. The Devil want you to turn your back to God and Christ.

 

That'a an oversimplification. If you read Job, you'll see that Satan is convinced that humans only follow God because of the rewards.

 

"Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

 

The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

 

Satan then attempts to break Job. It doesn't work. He wants to prove to God that His way of rule is wrong. Satan openly challenges God's rule many times throughout the Bible, in front of the host of Heaven. It is implied that he is moderately successful in planting doubts in some of the angels minds. But he doesn't care about people burning in Hell. He doesn't even rule the lake of fire. That will be his punishment one day.

[lemur]

In Christianity, only God can bestow spiritual life. Once someone sins, they're dead spiritually. An acceptance of God brings their soul back to life. The Bible also says the Holy Spirit then resides in you. So every time you sin, you're broken and dying. But the Spirit mends you and cures you. Adam and Eve had a connection no other living human has had. They had an Eden. By choosing to ignore God, they sinned. They died. They were more God-like, with free will and a knowledge of all the choices they could make, but they were no longer pure.

I interpret "spiritual death" as meaning that you become mired in shame and (self)doubt because of sin, which causes you to either tread through life as a robot or more or less paralyzes you from making affirmative choices, because you have no sense of faith in goodness of any choice.

 

Satan was the highest archangel, and the most beautiful angel in all of heaven. He never explicitly states that he desires destruction and Hellfire. He simply wanted to be above God, to be higher than God. My opinion is that he didn't think that humans deserved God's unconditional love. He thought they needed to be tested. And he tested them. They failed. And Satan also failed God because he looked for faults, instead of loving and nurturing God's creations.

I think you're right that testing people involves doubt which is someone oppositional to faith, but God doesn't simply accept sin because he loves the sinners either. So there's a logic of self-improvement. Anyway, this might be getting to much into theologizing to be welcome by everyone using this forum, idk.

 

That'a an oversimplification. If you read Job, you'll see that Satan is convinced that humans only follow God because of the rewards.

 

"Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

 

The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."

 

Satan then attempts to break Job. It doesn't work. He wants to prove to God that His way of rule is wrong. Satan openly challenges God's rule many times throughout the Bible, in front of the host of Heaven. It is implied that he is moderately successful in planting doubts in some of the angels minds. But he doesn't care about people burning in Hell. He doesn't even rule the lake of fire. That will be his punishment one day.

Another good post. I think "lake of fire" is somewhat metaphorical for the destructiveness of sin and its snowballing nature. So Satan theoretically is interested in seeing people boil-over, so to speak, like with Job Satan would have wanted to see him lose his resilience and "curse God to his face." I think beyond the anthropromorphizing of these philosophical ideas, there is a concept of seeking seeds of good in the bad so as to recognize the positive instead of getting defeatist about everything going to shambles, so to speak.

 

So bringing that back to the OP, can people with a "weak soul" be just as effective in causing things to go to shambles as strong-spirited people with a will to destroy. I.e. would Satan put extra effort into demonizing the weak souled people as the strong ones or would he just not bother with them and concentrate on potential recruits with more prospects for "firestarting," so to speak (reminds me of the Prodigy song, btw, powerful spirited music btw).

 

 

[john5746]

Would the devil give up on you then, or would he still consider it useful for some purpose?

 

The devil uses weak souls to make facebook applications

[Mr Skeptic]

That'a an oversimplification. If you read Job, you'll see that Satan is convinced that humans only follow God because of the rewards.

 

Unless he was just lying...

[A Tripolation]

Unless he was just lying...

 

Yes. There is a possibility that Satan was lying at that particular moment. I think that school of thought isn't as simple or elegant, though.

 

I interpret "spiritual death" as meaning that you become mired in shame and (self)doubt because of sin, which causes you to either tread through life as a robot or more or less paralyzes you from making affirmative choices, because you have no sense of faith in goodness of any choice.

 

Spiritual death is more commonly meant that your soul is tainted, and bound for eternal damnation. Though your interpretation is quite valid. Just speaking as a lifelong Christian.

 

I think you're right that testing people involves doubt which is someone oppositional to faith, but God doesn't simply accept sin because he loves the sinners either. So there's a logic of self-improvement. Anyway, this might be getting to much into theologizing to be welcome by everyone using this forum, idk.

 

I don't understand quite what you're saying.

 

I think "lake of fire" is somewhat metaphorical for the destructiveness of sin and its snowballing nature. So Satan theoretically is interested in seeing people boil-over, so to speak, like with Job Satan would have wanted to see him lose his resilience and "curse God to his face." I think beyond the anthropromorphizing of these philosophical ideas, there is a concept of seeking seeds of good in the bad so as to recognize the positive instead of getting defeatist about everything going to shambles, so to speak.

 

I, along with quite a few theists, believe that the lake of fire is a very real place. Unlike most theists however, I do not think billions of people will be tossed into it.

 

So bringing that back to the OP, can people with a "weak soul" be just as effective in causing things to go to shambles as strong-spirited people with a will to destroy. I.e. would Satan put extra effort into demonizing the weak souled people as the strong ones or would he just not bother with them and concentrate on potential recruits with more prospects for "firestarting," so to speak (reminds me of the Prodigy song, btw, powerful spirited music btw).

 

I don't think souls have power levels. I think that people have different will-powers, and ideologies. So yes, in a way, the immoral are far easier to lead astray than those with pure hearts.

Edited February 9, 2011 by A Tripolation

[lemur]

Yes. There is a possibility that Satan was lying at that particular moment. I think that school of thought isn't as simple or elegant, though.

Plus, the problem is that once you start assuming that Satan is lying in the mythology, the question becomes why he was narrated as thinking a lie without the narrator explicating that it was a lie. Presumably the writers were trying to tell the readers all relevant information for them to decode the theological storytelling.

 

Spiritual death is more commonly meant that your soul is tainted, and bound for eternal damnation. Though your interpretation is quite valid. Just speaking as a lifelong Christian.

Well, as I said this might be too off topic to not start a new thread, but with religious discussion I don't think the administrators care as much. Anyway, I can only tell you that I look at theology as a form of primitive psychology mixed with philosophy/ethics. So when the Christian gospels talk about being reborn and death being the wages of sin, I see this as referring to something similar to a nervous breakdown or some other radical consciousness-shifting experience. I think that shame can result in such an experience, and shame imo is a defining condition of sin as a subjective/reflective experience. I.e. if someone doesn't view their deed as a sin, they don't feel shame and thus no spiritual dying occurs but when they doubt their faith that their deed was righteous, they may grow ashamed and their spirit dies a little as they lower their head, become closed/secretive, avoid others, etc. This self-isolation (or sometimes people get socially isolated for their sins as well) results in a form of social death, which can result in spiritual death as well UNLESS people are "square with God" in the sense that they've prayed and felt forgiveness, etc. Christianity, doesn't give this forgiveness for free, though. You're supposed to dedicate your life to following Christ (i.e. becoming part of the body of Christ, etc.) I think that sort of jumps ahead so something else you said.

 

I, along with quite a few theists, believe that the lake of fire is a very real place. Unlike most theists however, I do not think billions of people will be tossed into it.

Like I said, I think burning is a metaphor that just happens to work really well for describing sin, both the pleasurable/addictive aspects AND the painful spritual/dying aspects. I forget which book it is where the writer says that people should better get married than "burn," and I think this refers to burning with lust, which if you think about it is a form of torture (i.e. intense yet unquenchable sexual desire). It always reminds me of the Johnny Cash movie but I think there's some general logic in it that probably applies to all other sins.

 

I don't think souls have power levels. I think that people have different will-powers, and ideologies. So yes, in a way, the immoral are far easier to lead astray than those with pure hearts.

Right, I agree, but what about weak-hearted indifferent people. I'm talking about people who aren't even strong-spirited in their cyncism/sarcasm about their own indifference. People who are just complacent and don't care one way or the other. Can such people either become passionate about God, some form of goodness, OR evil? Would they have any interest in tempting others into falling from grace, etc.? Or are they just sedated spiritually be some unknown cause?

 

 

[Sedit]

But the older text states the devil is gods adversary.

 

ad·ver·sary noun \ˈad-və®-ˌser-ē, -ˌse-rē\

plural ad·ver·sar·ies

Definition of ADVERSARY

: one that contends with, opposes, or resists : enemy

 

So with that information one would have to assume that the devil does not want our soul after all. What it would appear he wants is to ensure god is not getting it. If there is a soul and it is weak then the devil will more then likely accomplish his goals rather easy and sway the lesser souls from the path of righteousness with the mere mention of material goods. A stronger soul however will find a means of incorperating material and spiritual pleasures into there life as to create a balance.

 

These are the souls that the devil should in theory focus his attention on because he will test them at every turn. The lesser souls have been deemed not worth gods time rather quick but as gods adversary he must ensure god does not get the souls. This would mean that the more spiritual one gets the more they are tested by the devil and god being the supreme allows this to occure because it means he does not waste his time with the lesser souls.

 

Perhaps this explains the large amount of corruption in the higher up in the church system. Being human and not godlike every man has a limit and a price and being tempted more and more as they climb the ranks to understanding of god sooner or later the devil will find that mans price and ensure that soul never meets god.

 

If my logic is correct that would mean little to no souls enjoy the comforts of heaven and they remain in a purgetory instead after death.

[lemur]

So with that information one would have to assume that the devil does not want our soul after all. What it would appear he wants is to ensure god is not getting it. If there is a soul and it is weak then the devil will more then likely accomplish his goals rather easy and sway the lesser souls from the path of righteousness with the mere mention of material goods. A stronger soul however will find a means of incorperating material and spiritual pleasures into there life as to create a balance.

So you're saying that the devil would want to prevent any soul possible from nearing God, no matter how weak. So maybe he would do this by coming up with ways to sustain that weakness? Maybe material spoils would accomplish this by causing weak souls to avert becoming stronger through facing discomfort. Still, I don't know if that would be possible considering that material comfort seems to always increase sensitivity to minor forms of discomfort, which causes people to express spiritual strength in their whining, if nothing else. I suppose if the devil could ensure an endless supply of material or other consolation that would defer spiritual-strengthening, people could be kept consistently weak until death (maybe this is why it says somewhere in the bible that it's harder for a rich person to get to heaven than . . .)

 

These are the souls that the devil should in theory focus his attention on because he will test them at every turn. The lesser souls have been deemed not worth gods time rather quick but as gods adversary he must ensure god does not get the souls. This would mean that the more spiritual one gets the more they are tested by the devil and god being the supreme allows this to occure because it means he does not waste his time with the lesser souls.

Interesting. This is like the evolutionary logic of "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger," but in terms of growing spiritual strength. You may have just unified creationism and social-darwinism.

 

Perhaps this explains the large amount of corruption in the higher up in the church system. Being human and not godlike every man has a limit and a price and being tempted more and more as they climb the ranks to understanding of god sooner or later the devil will find that mans price and ensure that soul never meets god.

That also works according to the theology in question, but in Christian terms it's dealt with I think by the ultimate sacrifice of Christ as the only true son of God. So, according to that logic, anyone who rises through a church system's ranks to become tempted in the sense of Lucifer was tempted by his own beauty as God's greatest servant, still must accept forgiveness and rebirth through acceptance of Christ's death as their salvation. So maybe the highest zealots are the closest to the devil, but they would also be the most poised to receive God's forgiveness and redeem themselves through good-deeds, at least in Christianity I think.

 

If my logic is correct that would mean little to no souls enjoy the comforts of heaven and they remain in a purgetory instead after death.

I find the concept of purgatory interesting; but I think you can see it as partial heaven and partial hell. So maybe all souls are in an eternal purgatory where they infinitely approach heaven and/or hell alternately depending on their actions, but never ultimately reach either completely or permanently.